A small DS buff
Speaking as a survivor main, the DS change was needed, for sure. However, it doesn’t do virtually anything to prevent tunneling (not that it fully did in the first place)
I suggest, in addition to the conditions set so far (touching a gen/totem/healing someone/etc), DS should remove its timer and be active indefinitely until another person is hooked. Some killers are completely abusing this nerf lately and negating any of the anti-tunneling purposes of this perk by just going on massive slugfests, and something really needs to change.
While not a perfect solution, I believe removing the timer is completely necessary now that the conditions are more strict. And if you aren’t a tunneler, this change should not face any opposition from you.
Comments
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The problem with this. Survivors unhooked will get the killers attention and try to loop him because their DS will not go away.
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Have the timer refresh when getting chased and pause while dying, but cut the timer in half so that it can't be abused.
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You don’t have to chase them to be fair. At that point they are a hinderance to the team
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What if they are all the same survivor and more than 1 is injured?
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All they should have done is make the timer deplete twice as fast whenever you are actively on gens, healing, totems, exit gates, etc. Hell, even throw in chests and lockers.
As it is now you can accidentally tap the heal button and completely negate your perk. If a gen is near a window or a totem near a pallet? Watch out!
It was an incredibly lazy change.
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Killers aren't abusing the new DS because objectively DS hasn't changed from before the patch, now you cant use it to gain free progress. It was never meant to be a way to say that the killer can't hook you again until you deem appropriate, it gives you another chance to try and win in chases against the killer. At a certain point the killer isn't tunneling but just doing their job, killing survivors.
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I guess just slug em? That very rarely happens and either way slugging will get you value
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This one time when I was nice to a survivor and didn't slug them when they got unhooked but instead chased the unhooker, and the unhooked survivor actually threw themselves between me and the unhooker and was throwing down pallets and vaulting them over and over trying to force a grab.
It's still one of the more dickish things I've seen. I lost track of the unhooker because of that.
But, anyway, crap like that is why I'm against pausing the timer during a chase. During the main part of the match yeah, it means they're not doing gens, but during the EGC it just means DS will be even stronger. That's also why I don't think DS should remain active until another survivor is hooked, because during the EGC you can quickly end up with no one else to hook.
Unless part of the new conditions also include DS not activating once the exit gates are powered. Then one of these changes might be reasonable.
Although, with DS deactivating when killers hook another survivor, I mean, why would survivors be so eager to put their perk's deactivation in the killer's hands? The killer could damn well abuse that and get around DS entirely just by slugging someone right after they're unhooked and then downing the unhooker. Right now, DS deactivating before the 60 seconds is up is totally in the survivor's hands. Seems like a really bad idea to give killers control over your perk.
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The only thing I would change is it not deactivating when unhooking someone. If you are the only person left and was just unhooked and the rest of your team is either getting put on the hook or down you should be able to at least use if for those types of situations honestly. The endless unhook pick up game lol
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They could just bodyblock.
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This seems like a no-brainer and was what I was hoping would happen. At the very least the timer should paus while you are being chased and slugged IMO. You could say "but survivors could abuse this" but if the kept getting into chase against you that is two survivors not doing anything so...it only hurts their team.
Anyways this would be a good change because as it is DS rewards bad play(kind of) in chase encouraging you to go down.
Additionally I think that DS should remove scratch marks for a few seconds after you get the stun off.
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I play both and i agree a bit. I think the timer should just pause if youre being chased or downed and then deactivate when u work on a gen or heal/unhook someone
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Speaking as a killer main ds change wasnt needed the game is way to easy to camp and tunnel ....only people that complained about wantin perk nerfed were the little bitches that didnt wanna eat perk early game then cry that the perk was to o.p at endgame
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But they are. The common killer main argument is “it’s an anti-tunnel perk!”, but how can it serve that purpose if a survivor is tunneled off the hook but then ignored for the duration of the DS timer before hooked again?
This was already being done, yes, but at least before, survivors were able to progress their goals before being slugged this way. And nobody can argue that tunneling hasn’t drastically increased since the DS change.
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I’m failing to see how this is a problem? If a killer really wants to tunnel, they’d go after this survivor anyway, and at this point the survivor is choosing to be tunneled by acting in such a way.
