Otz's latest videos proves that Killer will never win playing fair.
Undeniable proof that playing fair or "by the Survivors rule book" will never get you a win(3K+ or Ruthless Killer) as a Killer.
Sure we can say these are the Top 1% of Killer vs the Top 1% of Survivor and these does not represent the average games we always have but can you still say that after BHVR implement their MMR system? It will come to a point eventually that every one of you will encounter Sweat after Sweat opponents Killer or Survivor.
The fact of the matter is that the only way to win majority of games is playing dirty, by that I mean Slugging, Camping and Tunneling. To counter this Survivor will eventually adapt their builds accordingly and we'll see the usual sweat build (DS,UB,DH,BT)
It's a bitter pill to swallow that in the future the DBD trials we all know now would be less fun for Survivor and Killer. I am pretty sure that no one wants to get Sweat Nurses, Sweat Spirits and Sweat Squads every time in the future.
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These are the best survivors on comms though. Normal SWF or solos is definitely winnable playing nice
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Everyone with good experience in the game knows that if you want to win vs good survivors you have to do some variation of camping, tunneling, or slugging. Just how the games balanced. That's part of why all the meta perks are anti-camp/tunnel/slug.
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Or the killer uses every tactic available. If survivors are using every trick in the book killers should too
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I know DBD is probably balance by Solos but I'm pretty sure that every Killer would eventually win against normal Solo teams that eventually they raise their MMR where its gonna be SWF after SWF after SWF. Now okay they'll lost by then and return to an MMR group where Solo are the normal opponent until they raise their MMR and the cycle begins anew. This is why I'm scared of the future of DBD.
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Yes that's exactly it! but I keep getting Salty Survivor that keeps commenting on my Steam profile... they can't accept such tactics and want it be bannable because of how unfun it can be.
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Well yeah. The survivors weren’t doing side objectives or anything so they weren’t really playing fair either. If one side is sweating the other one should have to sweat too to keep up. It makes sense
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Survivors needs to accept that such tactics are normal and stop complaining that "Camping should be Bannable", "Tunneling is a problem" etc. Everyone knows that it's unfun but it's the only way to win as Killer vs Good Survivor.
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I'd prefer if they balanced the game better to where it wasn't necessary.
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Most games as killer are easy to win without playing like this even in red ranks. If you think otherwise then you’re just not as good as you think you are. Yes about 5% of games you gotta play scummy to have a chance but that’s hardly anything
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I know, for now most killers are easy to win. But can you say the same after BHVRs MMR system takes place? If you are winning easily most of the time right now, when the time comes you'll probably face good survivors teams non stop every trial. Looked at what happened to DOWSEY's Twins, 3 hours finding match just to be matched up against the top 1% of survivors
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There are two different versions of DBD. There's the casual league where I play, and being evenly matched with your opponent means that both of you make tons of mistakes and it could be anyone's game -- and then there's the sweat league where the streamers play and an even match means everyone has to optimize everything and wasting 2.5 seconds means you lose. It sucks when those two worlds meet, because whatever the sweaty side does feels like overkill.
This is to say -- in casual land, I can absolutely win a match without camping, tunneling, slugging, etc. I'd say that, if I match with survivors who are just as bad as me, I have about a 50-50 chance, which is as it should be. But I can believe that if you're in the sweat league, or -- worst case scenario -- you are a casual killer matched with sweaty survivors -- it would be impossible.
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This is a problem on both sides. If you’re fighting a sweaty nurse on the meat plant you won’t have time for chests and totems.
It’s just kinda the way the game is. If one side ignores the side objectives or playing nice the other will have to sweat to compensate
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I really wish people wouldn't take content like this as fact.
It's a good demonstration but it's hardly represenative of your average game.
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Tbh that’s more a problem of having an MMR system in the game
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Gonna feel bad for otzs 50 wins in a row characters when mmr gets implemented lol. Tournament teams for days.
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Who knows how the new MMR will work, but the way it should work is that if you are always playing fair, you should get matched up with survivors that will be fair for matchmaking purposes, so you won’t come up against many swear squads.
