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Can NOED please get a nerf
At the very least make it spawn like a normal hex so you don’t have to cleanse every totem in order to get rid of it before egc. Just played a game against a bubba who was actually terrible with the killer, he was a rank 20 and I was able to loop him for 3 gens because he refused to give up the chase and when we finally got all the gens done he gets a completely undeserved 3 k because NOED exists. Before you guys say to do bones we did 4 totems but the 5th was so hidden and we can’t just ignore gens all game to only do the totems so he still got it. This perk needs to be changed.
Comments
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NOED gives the killer one kill.
If they got more, survivors either got extremely unlucky by grouping up for the last gen (which is always a bad idea vs. Bubba) or reckless altruism because “we need to get everyone out because the killer doesn’t deserve one kill.”
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I think this is more a problem with solo info as opposed to noed
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I would introduce you to the perk Small game, or detectives hunch....but you'd probably find an excuse not to use them for your own benefit.....
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Dude...small game just got buffed...literally ive denied like 15 noeds in the past....20 games ive played? Funny enough knowing that you got all of the totems is very helpful. Once i see that counter go to 5 im like "that's a huge weight off my shoulder". So id suggest yad give it a try. And also the killers reaction to smacking you to realize noed never activated is halarious.
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Bones before gens.
The hatch spawns regardless of how many gens were finished; they are optional objectives.
All 5 totems, however, must be cleansed or else the killer gets NOED even if a single gen wasn't done (anti-gen-rush perk, my behind), because NOED procs from closing the hatch for some Entity-forsaken oversight.
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They should be thinking “we need to get out now because the killer doesn’t deserve anymore points.”
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It needs a rework, not a nerf.
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i think noed is fine, all that it needs is to immediately activate upon last gen completion and not waiting for a hit.
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you know for sure that its highly unrealistic to expect all 5 totems to be cleansed. youre not even gonna make it to the end game if you play like that. thats like a minute of only cleansing totems and going for saves or doing generators. not to mention how long it takes to find all of the totems and get to them. small game isnt really meant to prevent noed, its there to get rid of mid game hexes. also 15 out of 20 games have noed? i have like 2 noeds in 15 games.
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I was trying to get out but bubba was camping both exits since they spawned like 5 feet away from each other so there was 0 chance of me escaping.
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First off I shouldn’t need a perk to see how many totem are left, that should just be a counter that is always there. Secondly there is no room for small game or detectives in my build. I have a specific build I go for my specific play style and small game/detectives don’t give me enough to warrant replacing one of my perks. I run perk to change my playstyle to have more fun with the game, I should have to run one specific perk every game because a killer could be running an op unfair perk.
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Idk its been fairly common for me maybe im unlucky but green to purple (because i que with my gf who is rank 11 and thats what we get despite me being rank 1) maybe people don't trust moving into purple without it? Also have you ever kinda heard of the strategy "totem remembering"? I just if the games going pretty fast try to memorize totems as i run by them (which with its new buffs is very direct) then come back and destroy them later. Also i run inner strength so the 12 second totem for a 8 second heal which ignores the likes of sloppy is pretty good. Also after playing so long i know most likely totem spawns anyway.
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Nah, they should just rework it.
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Small game buff is a direct counter to NOED. If you dislike NOED, run Small game and become a hero for your team.
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No, it doesn't. Do Bones. :) I know you said not to say it, but clearly nobody brought a map. There are FOUR of you, I'm sure someone could bring a map. Every Survivor I have has at least twenty of them in my loot. There are also Perks that help you find them. It doesn't matter how well it is "hidden" with a map or the right Perk.
NOED is fine as it stands now. The purpose of that Perk is to remind you that there is another objective besides Generators, i.e. Totems. You are supposed to cleanse them. The DEV designed NOED specifically to encourage you to do just that. They believe in Player agency so they allow you to choose not to do it, but make it a gamble.
I want you to think about something. NOED isn't designed wrong. It does exactly what they want it to do. Consider the following:
- NOED is a general Killer Perk, i.e. everyone has access to it.
- NOED is one of the first (if not the first) Perks Killers get offered on the Blood Web.
- NOED functions in identical ways to several Survivor Perks, triggering when the Generators power.