Conversely, they’re also not progressing gens or totems or what have you. And if you really want, you can choose not to engage them, at that point leaving them to be a hindrance to their team if they’re just trying to hold onto DS.
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If you're ignored for the full 60 second duration then you aren't being tunneled and should be expecting a teammate to pick you up. Being able to progress your goals with complete immunity isn't health in any sense for the game, there always needs to be a risk. Ill say it again, after a certain point the killer isn't tunneling but doing their only objective of killing survivors.
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60 seconds in the context of this game is not very long at all, nor is it taking into account being chased right off the hook for, say, 15 seconds and then being slugged for 45 - or any other random value of time.
It doesn’t matter what number you want to assign to it, this is still tunneling and an “anti-tunnel” perk should be available for this situation, not arbitrarily disabled because a killer decides to make it so.
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Anti-Tunnel doesn't mean you cant be hooked until you deem it appropriate but people cant seem to understand that. DS only helps prevent you from getting put back on the hook in the next 60secs you come off of it. If the killer chooses to prevent DS from taking effect then that's them playing smart around a perk. Since you want to tell me how 60 seconds isnt a long time in the game ill have to remind you that it doesn't take long for survivors to be picked up by their teammates, especially when you have tons of perks to help affect healing speeds. If those options dont look good to you then you could always run unbreakable, soul guard, or no mither and pick yourself up if you're getting slugged.
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And that is killer's choice, if killer wont chase survivor cant do anything. Or just hit survivor and leave and survivors will lose time because for that.
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If you are getting tunneled for the full 60-second duration of DS. And I mean actually tunneled.
Its your team's job to get the gens done and win the game. 60 seconds is 3/4ths of 3 gens if all the survivors are working on different ones.
Also, once you realize the killer is going after you and only you, you can start to play safer, drop pallets early, use lots of them, because the more time you buy getting tunneled, the more gens will get done.
Then if you eventually go down and get hooked, a teammate can swoop in with BT and you still have DS from before, so you can just run to an exit gate that is 99d or open, if you go down you use DS, if not, you escape.
There is no reason to have the timer be any longer than it already is.
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No, this is literally the reason I wanted a nerf for DS in the first place. I shouldn't lose all of my momentum as killer because all the survivors have the same perk.
60 seconds is 3/4 the amount of time it takes to finish a generator. So while you're slugged for that time your teammates had the time equivalent of 2.25 generators to pick you up. (3*3/4=9/4=2(1/4)).
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You know, if killer slugs to avoid DS, then DS does its job. It gives you a free hook state, and that’s huge already.
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Well what could we expect? The mori change also felt also more like a sledgehammer appaoch to the problem instead of doing something that needed some effort like making an invisible stock counter similar to bbq which would make survivor mori-able after all 4 got hooked at least one time.
Not changes feel the same. It took them years to offer an easy fix, seemingly doable years ago but only done after the danger of loosing hurtful amount of players. Moris were changed after the twin chapter Fiasko and ds when killer got dangerously sparse once again. They felt more like appeals to keep player than voluntary changes.
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No. The new version of DS fulfills its role as an anti-tunnel perk.
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Killers are not abusing anything. Survivors are refusing to run the perk and choosing to make the game more of a challenge.
If you touch a gen, you are not being tunnelled. If you heal in a corner, you are not being tunnelled. If you go for a save, you are not being tunnelled.
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I know it's annoying when getting tunneled. But your suggestion just let me know that you never played killer before, or just, stayed around rank 15-20.
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If either of you read at all, you would have seen that I said the conditions are more than acceptable, and all that needs to change is DS having no timer, and lasting either until a) you progress objectives or b) another person is hooked, which is a very reasonable request since you obviously cannot be tunneled if someone else is being chased.
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And now survivors are going to complain that they are bleeding out to death.
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- “a small DS buff”
- Active indefinitely
lol what? If thats a small buff I’d hate to see what you consider a big buff
I wouldnt worry in all honesty. DS will be buffed within the next 2 chapters i’m sure of it. There’s too much complaining for them to ignore it.
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NO
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Not gonna even read what you said but it's a hard No!
Perk got what it deserved, killers legit have ptsd from that perk because it was so broken for so long.
