So why is this update just survivor buffs and killers nerfs? lol
Tons of good perk buffs for survivors, meanwhile useless perks still being useless for killers and Killer nerfs to Freddy and Demo. I'd be more okay with Freddy nerfs if Gen speeds were remotely addressed but of course they aren't. Meanwhile why did Demo gets nerfs at all? The "Buffs" were pitful meanwhile you nerf his best add on for no reason? Are you drunk?
You already failed to buff clown, he still sucks and now you did the same with Demo except maybe worse since his best add on was nerfed.
I play both sides, I want this game to be balanced and fun. As a survivor I want gen times fixed so my games aren't black pips because every game is in and out over and over again. I want gameplay. As a survivor I want to see more killers, yet here we are nerfing freaking Demogorgon for some unknown reason while also nerfing Freddy because of his slowdown but without addressing gen speeds being too fast?
As a survivor I will def be abusing the new OoO rework because it just sounds stupid busted with my Spine Chill and Resilience...insane gens speeds going to be even faster meanwhile I get two ways to spot the killer. Not to mention Luck Break with Iron will is also going to be nuts.
What do killers get? Zanshin Tactic buffs... lol. Garbage perk still garbage.
Just super disappointed in you guys, why can't you just give killers buffs that need it? No one asked for Demo nerfs, I think most people wanted to see straight out buffs so we can see this cool killer more! Undectable is so useless on him because his footsteps are as loud as an elephant, make it so you can't hear him when he's undectable please. That's a REAL buff.
Was really looking forward to Demo buffs, now I'm just sitting here disappointed again. Was disappointed with Clown changes and now I get to be disappointed with Demo changes.
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Well they nerfed DS. So now to compensate survivors for this inconvenience, they buff a ton of survivor stuff and nerf killers.
Makes sense, doesn't it?
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You forgot to mention they nerfed Twins too. Also I’m not surprised this is a mainly survivor favored update. After the DS nerf I knew killers were in for hell. Just so everyone knows if some long requested survivor tweak comes out you better expect the killer side to receive some nasty unnecessary nerfs after.
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Map reworks nerf survivors stealth options.
But since most people, killers and survivors alike, like the game best for running in circles, they simply ignore that fact. Only those of us who like the game better as a hide-and-seek game are impacted by that nerf. That doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
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lol ds wasn't nerfed. it's functionality is the same as the pre change. they just nerfed the ABUSIBILITY of it. lol though they did buff a few killer things but nothing as big as they buffed survivors.... though i disagree with the change of small game to no longer ping killer traps!
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In survivor eyes its a nerf. Just like the other 2 "nerfs" DS received in its history, that all made it stronger.
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I think the update is neutral in general...but there are a couple of potentially very bad things killers will need to face with the update.
I think the thing that concerns me the most is the Lucky Break+Iron Will combo, because it seems too good for no good reason cuz you're essentially just rewarding survivors for messing up and getting injured.
The Kindred + Open Handed one is the worst thing in the update I think. It legit provides wall hacks for the entire team while at 32 meters from a hook. 32 meter radius is a big sphere to have wall hacks on... especially bad on maps like the Game with multiple floors. You'll essentially be unable to mindgame anyone at that distance from the hook. Which I think is unacceptable. It's way too much distance for wall hacks.
Aside from that it's some good things and some meh things...
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Survivor players have nerfed it by not running it anymore because it's no longer an abusable shield. It does what it says on the box now.
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And bt wasn’t buffed. If you’re not near the hook to won’t see a difference
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So, if someone gets unhooked, runs away and then tries to heal themself, just to get downed and uses ds, that was abusing it? I think this is a far stretch.
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So, it was a nerf, very obviously. The functionality of it's usage was harshly changed (for good reason). Regardless of them changing the "abusable" aspect of it, it's still a nerf, as it isn't as strong as it was.
Also, are you trying to say that the DS change to being 60 seconds is stronger than it always being active, regardless of hook state...? Because Idk what planet you're living on if you think that.
Sure, dribbling was removed, but after 4 drops, you lost the survivor anyway. Dribbling only worked when you were close enough to a hook to get away with it.