Horror movies have what is called a climax, a high point in tension right before the end. This is the most desperate moment when the Survivors are making their last ditch effort to escape. Things always rev up to an unprecedented level at this point. That is exactly what NOED is designed to do, make sure that the end of the match isn't anti-climactic, punctuated by Generators turned on, doors open, and you walk out. The did this on purpose.
The evidence clearly shows the DEV knows exactly how NOED works, and that it is working as they intended. What do you think the odds are that they are going to change it knowing what you know now? It is more productive to start bringing gear and Perks to help you kill Totems, and practicing the process. I assure you that Survivors manage it every day. In the time I took to write this post I'm sure Survivors have defeated NOED a hundred times.
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You're basically saying the game needs to change, because you don't think it's worth it to replace one of your perks with the perk that counters the thing that's wrecking you. It doesn't work like that. Either it's worth it or it's not. If you're worried about NOED and you cannot play around it, you should take something to counter it. Otherwise, you chose not to use the tools at your disposal and it's your fault for prioritizing other things above NOED removal. That's like not going into a locker when BBQ fires and then complaining that the killer came straight to your gen, or continuing to do gens when Devour Hope gives its 3 stack warning and then going surprised Pikachu when you get moried on your first hook. This game requires constant awareness of your opponent's tactics. When you can't account for all four of the killer's perks, or you're playing someone that seems newish/a Trapper/a Bubba, you should be alert for NOED.
NOED has counters at every stage of the game. I've never run it myself, but it's survivors' fault for seeing dull totems as an objective not worth addressing. New Small Game works wonders for bypassing soloQ's lack of coordination. Even if nobody was running Small Game - your Bubba would not have gotten a 3k unless people kept trying to extract the first person he caught. If you can't find the totem and you don't have something like Borrowed Time, bail. NOED is powerful, but it's only powerful for a short stage of the game, can be completely denied, and relies on survivors being overly altruistic to get more than a single kill with it.
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noed is rare at red ranks. also, do you cleanse all 5 totems or just some totems and then try to remember the locations of the rest? i use detectives hunch and when the last gen gets done i check all of the totems that get highlighted. idk about you but id say thats a more efficient way of preventing noed
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If you actually read my post I said we did get 4 totems done. It is not realistic to get done every gen and every totem in a match and this is what people fail to understand. NOED needs changes because right now all it does is give bad killers undeserved kills.
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Do bones
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It is realistic. I play both Killer and Survivor. I face NOED with the same statistical probability that you do. We get it done. So can you. Quit blaming your personal failures on other people or the game. You either rise to the occasion or you don't. If you can't handle (or don't enjoy) the game, find another. NOED is fine. Thousand and thousands before you have dealt with it. During our exchange here people are dealing with it. Stop making excuses.
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Really depends. Like i said i use is so i do save time in the long run with the shorter heal if i come by a totem (especially if the killer has sloppy or a killer that has nurses). But yeah i won't spend to much time looking and doing totems i do try to find their locations to come back to later. But if a killers not exerting much pressure ill obviously cleanse them all for IS heals. I really just adapt based around the matches speed. Also funny enough i used to use dh but for some reason id always have that one totem that wouldn't show on the aura reading.
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I can’t do 5 bones and 5 gens alone. You forget not everyone is playing in a swf. I primarily solo queue and solo queue teammates are god awful. The very very very least bvhr could do is give us a totem counter without having to use a perk and that might encourage people to actually do bones. I agree that it can be possible and likely to get done 5 bones and 5 gens in one game but not as a solo queue player. This is why so many people hate NOED: it punishes solo queue players extremely hard. On the rare occasions where I do play with friend NOED is almost never and issue but as I said that is rare and I mostly solo queue.
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I also play Solo; you don't see me making excuses. Not every Solo team you get is full of idiots. I find if I just do my job, many of them do theirs. If you are unhappy with your teammates not pulling their weight, that is also NOT a problem of NOED. That is a problem of the Survivors and they need to change their behavior. They did give you a Totem Counter on a Perk in the most recent update.
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I shouldn’t need to run a perk to get a totem counter when swf gets it for free. The devs need to close the gap between solo queue and swf.