But ideal matchmaking should eventually put you in games where the chance of winning is 50/50 and as long as you play the same way it should stick. The more you sweat, the sweatier you’re games will get.
But this is assuming it works properly
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The scary part is that the Bubba was able to manage a 3-gen while camping...
The Bubba was really smart tho
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You don’t get it do you? Killers are suppose to follow the survivor rulebook for them while survivors can do anything and everything they want. Cause they are survivor. They deserve to win every time simply cause they are survivor. Honestly it shouldn’t even be allowed to down a survivor.
/s
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Me, who wins almost all my games as killer and plays 'fair' exclusively unless there's a toxic POS trying to piss me off.
And I'm average at killer.
A functioning MMR system will be horrific, I agree. Just as bad as the system has been when activated, but in reverse. It will mean if you play well you'll eventually go up against sweaty survivors and killers constantly, and they're only fun once in a blue moon.
The fun is in the chases and learning to outplay the other player, appreciating the tactics they use to get better at the game. Not sweating like crazy and tunneling/camping for the 4k.
@D3spair yeah that sounds about right. I'd say it's roughly 1-2 games in about 20 as killer where I have to sweat. As survivor, it's most games since I don't play in a 4-man with a on of comms. Max 2-man with comms, and when I'm in a 4, we don't use discord, just like to play together as we trust each other to do objectives etc.
Also tbf, Dowsey is very sweaty in playstyle, so it's no surprise he got put up against sweaty survivors after a very long queue. He plays competitively, which is honestly his issue there.
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While I could understand the idea behind Deathslinger's build and it sadly didn't work out once for him. I really don't understand what Coconut was actually going for with his considering he wasn't playing in the way you would assume considering the perks he brought. Also Coconut probably could have won as he was putting pressure on the entire survivor team at multiple points, but kept giving them breathing room to reset.
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I manage it just fine because not every dbd player is as good as this team :/
When I lose, they were better than me. I like to call myself a pretty damn good killer but I struggle to beat better teams unless I'm vibing with Spirit or Nurse or something. And if I wanna win vs those teams, sure I play dirty, but you don't have to vs every team because not every team is like this.
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Oh the irony. Whenever someone like Otz does a kill streak, people take that as proof that killers need nerfs.
But whenever someone shows survivors do a escape streak, people claim, that not everyone play like this.
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"So long as you play by their rules. You'll never win"
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Stop playing by imaginary rules. Regardless of what you do as killer you will receive snarky messages. Accept it or ignore it. Just try and have fun
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I generally seem to manage just fine as killer, even when playing "fair"
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There were games where the killer annhilated the strong swf just like the one on deadzones haven.
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I like how some people are saying "I get good match even if I don't camp or tunnel". Yeah go do Lery as Bubba and tell me you were able to chainsaw down more than 4 times. Or that you were able to land 6 hatchet with Huntress. If you manage to do more than that, they were clearly under your skill.
A decent survivor on The Game can make Bubba insta saw all pallet and by the time there are no pallet left on the map all gen got done.
If one of two survivor are under the killer's skill and/or aren't able to take full potential of all tiles than sure, the killer will get 1-2 easy kill if he focus them early and by mid-late game with half the pallet drop most killer can snowball pretty hard but is the weakest survivor is good enough to give a 20s+chase every single chase then there's no way the killer can get a 4k with 10+ hooks.
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I do fine with Bubba on any map, in red ranks. But that does mean I know how to give bubbas a hard time, too. One of my favourites to run as and against because I know all the mindgames etc, so it's really a game of skill/reading the opponent.
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Yeah in only 3 games out of the whole trial. And there was like 10+ matches. So overall the squad outperformed the majority of the time. But most of the average base does not play like that. Only about 10% to 5% plays on that level of sweatiness.
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"Sure we can say these are the Top 1% of Killer vs the Top 1% of Survivor and these does not represent the average games we always have but can you still say that after BHVR implement their MMR system? It will come to a point eventually that every one of you will encounter Sweat after Sweat opponents Killer or Survivor."