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Please don't pretend this was the only way DS was used.
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Did... Did we read the same patch notes?
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But they did. Hex perks now keep their stacks.
Meanwhile survivor queues are still long and they can´t figure out why.
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Well lets see
Freddy Nerf
Iri head nerf
Twins nerf, with some iri add on buffs of like 18 seconds
Demo nerf
and perk buffs, with like 1 survivor nerf to soul guard which realistically will never come into play
Seems fairly survivor sided to me... am I forgetting something?
OH WAIT, Zanshin buff. yeah you are right totally killer sided how could they buff the most OP perk in the game. Killers are gonna start 5king at this rate.
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I dont. And i agree with the nerf (i never used ds anyway). But those things happened, and claiming only its abusability was nerfed is simply wrong. The perk itself was nerfed, because this (in my opinion legit) situations were nerfed too.
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Yep, I was waiting for this one to appear
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I kinda agree and disagree. The abusefulness has definitelly been removed. But it deepened the facecamping issue. If the killer is facecamping/proxy camping, there is no workaround anymore. Worst is facecamp + slug. You cannot get 1 for 1 anymore. Now you can get 1 for 3 easily. This heavily punishes you for rescuing other survivors. The only small buff I'd maybe give to DS now is for it to deactivate after a sucessful rescue, not during the rescue so you can at least attempt a facecamping resuce and not get punished for it.
And I'm kinda confused on how the new Object of obsession works. It feels like the text doesn't match the functionality. I'll have to play it more to understand it. The Iri Huntress addon nerf was ok-ish. I'd maybe prefer it to instantly down a survivor if they get hit by the hatchet at a certain distance, like it activates for the Deathslinger. But we'll see how it goes. I'm thinking they were going along the line of nerfing experienced killers with it. But all other changes are ok I guess. The one I really like is Small Game. This combined with Inner strength can easily replace Detectives Hunch and it could help me calculate how many more totems I have left.
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It has always been like that.
Whenever a killer perk gets nerfed. It gets nerfed hard and usually never recovers.
Whenever a survivor perk gets nerfed. It gets the nerfbuff treatment. Taking something away from it and buffing it hard from a different side. Just look at BT. It originally also protected the unhooking survivor. But only once and you could trigger it by accident. They nerfed it by removing the protection for the unhooking survivor and then buffed it by increasing the amount of times it could be used.
Or DS. Killers originally could dribble survivors to the hook, because DS originally triggered on the first down. First they reduced the amount of times a killer could drop a survivor, then they removed the stun reduction of Enduring, before finally "nerfing" DS to the weaponized version we had until a few weeks ago.
The killer meta is constantly shifting. Because killer meta perks usually get hit hard and killers have to adapt. The survivor meta hasn´t changed in years. The 5 most used survivor perks on all platforms are the same as 3 or 4 years ago.
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you are funny... that is exactly what DS was to be used for. not sitting on the gen next to the hook you were just on for 1 minute while the killer decides what to do with you as you try to bait the killer to grab you off of it. hmmm ok i have 1 minute of invulnerability because the killer can't pick me up what so ever, a gen takes 80 seconds to do solo so i'll sit on this gen for that 1 minute or close to it and it'll be 3/4ths done or so when i leave it. meanwhile the killer can't do anything because three of the survivors all have ticking DS clocks and the 4th is dead now. what is left ? you say slug em? well time the locker jump and the attack turns into a grab and blamo they get ds'd becuase they deserved it.
Yea keep making it about the real thing when the abuse was rampant and then WHINE when the abuse is 85% stopped. great logic there.
the functionality was not changed, just the unanticipated uses of it were changed. the functionality was to deter someone from being tunneled down without another second chance action with in 1 minute. it was not meant to be any time the killer picked up the survivor, it's intended use was NOT being followed and that is where you nerf logic fails. you use the words you are supposed to but you left out about the part of the fact that it was being exploited for a slip in how it was coded, not intended but there. It was not supposed to be the killer picks survivor onto shoulder but it was supposed to be killer DOWNS the survivor then PICKS them up off the ground IN THE DYING STATE. look to the way DS was done before the change before, when it didn't require a hook state to activate, the survivor was down and if they were the obsession the killer faced a ds check (well survivor had to make it) upon being picked up, not grabbed off the generator it was from the dying state. Lets not mince words, this was not a nerf but removal of unanticipated uses of the perk.