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No. NoED can be countered by doing totems. Why should you get to figure out which totem is it before the end game?
Hex perks are already hot garbage with all the detecting perks, bad totem spawns, and SWF having a hive mind once they find a lit totem (and knowing if all totems are cleared).
You should in no way get to figure it out ahead of time, or it would be more trash. Just pick yourself up by your bootstraps and git gud. It's your team's fault if you don't clear all the bones before doing the final gen, so why should the Killer get a nerf for your bad play?
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Sorry to say it but uhhh.....Survivors like you are why I have such an easy time playing this game. You do it to yourselves. And you're so predictable. Pride, arrogance, greed, the 7 deadly sins are easy to spot and manipulate in this game, everyone shows their vice. And people like you are a toss up between pride and greed. I can get you to do silly things like try to save someone who's already dead, or take a hit for someone I had no intention of killing, or hand your own team mates over to me in order to save yourself. Because you're not willing to change, all I have to do is change even a little bit.....and people like you lose their minds. Doesn't matter if its NoED, or Franklins, or Iron Maiden, or a tricked tampered timer on a bear trap. You play for yourself, and only yourself and are unwilling to change. Not only that, you have a specific set of perks you crutch.....which I can bet, I probably run a counter to in at least one of my builds. This mindset you have is always going to put you at a disadvantage. Because you can't adapt. And if you can't adapt....you can just expect the killer to keep digging that knife in deeper until you either depip, or actually try to survive.
But again you don't have to take my advice and I'd prefer you not. Easy prey is easy prey.
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If you read my post you would see that I did 4 totem by myself that game because my teammates were hot garbage and refused to do them. I don’t play in swf very often so I have to hope my teammates know to do bones. The very least the devs could do is give us a totem counter without making us run a perk for it.
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I'm terrible at survivor...like completely trash. But I've been running small game even before the buff and never had an issue with any totems let alone NoED. So what I wanna know is....how can a terrible survivor like myself handle it.....but you can't? Also mind you....I ONLY DO SOLO Q. So while you can sit up and say, "Well, its not meant to stop NoED" (which it is btw) Theres still an entire slew of other hexes it can counter as well. Again, just because YOU choose to fail doesn't make something too strong. YOU just chose to fail. You get 4 perk slots to put into your kit as a survivor plus an item....if you can't run builds that set you up for success and to be prepared for the situations you're weak against then its your fault. If you don't know all the hex spawns, carry something that will help you. If you don't like wasting your own stash of items, get a perk that will show you chests, if you don't like being downed right after a hook, carry DS, if you're constantly making saves within the terror radius of a killer bring Borrowed Time, if you can't rely on your team mates to heal you, bring a med kit or self care, if you constantly find yourself healing team mates, bring botany. If you constantly find yourself with team mates that don't have communication or you're always ending up on the first hook, bring Dark Sense or Kindred. Like theres soooo many tools you can use. You choosing not to use them but instead complain is nothing but your own fault when you fail.
So, same thing I said to the OP....don't listen to any advice I just gave, as a killer main I prefer you to fail......Easy prey, is easy prey.
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Side note - anyone else seeing more noed users than usual?
I've been seeing it in almost all of my games lately, whereas before this patch I didn't see it as often (Red ranks)
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"3. NOED functions in identical ways to several Survivor Perks, triggering when the Generators power."
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Wrong. It triggers when the exits are powered. 0 gens completed and NOED will still activate if the killer closes hatch.
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Actually, there's only two proper counters to NOED: Checking totems after fifth gen is done, and hoping the killer has identifiable perks.
'Do bones' is the old adage but it misses the mark in a somewhat subtle way, and Small Game's revamp actually highlights this. Yes, you can scramble up and down the map looking for totems to ensure that all five are down, but the problem with that is that it makes NOED a better slowdown perk than Thanatophobia, especially in solo queue where, unless you have Small Game or Detective's Hunch, you have no way to confirm that all totems are gone. You could be going around an area that someone else already cleansed, too, making the totem in that area suck up twice as much time.
Additionally, the idea that you should just bring perks to counter it is also a problem, since we only have four perk slots. We need Small Game or Detective's Hunch in case of NOED, Unbreakable in case of a slugger, Borrowed Time in case of a camper, Decisive Strike in case of a tunneller, and Iron Will in case of a Spirit.
