Every match should have an obsession!!
As someone who has 2.5k hours playing as both killer and survivor, I was really happy with the DS changes.
But, something unexpected has happened, nearly all games I'm in now have no obsession in. This has leads to what has got to be the most tunnelly patch to date.
I don't blame killers, no obsession, tunnel, easy kill, don't blame survivors, shouldn't have to bring a perk to avoid being tunneled.
Just make every game have an obsession. At least it should somewhat counter this insane tunnel culture that is around right now!
Thoughts?
Comments
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I actually agree with this.
Decisive Strike + Obsession was hands down the best thing to happen to this game in all honesty, I don't care what anyones view of the perk is but having killers scared of obsessions being in the game helped massively with tunneling and if it was never a thing the game would just be a tunnel off hook simulator, and whenever there isn't an obsession it tends to be exactly that, tunneling off hook regardless of what anyone else is doing in the match.
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What do you propose to do 2 weeks after every match is given an obsession, when killers learn it's just a bluff and act as though it isn't there every single game? I think a lot of people forget that both sides are equally capable of reading updates.
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There are plenty of times where there is no survivor created obsession and instead it's a killer created one and the killers still don't tunnel off hook, this already happens, the uncertainty is usually enough to stop instant hook tunneling, which is the main issue with not having an obsession.
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An uncertainty that only lasts so long as ds has a secondary effect (creating an obsession) once that goes away and every match has one, it will take, at most 2 weeks to work out how often ds is actually being brought, which will probably be less than it is now due to it losing its passive effect. At that point, the obsession ceases to provide any uncertainty or psychological effect, and ends up primarily serving to provide extra information on which Survivor is being chased (when it's the obsession) to the rest of the team.
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Yeah. I'd also like the obsession mechanic to have an actual effect on the base game other than the HUD showing everyone when the obsession is in a chase. Maybe the obsession gets to see everyone else whose in a chase?
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I'm not really saying it's a perfect answer, but at least it acts somewhat as a deterrent, you say for 2 weeks, but I mean, it's hard to predict how it may change the aspect of the game, knowing every match COULD punish you with a possible DS is better than knowing 100% the downside doesn't exist at all, as a killer a quick look at the HUD tells all. Either way, DS change good, but didn't think people would start tunneling so much, killers must be aware this will cause DS to be changed again at this rate...
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So you're telling me killers will magically be able to figure out who and who doesn't have DS based on 2 weeks of perm obsession because thy would have figured out how often it is taken or not?
Someone either has it or they don't, no obsession guarantees nobody has it, one obsession means someone could have it.
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I don't think ds will be changed again, I think it's more likely that the rate at which ds is used will go back to near the level it was pre-nerf once people get over the mistaken belief that nerfing ds made it useless.
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It's not magic.
If every game has an obsession, then the only data I have is my own match history. After 2 weeks or so of trying to lightly tunnel and only seeing ds in 2/10 matches (example number) I won't judge the next match as being very likely to have ds. No magic required, just basic pattern recognition. As it currently stands, if as killer I know I'm not running any obsession perks, then seeing the obsession means a much higher chance than 20% that ds is present (personally I'd say 80-90, based on my own experience)
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Basic pattern recognition in a game where survivors are totally independent and can choose what they want... ok, good luck with that.
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But my point, while kind of based on DS, still stands, obsession should be in every match, like you said "the obsession ceases to provide any uncertainty or psychological effect", however, forcing a perk to be picked in order make this happen is outdated, I feel the HUD should always show an obsession, just as I feel someone running no mither shouldn't show up as injured, these are things the have become outdated as the game has progressed over time.
I mean, even if after 2 weeks people notice most games don't have a DS with an obsession, at least it still creates somewhat of a mindgame, compared to a game with no obsession, you automatically lose the psychological effect.....
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Are you denying a meta exists?
Sure people (both sides) are independent and can choose whatever they want, and in ranks 15-20 I'm sure you get some truly weird #########. Ranks 1-5 is a lot more predicable. Don't take it from me, look up the multiple people who have done the work of collecting data on each match they do, showing the patterns emerge.
Of course, if you do truly believe that you can't use past match history to determine the likelihood of what you will face in Future matches, I have to wonder how and why you are arguing for an obsession each match, after all, people who play killer are just as Independent and able to do whatever they like, past trends be damned, so without your own history on how often you have experienced tunneling with or without an obsession, what are you basing your arguments on?