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I am not sure what you are talking about. We both agree that the use you discripe was an abuse of the perk and thats why it needed a nerf.
However, the situation i used as an example was also not rare, and is a valid use, at least in my opinion.
YOU, however claimed, that the perk wasnt nerfed, just its abusability. And thats where we disagree, thats why i used a valid situation that is still nerfed as an example.
It was nerfed, and to me, a little over the top. Healing yourself should in my opinion not deactivate the perk. Unhooks, gens, totems, yes, they should. Also, i belive it should be usable after every unhook, not just once.
Not make stupid claims and people might not disagree with you, when they basicly share your opinion.
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Should have left demo rat liver alone and kept bt how it was or changed it so it could detect stealth killers but not trigger if the killer isn't actually near the hook as egc is gonna be problematic.
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alright before this "NERF" as you call it DS would allow a player to come off the hook and at rank 3 have 1 minute protection from the killer putting them on the shoulder. so as you put it they run away and killer comes along 55seconds later downs the unhooked one and picks them up blamo DS. (this is what you said with a bit of added info to put it into perspective). now take it's current "NERFED" form the survivor comes off the hook, runs away and 55 seconds later killer downs them and picks them up, blamo DS. there is no change thus no NERF.
How ever what happened from the point of DS 2.0 to DS 3.0 (we are at DS 4.0 I believe) the condition got unintentionally changed from a survivor being picked up from the dying state to being the survivor being placed on the killer's shoulder (because it would not ACTIVATE till the survivor was on the ground) so what happened from 2.0 to 3.0 if you sat on a gen and the killer grabbed you off of it, grabbed you out of a locker, off a chest or totem you'd face a DS strike, so survivors would use it to see how the killer responded. This unintentional change was becuase of the point where the perk activated in 2.0 it was in the dying state, in 3.0 it was being pulled off the hook. thus what you said was not abuse and I never said anything about it yet you did, I was referring to the abuse where survivors would jump on a gen to pull the ds trick.
Thus this was not a NERF since the intended aspect of DS was never to protect a survivor on a gen, totem, chest or even in a locker. how ever the devs decided that they wanted to keep some of this in and left those things without a counter in the perk.
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the problem with camping (and tunneling) is many fold, one is the multitude of definitions you encounter with these terms but the problem most people don't realize is that these two may not be the best game play for the killer, it may not be the most fun for the one hooked, but they are not restricted from use per the game rules. only the player's handbook for killers makes this a bad thing. The best play for the 3 remaining survivors is to get on gens and pop them ASAP, to allow for the 2 minutes the hooked person is being camped and get them out. it sucks if you are the one that this is done to but hey that's life next time it may not be you. the reason it turns into another 1-3 kills is becuase the people want to try and save the player and they go in without thinking and blammo there is the 3K or 4K because people were being silly.
The want to get everyone out is strong and I can attest to that myself but sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. (YES I quoted SPOCK!) There is no specifically toxic perks or toxic builds, just what people don't like that much. I'd call the current survivor meta "TOXIC" but that's my opinion, I'd also call intentionally rapid click of flashlights toxic but honestly that is not beyond my opinion along with others. The only time something is truly toxic is when that is done to intentionally be "TOXIC" this communitity is all about us vs them. well the us vs them is driving the killers away from the game and survivors are suffering for that in their queue times. we have to stop this or else the game will go to no killers and no one getting games unless they put automated killers in and that's not as fun.
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You mean like every update?
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Trickster buffs, OoO nerf, Demo buffs, Huntress buffs, key nerf, twins buffs, soul guard nerf, BT nerf, Zanshin buff, and the Devs official announcement that they absolutely hate solo que. Also called them tying a totem counter to a mediocre perk.