On top of all of this is the fact that NOED isn't declared until it activates. You could say that, unless you can pinpoint all killer perks (For instance: Ruin, Undying, Iron Maiden, Dragon's Grip. All perks that are easily identified), you should be preparing for NOED. But what if there's a trickier perk in play that you can't identify as easily, such as Discordance, Surveillance, Monitor & Abuse, Nurse's Calling or Barbeque & Chili?
In that case it's a complete gamble. Yes, you could run Small Game/Detective's Hunch into it and spend a good minute or two hunting down totems in an effort to block it, but what if it turns out that perk number 4 was actually just Enduring? That means you used up a perk slot and a bunch of time to counter a NOED that wasn't picked up.
It just boils down to four scenarios:
A) All totems were done, and there was NOED: Killer got heavy slowdown.
B) All totems were done, there was no NOED: Killer got -free- heavy slowdown.
C) Not all totems were done, there was NOED: Killer gets a free kill, possibly more.
D) Not all totems were done, there was no NOED: Neither killer nor survivor benefit.
Add Small Game/Detective's Hunch run as counters and the situations get worse for survivors. (Barring the Inner Strength combo)
The mere existence of NOED is forcing a lose/lose onto survivors. That's why it's creating such a fuss in the community. It's not fun to play against, and the only counter makes it not fun to NOT play against either.
At the absolute -minimum-, the totem counter should've been a universal, baseline aspect, not tacked onto Small Game. It would at least alleviate the NOED tax a little bit.
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The thing about your idea is...Well, I'll try to explain my view, but I'm bad at formulating my thoughts:
The risk of totems is that you have to run the danger of the Killer finding you while you search for totems. And you run the risk of never finding all the totems.
Then SWFs started counting totems as they go, and suddenly Hex perks became absolute garbage. One SWF dude could run detection perks & tell everyone where totems were, and they could share how many they all have cleared. They would know, exactly, how many totems remained, which meant things like Hex: NoED never saw the end game. Because every Survivor knew to clear the last totem before popping the last gen.
So if you add a solo counter; now EVERY player knows how many totems remain. And unless they are bad, they will stop working gens to ensure NoED NEVER pops. Because they'll know if their teammates did not do gens.
A totem counter, without a perk, would be the same as deleting NoED from the game. Survivors could run a full meta AND know if they cleared every perk. Exactly like a SWF, sure. But SWF information is a large reason why Hex perks are pure garbage.
Basically: If every player had a base-kit totem-countdown, then no Hex perk would ever be played, because they would always, ALWAYS be cleansed before the end game. This would basically nerf Hexes into the grave. 4 Survivors running 4 meta perks plus a free totem countdown.
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<laughs> You know what I meant, i.e. when all five Generators are powered. Adrenaline, NOED, and Hope all kick in at the same time. It is to up the stakes for the final run.
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Should have looked harder.
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thats over 3 minutes of not doing generators or helping teammates. dealing with noed is probably the better solution, and that is saying something. theres more bad arguments in here than i care to point out
BTW, do you know how slim the chances of us getting matched together are?
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I think Hex perks in general need to be reworked, into perks that have up to 5 active tiers and which tier it is depends on how many totems remain uncleansed. That way, they're not 'all or nothing' deals that are either way too OP or completely wasted.
NOED could be reworked quite well in such a system, into something like:
When the final generator is repaired, NOED gains tokens equal to the number of totems uncleansed. Any successful hit will consume one token and put the survivor into the dying state.
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You're skipping a few steps in your reasoning there. Yes, a baseline totem counter would counter NOED, but how would it affect literally any other Hex? Are you going to suddenly know where Ruin is just because you know a teammate, somewhere on the map, has cleansed a totem?
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Fair enough, but endgame Hexes (and I'm going to guess some more will be added in the future.) would be rendered useless.
Plus, it nerfs the Killer as well; Survivors who don't know how many Totems remain may wander around looking for them. Which means the Killer may find them faster. Whereas a Survivor who knows when the last Totem is cleaned will stop looking, and either hide or do gens.