You know it's bad when you go into a match and you're playing around ds only to find out midway through the match or somewhere towards the end of the match that there was no obsession the entire time because that's how bad that perk alone affected the game and how long it dictated a killer into a certain playstyle.
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No, DS should not be dependent on other survivors being hooked. Killers are capable of downing and hooking multiple people.
A killer can be carrying a survivor to the hook you just got farmed off of and now your DS is gone.
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imagine the end game, someone is hooked on the otherside of the map of where the doors are, you unhook them and run for the door, they get downed and can now crawl all the way to the doors with the killer not being able to do a thing about it.
now the 60 seconds timer stopping when actively chased/tunneled, that I dont mind considering you cant do anything atm anyway to progress the match.
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I mean they'll also become very annoying to the killer as well. Jumping in and out of lockers, vaulting and than they'll jump in your way by bodyblocking and if you do down and leave them they'll complain like crybabies about being slugged just like how the op is.
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If your unhooked and the survivor goes after the killer the perk is still being abused. It's being used offensively. That's why killers wanted it changed for so long. If the killer hits you it doesn't mean they are tunneling. Some do tunnel off the hook till death but a lot also don't go out of there way to do it. It just happens. This is why I hated DS because I got punished by it even when I wasn't tunneling. Which is why I like the current version.
As I said in another post. What if more than 1 survivor is playing the same character and the killer doesn't know they are going after the person they just unhooked?
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Maybe it'd help to actually read what I said instead of assuming things and spouting off uninformed nonsense then, friend. Your responses in this thread are laughable considering you haven't even read anything that isn't supporting your own opinion. Calling me a crybaby when you're the one claiming PTSD over a video game perk? Really? Sounds like a bigger real life issue to me lol.
I can understand your point for sure, but what do you propose then?
A scenario I've been encountering all too often post-DS nerf: you're unhooked, killer immediately comes back and comes after you. You're being chased without a chance to even regroup yourself. Killer puts you into dying state, at this point you've burned through anywhere from 15-30 seconds of DS depending on how good your chase is. Killer leaves to kick a gen or go whack someone really quick, then comes back to you. You're hooked a second time without utilizing DS.
Maybe this isn't tunneling to you, but it is to a lot of people, and it is a problem.
AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T/WON'T READ: I AM NOT SAYING IT SHOULD GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS. I am saying some alternatives should be added in addition to make it better serve it's purpose across the board.-
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You can use the following perk to help you in those situation:
Boil Over, No Mither, Power Struggle, Second Wind, Soul Guard, Tenacity & Unbreakable
Your team mate can use those following perk:
Babysitter, Burrow Time, Breakout, Buckle Up, Desperate Measure, Empathy & For the People
The only thing is those perk are not super strong or meta.
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The only change DS needs is to not spawn an obsession and create/relocate the status upon use, just like Nemesis does.
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If the killer hooks someone and leaves to kick a gen. They kick the gen and as of now they have no idea where anyone else is. Then a save is made. Why shouldn't the killer return to the hook? They know for a fact at least 2 people are over there. Should the killer pass up this opportunity or risk going to another gen where there might not be anyone?
It sounds like half your problems are due to bad saves. The survivors could have waited for the killer to be occupied with something else before making a save. The rescuer could run We'll Make It for a fast heal. Someone healthy can try to grab the killers attention. The healthy survivors can rush the gens to punish the killer for not applying pressure. Nothing is a solid solution but you can't tell the killer who they can and can't go after.
I don't know. People complained when they removed infinites, double pallets, added exhaustion mechanic and they didn't undo those. DS has been abused since it's creation. Knowing the devs I won't be surprised if they back stab me because I'm not the majority but I feel the perk is good where it's at now.
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How many times that happening lol. Maybe you had 1 or 2 games like that and you cant say that is problem.
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Ha! No I read what you said and that crap is more laughable then anything.
Oh yea lets pause ds until someone else gets hooked so I can still do whatever I want in the killers face.
If you have time to go break totems or heal or work on a gen after getting unhooked then you're not being tunnelled. If you're getting slugged, then that's more likely just a strategic move from the killer to get people off gens.
Lets say we go with this ds change you want... I go look for other survivors to hook but they all wanna play the stealth game. I can't find anyone but I find the survivor that was unhooked 59.9999secs ago.