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I'm not mincing words. DS was not made with the intent of being anti-tunnel. The functionality was changed with it's rework, but there is NOTHING saying it wasn't working as intended or that would be called a bug or exploit. You're the one trying to bend words to fit a narrative here, not me. If it "did more than intended", then it isn't working as intended, which it was. It did exactly as it was coded to do.
The devs didn't like how it performed in a match, so they changed it to how they would like it to perform now. Just like they did with the first rework.
As for original DS nerf you brought up, the obsession did not need to wiggle to DS. Anyone not the obsession only needed to wiggle 35%. That is still stronger than the 1 minute rework. Having DS at ALL times, regardless of needing to wiggle for 5.6 seconds, is infinitely better than only having it after a hook state and for a minute.
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if they change ds now even a little bit,every killer will quit for ever. Bt in my opinion is that close to being the new meta uncounterable perk,and they shouldn’t make it past the ptb
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did you play during that time as the non obsession ds wielder? I will tell you 35% of the wiggle bar was not fast enough to prevent a hook. this is why it was changed, plus people whined it made them a target so that's why it's still 25% for everyone even when you put in the DS perk yet it still says it increases your chances of being the obsession.... I didn't mince words the change from ds 2.0 to 3.0 is much stronger because enduring no longer helped mitigate the stun time as it did before, if it was within the egc and a door was open then it wouldn't matter unless you were so far away from the door you'd not make it in time after the ds or the crawl out. much more powerful in how it was wielded plus the unintended side effect of if you were pulled out of a locker, off a gen, off a totem, chest you got to use it where as before you could not use it as such. so looking at DS 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and now 4.0 it shows it's full anti-tunnel functionality that the devs said in their own live stream(s) that it was intended to be.
you say the devs didn't like how it performed in "a match" as if one game proved the undooing of the perk. no it wasn't that they just had nothing else to do to hurt killers at that time honestly that would not be a blatant WE ARE SURVIVOR oriented sign to hang around their neck. I love the devs, I wish they would admit how they are though instead of lie about it everytime, I can respect people with a stance even one i don't like but I honestly have lost faith in the devs to be fair between killers and survivors.
4 survivors required to start the game 1 killer, sure they want to keep the 4 survivors playing and paying for stuff, but if you look past that if you loose 1 killer that means 4 survivors have to wait for someone to be free. 10 killers, that's 40 survivors that have to wait, 100, that's 400 survivors that have to wait, 1000 killers leave that's 4000 survivors that have to wait. though simplistic it shows the fallacy of thinking the survivors are the group to keep, it's the killers so the survivors can enjoy short wait times and all keep coming back. now if you loose 4 survivors 1 killer has to wait, but the fun fact is you have four killers, and you have 13 survivors to match together, what will happen is that 3 killers get groupped up quickly and one survivor and one killer waits for 3 more survivors. alright those 3 groups of 4 survivors have a survivor die early in the game say 3 minutes in or on first hook, these 3 early out survivor fill in the gaps in that one waiting killer lobby. so killer is not as affected by survivors leaving the game as much.
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OoO buffing repair speed even if you're not Obsession is ridduclous. Killer has any aura reading perks, OoO gets buffed, rip Aura reading for Killer BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE, Lucky Break means survivors are Ghosts so killer needs aura reading but if there's an OoO player you can bet your sweet ass they'll have LB and then they can combo with Resilience to buff being injured... I don't wanna add a toolbox to the mix but let's add a toolbox. Now multiply this by 4 cause every surv could run the same build. How do you think this match will go?
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They nerfed undying, so the DS nerf was more than justified.
Undying is now much weaker, DS on the other hand does exactly what it should have ever done: Only prevent tunneling / re-hooking again and not help you play recklessly.
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there are killer perks that do not reveal the survivors aura that can be used for instance whispers.
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Undying is trash now. Whenever a killer uses it, i hear 2 thunderstrucks within the first 60 seconds.
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what did you expect, it's bethes... uh i mean behaviour were talking about here
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Just because Demos "best" addon got a nerf doesn't mean Demo got nerfed. His portals are actually useful now, with 10 second cooldown and increased traveling speed,I really love this change. And to be honest, I don't need rat liver if I can combo double shred cooldown buff with STBFL, still uncommon addons being his best
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Because killers are clearly OP.
