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Was Killer really that hard back in the day?
I've been following this game since Beta, I say following because I didn't have a PC and purchased it a few months after console release. So I was still around for things like vacuum pallets and old ds. My problem is I've seen others complaining about how easy killer is nowadays and how it used to be much harder in the past.
Other than old mettle of man and the occasional cheater ruining the experience, I don't even remembering complaining about vacuum pallets. Would it because I was still new that I didn't really see it as hard or are just the other veterans exaggerating?
Edit: A lot of people seemed to be misunderstanding me since apparently I didn't emphasize on it enough, so let me just say, I KNOW. I know that killer vault speeds used to be slower, I know that hooks used to not re spawn, I know that there used to be a lot more pallets and loops were stronger, I know that there used to be genuine infinities in the game, I know that killers powers were a lot less balanced and either were too strong or weak with little middle ground, I know vaulting for survivor used to be a lot stronger. I said this myself, I watched over this game through streamers and youtubers while it was still only on pc all the way back from the beta and bought it shortly after it came to console. Trust me, this is not some newbie asking if people are just whining. I simply just don't look back on this time period and wonder how the hell I enjoyed the broken mess, I just enjoyed the game and wondered if it was because I was still new.
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Pallet vacuum was absolutly horrible. It was bassicly a free dead hard for distance at every single pallet.
In the grand scheme of things it wasen't totally broken but i hated it with a passion.
You can't really point to one thing about it being harder for killer in the past cause it's a lot of changes that influenced it. DS was way more impactfull, there were way more pallets, vault speed of killers used to be slower iirc so main buildings were a nightmare, pallets being litterally next to eachother, etc etc ....
DbD is bassicly completly different from when it started
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Yes, it was.
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Mettle of man wasn't a thing yet , imagine two windows at shack, double pallet jungle gyms, recovering exhaustion while running, no entity blocked on windows, when you Sabo a hook it was gone, when you Sabo trappers traps they were gone for the game making him powerless and if they Sabo all hooks the basement was all you had, vacuum pallets were a thing , Ds could be used immediately when going down and the stun was 8 seconds, insta blind flashlights, brand new parts were basically insta generators and if everyone brought one 4 gens popped in 8 seconds lol etc.... I could go on
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I'm here since release and never really noticed any drastic difference in difficulty playing killer besides me improving my killer gamepaly in first few hundred hours. There were terrible survivors that made playing killer easy back then and they're here still now.
When DBD was new, looping didn't even exist and you very rarely saw a survivor who even knew infinites (or windows) existed that much less run them. Later on with streamers teaching players how to do it and how easy it was, we already got a good amount of balance patches and a 3 blink nurse.
A few patches were terrible like the no timing flashlights/pallets patch was probably the hardest time to play killer from what I remember besides running og infinites on a survivor who knew how to abuse them.
Overall, I never had issues killing at any point of DBD thanks to the potatoe survivors.
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True God Pallets: Double Pallets that can't be broken. They created impossible loops that made survivors immortal if they could get to one, and some maps had as many as 3 of those things.
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It really was much much worse. The game was meant to be a stealth game originally; so they didn't expect survivors to be literally untouchable once they understood how to run- so the consequence was that the game had to be gradually re-balanced and re-designed over the next several years.
This is a process that is still ongoing even today with the realm reworks.
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First release of DS was extremely bugged and didn't work at all. We hooked non-obsession normally and dribbeled the obsession or evaded them.
Also the stun was shorter and enduring countered it. It was very strong when it worked but there were far more ways to evade it.
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Just imagine killer shack with 2 windows and fast valuts no matter what while killer vault animation was 2 times longer.
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On release there was a few things that were getting in the killer's way
- The maze tiles (jungle gyms) were denser and thus had more walls. Additionally, some could have more than 1 pallet active at anytime.
- What we call loops now were also denser making the loops longer, sometimes pallets would spawn literally less than 4 meters from each other
- Survivors could fast vault from any angle even from a standstill by just holding shift. There was no such things as window blockers or bloodlust either, and many windows that are blocked now would of been open. Imagine for a moment, a Wretched shop where all 4 windows were open ALL THE TIME.