Those of us on the forum might be the nerdiest part of the community but I doubt we're all in the top 1%.
If the MMR system somehow works properly then you should be facing challenging matches which will sometimes mean losing. The killers and survivors in those videos should be faced off against each other in public matches, and balance issues with the top players going against each other should be more obvious as a result. Current matchmaking would be throwing one of those survivor teams against a rank 19 wraith, or one of those killers against an urban evasion squad.
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This is the top % though, even the devs have admitted on stream that they're aware of the massive balance issues at the top, but they know the majority of people aren't in the top % so they don't care.
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I think most reasonable players expect the strategic tunnel and camp at the right time. It's the unreasonable ones you got to worry about.
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Why is it "sweat build" if survivors adapt and bring perks to counter slug/camp/tunneling? Survivors just run what they think they will need to have a chance at having fun and not being tunneled out of the match or dying on their first hook. Same goes for killers utilizing gen defense / slowdown perks to give them a chance to have fun as well and have an actual match that lasts a few minutes. I don't see how adapting your build to lessen such things on both sides is "sweaty".
When I'm tired of going up against hard tunneling killers with my friends I bring BT and DS because we're just trying to have some casual fun and some killers go into matches just wanting a 4k or riot lol it's so much worse for solo queue too
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I had a survivor match recently where the trapper had a really bad game - I was his first down and I went down just before the last gen went. He camped and we ended up in a trading cycle on a hook near the exit until he got the kate on there and chased us out.
Kate complained about the camping in postgame and myself and the claudette defended the trapper saying it's endgame, what is he realistically going to do etc
and she apologised saying she was still salty from her last match and the five of us had a nice convo after that, gives me hope honestly
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Yeah, ton of survivor player are dog ######### at looping vs a bubba, but many can give you a good chase too. I played about 1/3 of all killer for a solid 30+ match in red ranks and vs those I know their timings & strategy and have an easy time as survivor. If they end up finding me first they will either drop the chase after a couple of windows/pallets or lose 2-3gens for one down and after that they need to snowball really hard to get 6+hooks with 2k kills or more.
once you learn how to loop properly each and every killer you have the upper hand in the chase and you'll make the killer lose lot of time on you, more than they can often afford.
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The game will never be balanced around one side or the other. It may lean heavily for or against either side because of the RNG.
Bottom line is RNG sits on the throne in the middle of all those “but what if’s!” Laughing at each person that complains about x/y/z. Yes even the streamers with thousands of hours.
Post edited by Johnny_XMan on5 -
50 win streak vs 1 loss hits a bit different, no? lmao
Also I've personally not seen anyone say "here's a 50 win streak nerf this killer" I have however seen "Here's a 50 win streak, killer isn't nearly as weak as people make them out to be".
Also, have you ever watched an escape streak? It's literally 3 people throwing themselves at the killer so one person can escape with a key, literally three people throwing their entire match so one person can get a streak is not even close to a 50 streak no addons killer.
Post edited by Seanzu on1 -
I love how people seem to think these videos show EXACTLY how EVERY killer plays and how EVERY survivor plays.
Maybe try playing the game yourself instead.
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Or you just need to get good?.. Ever since I came back to DBD, i've gone 10 straight games with a 4K with minimal gen regression perks, without tunneling, camping or slugging and rotating between Doc, Legion and Wraith at red ranks
Doc - Spirit Fury/Enduring/STBFL/Brutal Strength - Double Discipline addons
Wraith - Sloppy/Thana/Discordance/BBQ - Swift Hunt & Windstorm Addons
Legion - Nurses/Thana/Discordance/Deathbound - Dirt/Stolen Sketch Book
It's absolutely mind boggling that people think its impossible to win without using dirty tactics.
Post edited by Ivaldi on0 -
They did balance it at one point. The survivors had this called a secondary objective and its name was Undying+Ruin. Survivors complained about it and so it got gutted.