/s
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"OH WAIT, Zanshin buff. yeah you are right totally killer sided how could they buff the most OP perk in the game. Killers are gonna start 5king at this rate." (did you even read the last post he made as Zagrid undercuts one of your points right there)
Demo "buffs" yeah the "three" but really two buffs he got to teleportation really make up for nerfing most of his add-ons. (A one second "buff" to his undetectable status will do nothing)
Huntress Add-on pass is a mix of nerfs and buffs overall she hasn't changed.
Key "nerf" changes nothing about how keys are used and will not change the core problems with it.
Twins "buffs" are to two add-ons while nerfing basekit.
BT was nerfed by 3 seconds after getting an astronomically stronger effect.
The devs have admitted that the Soul Guard nerf means nothing to anyone using it normally. "Realistically, this won’t affect the vast majority of cases. This change is purely to prevent stacking healing speeds and Soul Guard from getting out of hand."
OoO is being reworked let's wait before we call it a "nerf".
Also Trickster buffs should not be considered apart of this patch as they have come out... Today.
Devs hating solo que is conjecture.
To the last point I think you and the other two people who really care about the totem counter are justified it's just you may have to pick your battles.
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Regarding Huntress, the flight speed add-ons, even when you combine yellow and brown together, are better than windup add-ons. So no, all of her good add-ons aren't nerfed into the ground or rare (she also still has double cooldown addons).
Also if you thought 90 seconds of Exhaustion were in any way fair and not a relic of the past I'm gonna have to ask you to just not think.
Edit: also regarding small game they buffed swf and nerfed solo with this. Swf can coordinate a build and ensure one person has the perk and the other 3 are free to use whatever perks they like whilst solos run the risk of someone else using the perk and it being effectively useless as they know that someone else will be doing totems too. Good job devs you ######### it up again.
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Shotgun huntress with both iridescent add ons is going to be absolutely terrifying and viable. The faster hatchets is going to absolutely slay last gen 30fps console players, Freddy was hardly a Nerf at all, Trickster buffed, OoO nerfed finally. I fail to see that there isn't any love for killers in this one.
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Hard disagree with Huntress, Demo and Trickster. Huntress now has two of the strongest add-ons I've ever heard of, and Trickster can now actually use his power to hit survivors no matter where they are. And demo literally had his basekit buffed and now he's got some pretty interesting add-ons to play around with. I'm especially looking forward to the new pumpkin
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90 seconds of exhaustion was fine, in my opinion. But then again, the only exhaustion perk I use is Sprint Burst, so it doesn't really affect me.
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You could get exhausted for longer than an entire generator.
Mindbreaker- an entire perk slot- is 5 seconds. 5 seconds.
Finishing a generator could still let you have about 6 seconds left on your timer. A green add-on shouldn't give more value than a perk.
And don't get me started on when they were combined.
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If you purposefully ignore every killer buff and survivor nerf to fit your self victimization narrative then yeah you're completely right.
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The fact that they are making a NEW op perk to replace the op perk they just nerfed is balancing genius.
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" Huntress Buffs/Twins Buffs"
Excuse me?
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Huntress now has two of the most insane add-ons I have seen, and Twins actually did get buffed.
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What add-ons would those be?
Can't see how Twins got buffed since Victor was specifically nerfed. Small ire add-on changes don't buff the Killer imo.
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the small game is my favorite part of this update because I play a lot of solo and I run this perk a lot so it'll be nice to have that information.
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I think you're being a little biased. The OoO change is very big. The nerf to rat liver for demo makes absolutely no sense to me but it's not that big of a deal. The only reason rat liver was considered so good for him was purely because all of his other addons were complete ass. I would not consider BT a buff. Just a change that keeps a select few killers from being able to circumvent the previous mechanic.
Everyone is all caught up on the insignificant changes made to demos addons and freddy which won't amount to anything and seem to be completely ignoring the busted change to lucky break.
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Insane is true...
I don´t see anyone using them.
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The only buff I'm not ok with is twins and demo why
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