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Just what i think. If the killer wants to tunnel someone he will give it a try and grab you again even if there is an obsession in the match..
@Bearded_Owl If you don't want to suffer tunneling then use DS, if you don't use it then suffer the consequences. I don't get the point of making a thread about this.
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What do you mean 'Are you denying a meta exists?' No, but you're implying that based on whether you face DS in one game can help you determine if there will be one in the next, which has absolutely nothing to do with the meta whatsoever.
'Sure people (both sides) are independent and can choose whatever they want, and in ranks 15-20 I'm sure you get some truly weird [BAD WORD]. Ranks 1-5 is a lot more predicable. Don't take it from me, look up the multiple people who have done the work of collecting data on each match they do, showing the patterns emerge.'I don't think you're understanding these "patterns", there are certainly frequencies of perks but nobody is predicting if their next match has a DS user or not, seeing as there are "multiple people" to look up could you cite the ones accurately predicting whether DS is in the next game based on the gam previous, as that's what you're implying.
'Of course, if you do truly believe that you can't use past match history to determine the likelihood of what you will face in Future matches, I have to wonder how and why you are arguing for an obsession each match, after all, people who play killer are just as Independent and able to do whatever they like, past trends be damned, so without your own history on how often you have experienced tunneling with or without an obsession, what are you basing your arguments on?'What kind of phrasing is this? "If you do truly believe you can't use past match history to determine the likelihood of what you will face in future matches, i have to wonder how and why you are arguing for an obsession each match, after all, people who play killer are just as Independent and able to do whatever they like, past trends be damned" like, have you even read what you've put at all? This makes next to no sense what so ever, I can't argue for obsession each match because the killer can do what they like as well... like what? lmfao.
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The difference being is there is a guarantee of no DS if there is no obsession currently, if there is an obsession always you can tunnel someone but you'll never know if you'll be hit with DS.
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Just run ds.
Most matches had ds in them pre nerf and survivors had zero issues using a perk slot for it to stop tunnelling so what has changed? it still stops tunnelling.
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Although that's true, they still act like DS is there because they don't know if they took off their obsession perk would the obsession still be there. So they act like the answer is "Yes" to make it easier on themselves.
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Just equip DS.
Honestly, I don't see a problem here. Nothing changed for people that played without DS and are used to it.
If you fear getting tunneled, equip it.
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Then grab DS lol. In any case there being an obsession or not its not very relevant to a killer because many builds include obsession perks so most of the times there is always an obsession.. and besides that if the killer wants to tunnel you he will still grab you anyway and risk being hit by DS.
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Love how we've gone from killers being absolutely disgusted by DS and advocating it's change because they want survivors to use other perks to them now telling survivors to use ds so they don't get hard tunnelled off the hook, lmao.
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Love how we´ve gone from survivors claiming that they equip DS only to avoid getting tunneled, to completely avoiding the perk and then complain about it.
Made it just more obvious, that they used DS in unintended ways.
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I would have no problem with obsession beiing baseline. It's still a big risk to not run DS when you aren't very certain that you can evade or outloop the killer. Once he learns you don't have it or if he's hard tunneler and doesn't care, you're still in trouble.
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Well first if all, yeah they should implement the permanent obsession for every trial since it won't hurt or affect anyone not tunneling just like the ds change does not hurt anyone using the perk truly as anti of the hook tunnel mechanic (the effect against tunneling was NOT changed). But survivor should keep in mind that it won't be a long-term solution.
Just to make my point I am going to exaggerate with the numbers. Let's assume over 75% of all survivor ran ds pre change. Now half of them dropped it because they feel it isn't worth the slot anymore. And ones the permanent obsession is implemented half of the rest also drop the perk because they only did for the obsession part as a tunnel deterrent. Now less than 20% of all survivor run it anymore (that's less than one survivor on average per trial). At some point most killer will notice the trend and the obsession will lose it's effect as a placebo.
This is just an overestimate and I personally won't care since it's a long time since I was hit with ds but everybody should just keep in mind that a placebo is only as strong as the substituted reagent.
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I agree with this. It’ll encourage healthy gameplay. Just the fear of someone having DS is enough to avoid tunneling in many situations.
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Completely avoiding it? No just less people using it, nobody is completely avoiding it, this is an issue before the DS change, where killers would tunnel if there wasn't an obsession, it's just a more obvious issue now that less people are running a perk that deactivates if you try and quickly heal your saviour or tap a regressing gen you were hooked next to, good try though ❤️
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I haven´t noticed a difference on my solo matches. Not more obvious than before. Killers still lose 3 gens by the first hook and then try to recover by getting someone out asap. Be it with obsession or without it. No one can blame them for trying to slowdown the match by any means.