- Hooks that were sabotauged would not respawn.... EVER. You think slugging is too much of a thing now? Slugging always happened back then as your hooks were always gone. Deerstalker was almost mandatory.
- Light offerings were a thing back then, and when stacked with fog could make it impossible for killers to see.
Just to name a few things. You can do some searches for darkness and fog offerigns as well as "infinites" and find lots of youtube examples
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Gonna be really honest
No it wasant
Looping did not exist at all, was like drifting in mario kart wii, you didnt know how to do it, i didnt know how to do it, and no one in your friends know how to do
So it was basically everyone running in an straight line trying to find an pallet
it was like 0.5% of the playerbase that actully know what they was doing
But if you actully finded someone that know how to abuse ( thing that i never have finded lol ) you would probably lose
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Yes it was. I'll presume you're talking about 2016-2017ish. I'll write a list:
- Bloodlust didn't exist
- Killers vaulted windows extremely slowly
- Infinites existed.
- No window blockers
- Decisive Strike could be used whenever picked up. Killers would have to juggle survivors to a nearby hook to avoid the stun.
- Jungle gyms had 2 windows, 2 pallets.
- Vacuum pallets were a really big problem. Imagine trying to catch a survivor at a jungle gym with 2 pallets and 2 windows. If you weren't RIGHT behind them, they'd just vacuum to a window/pallet.
- Old BT. Protected the unhooker and the hooked survivor.
- No regression on gens.
- Old sabo. Hooks wouldn't respawn, you had to slug survivors to death. Iron Grasp was a requirement. Agitation also just to make sure you could make it to the basement. Also you're going to want to bring Brutal Strength and Enduring because of all of the pallets.
- Instant flashlights. Carrying a survivor? Well you could be blinded in a few miliseconds, with basically no time to react. Say bye to the survivor.
- Instant Medkit addon. Instant gen (Brand New Part).
- A ton of pallets
- EGC didn't exist. Meaning, if a survivor stayed at an infinite. You basically HAD to quit or AFK until they left, if they ever did.
- Pickup animation used to be really slow. Easy to line up flashlight saves.
- Trapper used to take like 5 seconds or more to place a trap. His traps could be saboed and would never return, making him an m1 killer.
- Gen speeds used to be REALLY, really fast.
- Hatch stand off existed. Who will press M1 first?
Note: Not all of these things existed at the same time. But I've listed a bunch of stuff which made life as a killer miserable back in the day. I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff I missed, too.
Not to mention us killer mains back then had to put up with comments from a certain lead developer back then saying (and I paraphrase) "you have to be so good to do anything resembling, infinite juke... most of the time they waste a few seconds... MAYBE a minute".
Source: Was a killer main during this time.
Edit: Also I might add more to the list as I think of them.
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Oh god, I had forgotten about the original McCote meme that we made him eat and never forget. You know how we say "Pretty good job so far" now adays? Back then it was "I mean, you have to have skill to pull off anything resembling an infinite". My god, we never made him forget that back then, especially once we started showing the devs the video evidence that true infinite loops really did exist in the game back then.
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I agree with you most of the time but on this one I would have to say that saying "not by much" is a flat out lie lol nowadays it's a walk in the park compared to 2016
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I was watching an old Admiral Bahroo video just now and got reminded that Exhaustion used to NOT be a thing and Sprint Burst was on a 20 second cooldown. Can you imagine dealing with a free sprint every 20 seconds as a killer?
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@Kebek did you seriously just say looping didn't exist? Lmao I'm sorry but what game were you playing ? I've been here since release also
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If you think killer is underpowered now then killer back then was blatantly unplayable
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I know right!! Lmao 🤣 people gave almo ######### for saying object is fine but what about Cote saying infinites were balanced and took skill?
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I'm aware of all of this. Like I said, I followed the game since beta. Some of what you mentioned was still around when it got released to console. It's not ignorance that makes me post this, but rather the fact that it never seemed that bad at the time and looking back I can acknowledge how poorly designed it all was but I have no lingering emotions.