Should I ignore them or chase them? So if I down them and picked them up and get d striked, do I deserve that? So basically I'm being punished for tunneling when I didn't even tunnel and it's ridiculous a survivor can have infinite invincibility until someone else gets hooked.
This can cause alot of problems for the killer because those survivors will become annoying and getting in the killers way. I can slug them but that's what you're complaining about even though that's a strategic move.
Ok once again an example, lets say I'm chasing a survivor that brings me to a gen that is being worked on and I decide to break chase to put pressure on the gen and the person working on the gen just got unhooked literally 60secs ago and I down them and pick them up and get hit with ds is ridiculous. You're making the perk even more busted.
Plus it clearly shows that you probably don't even touch the killer role or have any time put into it if you're gonna try and crap on me about ptsd because of a perk that clearly deserved its nerf and been dominating this game for too long.
Complaining about a op perk getting nerfed... Maybe you should drop the training wheels and learn to get better without it.
I've been playing this game for 3yrs and I said ds was busted from the beginning when I first used it and I stopped for a long time.
Ds should be active indefinitely..... Lmao ######### is that 😂😂😂
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"before" the patch. It happened all the time. It was very common for the unhooked to come to me because they had the 60 secs immunity. So if the perk was buffed to be used offensively in any way. It WILL happen again because it was done before.
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Cool, they can use Unbreakable if they don't want to bleed-out.
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yeah can confirm.
I just slugged people for 60 seconds because I didn't want to get ######### DSd.
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Ah the famous: "Lets change DS so the last survivor is forced to be slugged to death!" suggestion.
The simply answer is no because forcing the killer to slug survivors to death isn't fun.
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Making the timer last indefinitely is not a great idea. The simple solution would be to leave it at 60 second duration but make it pause if the killer is chasing you like Pig's reverse bear trap active timers.
Literally Pig has this feature to discourage tunneling / make sure Survivors don't 100% die to their trap (Though it still can be used to 100% tunnel someone out of the game but that's another subject relating only to Pig), they could apply this interaction to DS and voila.
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DS is fine as is right now
Im still running it
But if maybe making another change:
- Reduce the time to 40 seconds at tier 3
- Make it activates multiple times like borrowed time
And adding more things who deactivate it:
the ones who already do it+
- Open/Rummiage chests
- Grab an item from the ground / Leave an item in the ground (grab Franklings toss items...give your key/flashlight to a teammate)
- Stun the killer while carring a teammate (flashlight/headon/pallet/firecrackers)
- Taking a protection hit while the killer carry a teammate
- Save a teammate from a Beartrap/Cage of torment
- Mending & Mending teammates
- Snap out of it (Dr.madness)
- Jigsaw Box search
- Sealing Demogorgon Portals
- Using Devotion Pools
- Wake Up using Alarmclocks & Wake Up teammates
- Crush IDLE Victor
These changes will discourage tunneling, tunnel a guy after being already tunneled, disable weak killer powers, and will feel as a TRUE anti-tunneling perk.
Also, you guys remmember when Obsession perks have different effects beetwen being the obssesion or not? Maybe adding that the obsession have a bigger skillcheck will be nice too.
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If that happens, honestly, eat the stun and tunnel them out of the game. They were really asking to be chased after all, no?
I'm still of the idea that the only change DS needs is to be useable twice per game.
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60 seconds in the context of this game is actually a VERY long time. 10 seconds is a long time. Because a lot can happen in 10 seconds.
I am also confused at how removing the timer would change anything? If they just slug everyone, like you are saying they are doing now, how would it be any different?
Unhooking someone was one of the biggest abuse cases that needed to be addressed with the change though. Survivors with DS would just unhook in the Killer's face, with BT, and the Killer either downs the DSer and takes DS/slugs them and waits or tunnels the unhooked survivor who would also probably have DS on top of the BT.
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Maybe something could also be done in end game? Because if I hook a survivor when all gens are done, and down them again when their unhooked, I don’t feel like that’s tunneling. If I hit another survivor, they get a speed and all get out. If a survivor is slugged with DS, they can either crawl out of the gate or be picked up and use DS. Not really anything a killer can do there
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