So a totem counter actually reduces the risky gameplay Survivors have to do to find totems. Either that, or they have to prepare for an unknown end game.
But a totem counter removes that risk of the unknown. Survivors stop thinking 'I'm going to look for totems' and start thinking 'All totems have been cleansed'.
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Doesn't matter, theres 4 survivors in a game. As long as people keep playing like you in low ranks, I'll keep winning. And it won't even be due to NoED. It'll be because of some other hex perk thats just as effective, or some other mechanic thats just as effective. Even more so if survivors keep coming up with excuses as to not do an objective. As survivor sided as this game is, players who play like you actually help keep it balanced. NoED is only 1 guaranteed kill at the end of a match....and honestly....in the amount of time it takes to activate....if you need it to activate you've already lost the match. On the same token....we have survivors like the OP who get wiped by it. Mostly because survivors are always goofin ass around the map not doing anything....
Up until Red Ranks....I never see survivors cumulatively doing objectives.....NEVER.... You always have 1 guy who gets caught out. One guy who's off by himself....digging through a toolbox while there is a clear and present threat to the completion of the game. One guy who's setting up to get the hook save. And one guy who's STILL CONTEMPLATING WHICH GEN HE SHOULD START DOING AFTER HE'S PASSED AT LEAST 3! With teams like that you were gonna lose with or without NoED due to stupidity alone. Again, against a competent set of SoloQ red rank survivors NoED is a joke, and only guarantees you 1 hook after it procs. Which tells me, that if it has become a threat by that time as in enough to get a 4k it doesn't matter. Your team was gonna get wiped regardless. 3 Minutes of cleansing Totems, plus 6 minutes of doing all 5 generators ASSUMING YOU'RE THE ONLY SURVIVOR EVEN PLAYING.
If you split that up between 4 survivors, and you're all ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING, thats 100 seconds of generator repairs each, and 45 seconds of Totem time each. Thats 2 and a half minutes roughly of doing objectives EACH SURVIVOR PER GAME WITHOUT INCLUDING TOOLBOXES OR ANY GEN RUSH PERKS......
Again....if your team can't afford that kind of time per player, you were gonna lose anyway because of the Jake running around in circles or the Neon colored Feng Min choosing to just not hide....giving the killer one less idiot on the field to deal with making all the other survivors jobs harder.
What gets me about survivors....is the fact that a lot of them think they're doing it right.....when they usually just set themselves up for failure. Like I don't even know why I play killer, survivors do the best job of killing themselves without my help. Up until Red Ranks where they actually grow brains.....
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Then enjoy losing....I run Franklins against item heavy teams, and change up the way I play constantly. If you only play 1 build....then you should be prepared to lose the same way over and over again playing that build. Its like running a stealth build, and then being mad when you lose to a chase because you didn't have the right tools. But again hey, you did exactly what I figured you were going to do and make up pretty much the excuse I was expecting. So.....easy prey is easy prey....have a good day.
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There are more scenarios than that. I can't count the number of times I ignored a bone next to the last gen, and it lit up the second I finished. Killer enjoys 14 seconds of 3% movement speed. NOED has many clauses where it doesn't get value. Killer isn't anywhere near survivors when the last gen pops, checks the wrong exit gate, everyone's in the clear. Killer gets one down with NOED, can't find anyone else, NOED gets cleansed, and then the survivors go in for the save and there's little the killer can do.
NOED can be countered by doing totems. NOED can be countered by not doing totems and remembering where they are, so the odds of NOED spawning in an area you can predict outweighs it spawning somewhere you can't find, and you didn't waste any time earlier on. NOED can be countered by a map. Even if you weren't paying attention earlier and don't have a map, NOED can be countered by searching for totems before trying to save - players with some experience in the game have a better idea of where totem spawns can be, and you will generally not be pressured during this search because NOED users are going to be at the hook or the exit gates. Hell, Soul Guard is a fantastic counter to NOED because if the killer picks you up to hook you, someone else can run in and unhook their previous target. And I consider it a counter to NOED when survivors just go 'screw this' and leave instead of running into the meat grinder. There's nothing wrong with a 1k and the notion of 'it's not a win if we had to leave someone behind/if I played well throughout the match but died at the last second' is just as misbegotten as 'it's not a win unless I 4k.'