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It didn't exist in a sence that basically nobody did it. First month of DBD I rarely saw anyone looping at all. Survivors just run at a pallet, sat there waiting for you and got hit before even dropping a pallet and those were the better ones who knew they can throw down pallets. That happened a lot. There was an occasional looper who kind of knew what to do but even those were really bad compared to loopers we have today.
Besides, once you caught someone once, they almost always died on the first hook and then you killed of the rest with NOED if they managed to finish gens.
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I can never find the originals, yet I uploaded two videos about him saying infinites are a mind game. Second one is a bad edit, but here they are in all their glory:
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I'll admit I wasn't a god at the game or anything and I probably still am not but I started looping like 2 weeks into playing because I realized the weaknesses the killer side had fairly quickly like how long it took them to vault in a chase and how easy it was to stay in one area with like 3 times more pallets back then , but I'll agree with you on the part where if you got caught you were basically dead from a real facecamp where you couldnt unhook from the sides and BT or ds didn't exist yet so it was a bad situation for the survivor on hook
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Pallet vacuum, 2 windows at shack, 2 pallets everywhere within 10 meters of eachother, pre nerf DS. Vault vaccum. Instea gen, insta heal, pre nerf BT, pre nerf exhaustion, pre nert MoM, vault vacuum, no entity block, infinites, fast vault no matter the angle
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Clearly you can't read.
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It's because you weren't in the game during it , I'm usually not a rager in any game but this game literally made me rage when I played the killer side back then because I was a killer main that's what attracted me to the game was I loved horror but had never seen it in a game in this sort of way of course I've played old school games with the horror vibe but this was different, this is the only game I ever picked my keyboard up and smashed it to pieces and walked away , ive only done it once in my life and it was this game that pissed me off that bad to actually do it.
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I don't know much about survivor experince from early DBD as I played only killer, started playing survivor at feb 2017 until then I never played almost any survivor games besides a few early matches to see how they see things.
But from what I remeber, I didn't have problems killing survivors as killers had a lot of broken ######### too, not as broken as the survivor ######### but quite nasty as well. Honestly, it's been so long that it's hard to recall properly but I feel like it was just played so differenlty from what we have today.
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The game wasn't exactly in a healthy state when I started playing too. Just that the infinites were no longer technically infinites and could only just run you for a long period of time. I was still around before EGC, with vault speeds being incredibly slow, vacuum pallets, insta blinds, etc.
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I totally agree this game had to be out on console for a year at least before exhaustion was nerfed
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Thinking back I'm honestly shocked this game didn't die back then I think the uniqueness is what drove this game to where it is because there was nothing like it out there.
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I KNOW. I know that killer vault speeds used to be slower, I know that hooks used to not re spawn, I know that there used to be a lot more pallets and loops were stronger, I know that there used to be genuine infinities in the game, I know that killers powers were a lot less balanced and either were too strong or weak with little middle ground, I know vaulting for survivor used to be a lot stronger.
title
"WAS KILLER REALLY THAT HARD BACK IN THE DAY?"
seems like you already have your answer... :p
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Clearly you misunderstood what I was getting at and only took a portion of what I said and ignored everything. I completely understood that the game was poorly balanced back then, however too many people lately have been complaining about Killer being "too easy" now. I made this discussion because of the fact that back then it never felt "unfair" even with all the unbalanced mechanics, what I was asking for was not "what was broken with the game" but rather "did everyone think it was broken" because I personally didn't. Hence the title, because I didn't find it to be hard and wondered if others felt the same. But go ahead and be a smartass and ignore the point I was trying to get at.
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They only started balancing properly in 2018 in my opinion. Even then it's just sometimes good choices and sometimes ones that make no sense.
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you are literaly listing reasons why the game was harder back then, and then agree that the game was unbalanced.
yet you are trying to downplay how hard it was by saying you personally was fine with it?