But i noticed more people complaining about getting tunneled, when there was 1 or 0 gens left.
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Like deja vu reading that I'm sure you copy paste that 3 gen line lol
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Yeah, this is me just imagining things.
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Damn nice 4k in just over 9 minutes
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I’d be okay with this as long as they FINALLY add a downside to being the obsession. Logically, you wouldn’t want a killer to be increased with you. Thatd be a fair trade off. You gotta take the bad with the good
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Damn nice watching a 10 minute video in 3 minutes! The survivors only died, because their controllers had no batteries left. Otherwise, where is no explanation of them just standing there, afk and waiting to get downed.
You´d have seen that, if you actually watched the video.
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Did you actually watch the video?
The first down he gets he intentionally lets the flashlight save happen he literally looks at the survivor with a flashlight, shakes his head and picks up anyway knowing the save would happen, the second time he downs someone he could have looked into the wall bc he didn't think nea would have made the save with the flashlight but she did, he threw away two minutes of the match for the lulz, try again.
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Sounds like Blood Pact but better.
Ontopic: Yeah sure why not. At least you get more points if you escape/die as obsession.
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Yes, i actually watched it. (not only the first 2 minutes). 7:21 a survivor standing afk at the window and waiting for him to hook, then come back and get downed. 7:38 another survivor standing afk.
Anyway, scott only got a 4k because the survivors threw the game instead of cutting the losses and getting 3 man out. Doesn´t change the fact that he got his first hook after 3 gens were completed.
What is so hard to understand that killers struggle with gens against any group of halfway decent survivors? Don´t believe me? Just wait until the new MMR goes live. Literally every killer streamer i watched during the 24h test, suddenly struggled.
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Watch the video and listen to Scott, he literally says in reply to someone asking how gens are getting done so fast is "because I've not been downing anybody". And also you truly are lying to yourself if you think those survivors who reacted immediately to Scott moving towards them had battery deaths lmao, you clearly don't play killer if you've never had a survivor meme at a window and stare at you. This is, hilarious.
Yes I agree he got his first hook after three gens because he purposely allowed a flashlight save and then didn't look into a wall, how ridiculous dude. Throwing all your pressure for the lulz but three gens got done so survivors op.
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There isn't any legitimate reason I can think of to argue the case against an obsession in every match. The survivor with this status gets extra BP for successfully escaping a trial, whilst a killer gets extra BP for sacrificing.
Combined with the deterant of DS to act as a way of stopping tunnelling, it ought to be standard. I'm also not sold on the idea of "killers calling the bluff" because it's still a bluff that needs to be called. If the killer gets it wrong, especially against a good survivor, then that's a lot of time they wasted.
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The thing is, creating an Obsession would at least give the Killer a choice if they want to take a risk or not. If they do and the Survivor does not have DS, the Killer knows this. If he does not take the risk, it at least gave him a reason to not tunnel the person off the hook.
However, without Obsession, there is no risk involved, most of the time Killers just go for the tunnel, because it is the easiest way to win (and we all know how easy Killers want to have it :) ):
I mean, currently I am even using suboptimal builds on my Killers - if I would like to play scummy and tunnel one person out of the game ASAP, I would stop using STBFL. This Perk currently hinders me more, because it is creating an Obsession. Without this, I would know that nobody is running DS and I would be free to tunnel - which would be more effective than using any Perk.
Does not sound right, eh?
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You're right. I'm obviously a survivor main and think that gens go to fast. That's why killers tunnel someone out. Even with an obsession. Because they struggle to get enough hooks in comparison to the speed at which gens get done.
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The point I was trying to get across is, even before the changes to DS, I feel this should have been a thing, obsession every match, or as someone else stated, just remove the obsession from the HUD and have all skills private.
Whether you are a killer main or survivor main, we can all agree that tunneling is bad, just like gen rushing is. I just thought not shouting at the killer "NO risk to tunnel this match" isn't healthy for the game and a simple change, always having an obsession in the HUD screen, would prevent one of the problems within the game.
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Always having an obsession is like having 4 DS before the nerf. Some killers will be cautious. While others think f it and tunnel the DS user out.
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Maybe it's because I play both sides, but no, I am not offended by either team completing their objectives quickly.