I'm not opposed to making the totem counter basekit, and it would be a good bridge between solo and SWF, but the OP's suggestion of making NOED spawn at the start of the game and be cleansable throughout is horrendous and essentially guarantees it will never do anything. How often is a hex still standing at the end of a match? (And NOED itself isn't a slowdown perk - the threat of NOED is, the same way the threat of a DS may stop a killer from tunneling. Without NOED, there would be zero reason for anyone to pay attention to dull totems and they'd serve no purpose except for Nancy fodder. I'm of the mind we need more perks that focus on them, not less.)
And I don't bring Small Game or Detective's Hunch because of NOED, and I bring one of those two perks pretty often. NOED is fairly rare at my ranks. I bring them because hex perks in general are very common and getting rid of Ruin/Devour is crucial. You're not wasting a perk slot on a potential killer perk, you're spending a perk slot on a type of killer perk and banking that one of them will be in play. It's the same reason you'd run Distortion or new OoO; you're not countering a specific killer perk, you're countering a field of them.
But what if there's a trickier perk in play that you can't identify as easily, such as Discordance, Surveillance, Monitor & Abuse, Nurse's Calling or Barbeque & Chili?
All of these I can reliably spot when a killer is using. No, the game doesn't outright tell you they're there, but there are signs. Does the killer always show up when two people are on a gen, but is less attentive when it's one person? Discordance. Do they show up when a gen's nearly completed? Tinkerer (though the lack of TR gives it away faster.) Do they show up as soon as you touch a regressing gen, but don't react when you start a new one? Surveillance. This handbook is essential when you're playing against a Freddy, because they're going to run some kind of gen monitoring perk and it's important to know whether piling on the gen or soloing them is the correct tactic. For the rest, in sequence... does their TR ramp up super quick, and they show up almost immediately after it starts? Do they catch you healing in very obscure hiding spots, or just always seem to catch you on heals? Do they always seem to know where to go after a hook and have high efficiency? (BBQ's really easy to spot if they go for you when you weren't on a gen/hex and were in the middle of a side objective, because there is no reason for them to head in your direction otherwise.)
Usually, by the end of the match, you'll have had a chance to identify all of the killer's perks. Some perks genuinely are near-impossible to spot - like Play With Your Food, Spies From The Shadows, or Hangman's Trick, for examples. All of Wraith's are straight-up undetectable by survivors. But these perks are very rarely seen anyway. I can't think of a meta/semi-meta perk that can't be discerned in normal gameplay. Usually, if you can't tell all four perks the killer is using, there is an endgame perk in play, and even if there isn't, it is a safe assumption to be wary about a sudden NOED or Blood Warden. If it wasn't there, great; if it is, you're prepared.
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im starting to think that this is a bait
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i like how complain about stuff but they never give ideas to help out they just say its to op and they just want it nerf they never give why its op or needs a nerf i dont think noed needs a nerf at all i think its fine the way it is but i did give an idea what they could do to it im just waiting on what people think on it along with another perk
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NOED isn't a good perk. You don't nerf bad perks. It's an unfun perk definitely. It should receive a rework.
The advocators for the perk you will see them post the same argument each time. The convenient argument whether they use the perk themselves or primarily play killer. Go through the names above ^ you'll see it too.
Now I read your situation and it happens. It's crappy to come to this game and see this perk dominate a team of new survivors. Understand, at the high ranks this perk never gets more than 1 sacrifice. That is almost always depip for killer. Hence the perk is rarely used there.
Since everyone else is dropping 'do bones' like the TV show has come back into fashion. I'll say that a perk similarly complained about was old Hex: Ruin at the time. You had the same names saying you need to get better at skill checks, you need to adapt and it's not the killers problem blah blah blah. Survivor popularity was making a decline and BHVR reworked it. Naturally, this perk was so much more oppressive than NOED but it fits the same category. The killer has done nothing to have a huge amount of pressure.
If noed gets reworked and I think it will, there are many good community suggestions that would make it much fairer to players that have performed well in chase (like yourself in that particular match) . Just don't call for a nerf, it isn't a perk that performs well in a 4v1 match of good players.
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