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There were things that benefited killers too. That's besides the point though because yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The game was incredibly broken and it's a miracle/curse that it managed to survive its early stages and I'm saying that it was genuinely fun and enjoyable despite how badly killers had it back then. With everyone saying it was harder back then out of nowhere because of killers are apparently getting too much love I wondering how many agreed with me that the game was still enjoyable despite everything. Not sorry if that offends you.
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Take a good survivors from today and place them in a version 5 years ago. The killer wouldn't stand a chance.
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That's just because we're all used to the game now, a billy main going back 5 years could destroy even the best group of survivors. Hell even Nurse who wasn't all that great back then in my opinion would be able to destroy.
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Nah, you dribbled that survivor like a basketball until you slam dunk them on a hook XD
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Nope, Billy wouldn't stand a chance. Nurse, depending on the survivors.
Vacuum pallets, any angle fast window vaults. Double pallet jungle gyms. Old jungle gyms. Actual infinites.
Nurse only has a chance if the survivors don't hold M1. Remember, no gen regression.
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Nah man, billy was stronger back then, he had so many techs to fly through the skies and get places he shouldn't be. Nurse had more blinks back then but they were much shorter distance, they'd be easier to counter. Plus old billy had speed and insta saw builds so he could work around those loops.
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entirely depended on the survivors.
if they had any idea of what they were doing, yes. killer was unwinnable (unless you were nurse ofc, which at that point in time was even more busted than she is today).
there were literally windows where the survivors were entirely untouchable. the upstairs section of ironworks of misery was one of those - if the killer went around, the survivor jumped back through the window and if the killer vaulted the window the survivor just ran around and beat them to it again. there was no winning for Wraith or Hillbilly or a Trapper who didnt have a trap with him (which at the time were the only available killers, mind you)
but there were also a LOT of survivors who had no clue what they were doing, so killers still got kills.
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Depending how far back you go, there was no Nurse.
Gens back then were 70s none regressing. You tell me a Billy can down 4 good survivors before they can pop 5 gens with the amount of BS was in the game back then?
No sir, survivors were lazy af back then. They wised up every time something broken was taken away. Give it all back and 0K would be the norm.
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Haddonfield with Balanced Landing
...Where the stun removal was PERMANENT
That's about all I have to say lol
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The game is easier and at the same time not easier for killer.
We don't technically have infinites any more (some still do exist for the 110% killers) and we don't have pallets directly next to each other any more but... now we have "pathing/routing" where the pallets and jungle gyms can be connected together because they are still to close. Most loops have zero mindgame and the devs are adding more and more pallets.
We replaced infinites that a slug could do with looping that requires some effort, but if you get good enough and cheat (stretched rez) are just as bad and can't be countered by many killers.
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The start of the game had its problems for certain. Infinites where awful, self care was OP as hell. Hook sabo lasted all game. Pallets littered the landscape. Traps could be saboed. But...hook hang time was only 30 seconds per stage instead of a full minute. So survivors would die quicker. Of course for survivors that meant camping was even more annoying. SWF didn't exist, and that was just a positive for everyone. :D Survivor hitboxes where the same size as killers, so looping wasn't a thing. And pallets didn't hit a killer till midway through the animation, so trades where a lot more common if a survivor was out of position. It was a different time, but honestly it wasn't all bad. I think the game right now is in a better place mostly, but there are some things I miss from back then.
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Yes. I still have nightmares of standing on top of a hatch for over an hour just to grab a survivor. The horror- THE HORROR!
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Spirit didnt exist during the dark times
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I miss the 2016-2018 years, the kills killers got were deserved. Survivors had decent maps and perks to use. Today kills are handed over for free. Every 10 seconds someone is on the floor. That's not Dead by Daylight.
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Sluzzy welcome back! I see you're still you.
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It wasn't really awful since 99% of survivors were literally running into walls and dropping pallets when they heard TR.
Although if you met those who were playing at least decently, you were bound to lose unless you were playing nurse. Although even nurse struggled against bs things survivors had in those days
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yes
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We kept juggling the survivor to avoid the stun. At least that is what I used to do.
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