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No, it doesn't sound right that you use suboptimal builds and playstyles and seem to believe that is worth bragging about. Seems weird.
It would take about 2 weeks to get a good impression of how often ds is actually being used. After that? Tunnel city. In the meantime every survivor perk that creates an obsession would be nerfed by the change, and the overall use of ds would plummet.
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Nah, it is just not right that I am better off without using Perks which greatly benefit a Killer (e.g. STBFL on Demo), because then I would know when to tunnel and when not.
And as I said, the Obsession would at least give a risk to the Killer. If they want to tunnel and see that the person does not have DS, they at least took a risk before. But now they can just tunnel freely without an Obsession.
(I mean, let alone that DS does not do anything against tunneling)
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Yes. I am stating (not implying) that if, as killer you play several matches per day over ten days, you can use that data to get an understanding of what you are most likely to face. If in ten days of matches you only see a specific perk once or twice, it is reasonable to believe you are not likely to see it that often in future matches.
Get it?
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If ds doesn't do anything against tunneling, then what risk is the killer taking by tunneling in a match with an obsession? Either ds is such a good perk that the possibility of it (obsession) can prevent tunneling or it isn't. Can't have it both ways I'm afraid.
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Ok, well, not really sure what perks you believe will be nerfed by the change? We currently have 6 survivor obsession perks, none of which would be hurt by it.
Whether you're the only survivor player who feels tunneling isn't a problem, I'm not sure, but adding this may reduce tunneling. I mean, maybe after 2 weeks, as you keep saying, people will pick up patterns, but that is the minority, not the majority I believe!
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You've made 8 posts here, most on your own thread and just figured out how quoting works, so I am going to guess that you haven't been around here much. Once you get over the same 5 users who constantly have the same gimmicks going, you'll see that the opinions on every playstyle are varied across all players.
Or, to put it more simply, I'm far from the only one who doesn't view tunneling as a problem that needs to be removed, and rather sees it as a tactic that can be counted by good players. For evidence feel free to check my own post history where you can see a thread I made "the case for tunneling" where the biggest response I got was from people amazed that I felt the need to point out that the game currently and according to the devs does not and will never "punish" tunneling in any way, even with the pip penalty camping receives.
As far as pattern recognition? Play killer, play enough to get red ranks, then spend 2 weeks there and log what perks you face in Survivor teams. It's that easy, to stay in red as a killer you have to be able to recognize the patterns that emerge as they change the meta. The majority of people who play killer recognize and follow that, which is how they'll know when ds use drops. I can tell you from my own data, for instance that ds has dropped about 50% from teams I face since the nerf. It's the biggest change I've seen to the overall patterns since MoM came in and was nerfed. Clearly from the comments here I am far from the only one seeing that kind of change.
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You are correct, I haven't been on this forum and just learned how to quote (well spotted). I don't come on here cause when people have suggestions, people don't discuss, they just give opinions which they won't change which doesn't make it a discussion forum but just opinion posts.
I'm NOT saying tunneling should be removed or that it is inherently wrong, I'm saying the vast MAJORITY of players don't like it and that this could be a simple way to address it for the majority. Maybe it wouldn't work, but the aim is for all sides to be happy, if survivors gen rush, killers don't enjoy themselves, they switch sides or stop playing, queues take too long. If the only way killers can win is through tunneling & camping, survivors stop enjoying the game, which leads to most solo players leaving and just SWF existing.
It's addressing something most dislike, my last post on the matter as I just wanna play the game and thought this could improve it.
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It's a fine thing to discuss. I just don't believe the obsession every match thing will do much more than give, at most a very temporary change. To actually lower or stop tunneling I think would take one of two options.
1. Every Survivor only has 1 hook state, so as soon as they are hooked, they die. This would make it impossible to tunnel, but also make a terrible experience for the Survivors and end up with matches over far too quickly, so I don't thi5it will work long term.
2. Force killers to only hook someone twice after everyone has been hooked once, and they can only got for the death hook once everyone has been hooked twice. This is a worse idea, it takes all agency from the killer and would end up with teams where one person would just hide all match so no hook states could progress. The killer meanwhile would be practically forced to slug out, which isn't fun for anyone involved.
What I actually believe should be done, is people should just bring ds. It's still a great perk. If you don't have ds there are about a half dozen other perks Survivors can equip to mimic the passive of ds, and still use ds as a threat. An obsession every match nerfs that effect completely and takes that bluff out of the game for Survivors.
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If you want an Obsession every game, just bring an Obsession perk?
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