Hopefully video showcases two very important points. The first is that deathslinger is nowhere near viable vs top-level, he has too many high pressure shot moments all of which if he misses are instant loss for him and his downs are simply too slow, just not enough reward for each shot. I've always wondered what would happen if hitting a harpoon shot would inflict 5% hindered effect instead of deep wound, Would it be more realistic for him to land every shot if his target was slightly slower to give him a chance to win. No clue really.
The other point is that game should showcases many moments for why you need drop the pallet when injured right away. There are many cases where you can shoot when a survivor drops a pallet during animation lock and hit you. Don't drop them when healthy as deathslinger can easily fire and break chain to injure you, in that sense, he's pseudo legion when your healthy. In the end, even with the chases being not as great as they could be, the survivor still triumphs which I have always said that survivors do not need to play perfectly to win. they can afford to 5-6 hooks states and still come out on top.
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Idk Since you were back means probably you're facing off weaker Survivor teams? I don't mean to offend it seems like you're still playing qt probably gree or brown ranks where the average survivor plays are questionable.
To reiterate my point, wow! You're getting 4ks every match because most survivor are easy to handle for now. BUT what happens when MMR hits? You'll be facing good teams all the time Non stop, can you say the same then?
If you took a break recently maybe you missed when they tested the MMR system. I guarantee you your killers you mentioned would be setting up a tent next to a hook on one of those trials.
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This is why I made this post. Survivors need to stop complaining about these Tactics and just accept it as the Killer trying to win.
Sure it's unfun what can killers do if Generators are popping fast, Survivors are good at looping and there's OoO and a Key
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"Ever since I came back" + "at red ranks" Something doesn't add up. If you took a break you would have move to
purplegreen rank which then give you plenty of easy match if you didn't lose your skill.Getting plenty of 4k just mean that you get plenty of potato in your games. Go in a match with survivor of similar skill and you should get a kill by 3-4 gen, maybe a second by the last gen if you're lucky but no where near having the other two on their last hooks.
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I suppose I'm in the minority but I thought Ruin/Undying's previous iteration was a much healthier meta as survivors actually had a secondary objective and it slowed the game to the duration it should've been at base without having to use perks. Everyone's now back to ignoring totems as they're irrelevant. As you mentioned survivors can afford to make a lot of mistakes and still win. Killer gets about 1 hard mistake and it costs him the game.
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Old ruin was oppressive on new player as they would often miss their great skill check while experienced player wouldn't affected at all. Also it was a passive perk. Right now the killer has to apply pressure to get value out of ruin otherwise it does nothing.
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I'm not referring to old Ruin. I'm referring to the previous Undying.
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The only bad part about it was that every killer had 2 perk slots and eventually would have 2 perks slots for entire game, though corrupt intervention is used almost every killer, so they're playing with 3 perks slots anyhow as corrupt is like survivor's old sabotage. It takes away from survivor objective(gens) similar to how old sabotage would take away hooks from the killer. I guess analogy is like if you took away the net in soccer from one team. Overall, the perk slows generators by about ~100 seconds and how impactful 100 seconds depends how long your match is. If your match suppose to be 6 minutes long, 100 seconds is like 1/3 of the game. if it takes 11 minutes to gens, than it is like 1/10th of the game which is not impactful. Its the perk that gives biggest bang for the perk slot.
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Mmr will solve any issues like these, so long as behavior sticks to the master plan, whatever the cost.
By which I mean, maybe killer really is considerably harder, but once a good Mmr sets in, then average killer will face below average survivors which are suited for them. The best killers will face sweat squads every match. Survivor tournament squads will face the queue, as will long win streak killers. We just need to accept that this will be a thing and deal with it, as the alternative is all the cons from Mmr without any of the pros.
The huge downside is that we'd lose all the 8k hour streamers, which make up a substantial part of our community. That and intentionally deranking will become commonplace.
Either way, accurate Mmr makes up for balancing issues, specially on assymetric game. It stops mattering that killer is weaker than 4man discord squad when their Mmr is just higher to compensate. They just get bigger queues instead.
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Depip squad. No throwing at the killer. Just escapes through the gate.
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