Idea For Shape Changes
I love Myers, have done since his initial release. First killer I properly mained, first P3 etc. But some of his add-ons and how some of his power currently function feel a little outdated. Here is my idea on how to freshen him up to fit in with the modern era of dbd:
Shape:
Evil Within I:
- Move at 4.4m/s.
Rate of stalk at which evil is gained is slightly increased when stalking a survivor from further than 16m away.
Rate of stalk at which evil is gained when stalking a survivor is decreased if more than one survivor is looking in your direction with a clear line of sight.
Perk(s):
Save The Best For Last - You become obsessed with one survivor.
While the Obsession is in the injured, hooked or dying state, all survivors who are not the Obsession get a 3%/4%/5% penalty to opening the exit gate, vault and cleanse speed.
- The Obsession cannot perform the self-heal action.
- The Obsession sees the auras of teammates within and up to a range 20m when injured.
Dying Light - You become obsessed with one Survivor.
Your Obsession gains a 22% action speed bonus to unhooking and healing other survivors while healthy.
Each time you hook a survivor other than the Obsession, if the Obsession is still alive, gain a token.
If the Obsession is alive, all survivors who are not the Obsession get a 3%/3.5%/4% penalty to repair, heal, sabotage, search and unhook speed for each token. Up to 6 tokens can be gained.
Add-ons:
Judith's Tombstone (Ultra Rare) - Grants Unlimited duration of Evil Within III.
- Gain the ability to kill survivors by your hand in Evil Within III.
- Slightly decreases the rate at which evil is gained when Stalking a survivor.
- The amount of stalk required to reach Evil Within III is equal to 4 survivors maximum evil capacity.
Fragrant Tuft Of Hair (Ultra Rare) - Gain the Undetectable status effect for 12 seconds when tiering up Evil Within.
Tombstone Piece (Very Rare) - Considerably decreases the consumption rate of Evil Within III when carrying a Survivor.
*Dr Loomis' Car Keys* (Very Rare) -
- Evil Within cannot progress past Evil Within II.
- While in Evil Within I, stalking reveals the auras of survivors within 32m of you.
- While in Evil Within II, stalking reveals the auras of survivors within 20m of you.
- Gain the Undetectable status effect while in Evil Within II.
- Move at 4.4m/s while in Evil Within II.
- Each hit score event gains a bonus 100% bloodpoints in the Brutality category and gains 150% bonus bloodpoints in the Deviousness category.
*The Wallace's Telephone Cord* (Very Rare) - Tremendously increases the Terror Radius of Evil Within II.
Tremendously decreases the Terror Radius of Evil Within III.
Jewellery Box (Rare) - Tremendously increases movement speed while stalking.
Mirror Shard (Rare) - Stalking a survivor for 1 second with Evil Within II reveals their aura for 6 seconds.
Hair Brush (Uncommon) - Moderately decreases Evil Within III consumption rate when carrying a survivor.
Slightly increases the duration of Evil Within III.
Slightly increases the amount of evil required to reach Evil Within III for the first time.
Jewellery (Uncommon) - Considerably increases movement speed while stalking.
*Bloodied Knitting Needle* (Uncommon) - For 30 seconds after being stunned by a pallet, rate of stalk at which evil is gained is moderately increased.
Reflective Fragment (Uncommon) - Stalking a survivor for 1 second with Evil Within II reveals their aura for 3 seconds.
Glass Fragment (*Common*) - Stalking a survivor for 1 second with Evil Within I reveals their aura for 4 seconds.
Tacky Earings (Common) - You become obsessed with one survivor.
Slightly increases the rate at which evil is gained when Stalking your Obsession.
Only one Obsession per match.
*Bob's Cigarette Butt* (Common) - Vault Speed while in Evil Within I is moderately increased.
*Mangled Coat Hanger* (Common) - Distance at which The Shape can stalk is increased by 4m.
Comments
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Why nerf Fragrant Tuft of Hair? I think it's not really that problematic, in fact the only nerf I'd give to it is an extra 5 seconds of extra stalking required. But I do have an idea for your concept of that Fragrant Tuft of Hair
Fragrant Tuft of Hair
Myers is Undetectable in Evil Within 1 and 2
Terror Radius in Evil Within 3 is reduced (24 m)
Now it can be paired with Dr. Loomis' car keys which is supposed to be the Vanity Mirror
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I added the function of Fragrant Tuft Of Hair to Judith's Tombstone.
Also, Myers is Undetectable in Evil Within I at base kit. And the add-on 'Dr Loomis' Keys' already grants Undetectable to Evil Within II.
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Oh sorry, I must've not read it fully.
Anyway, the problem with Dying Light is that you're essentially forced to let a buffed survivor live for long periods of time for a measly benefit. Reducing the buff isn't gonna help and it's only gonna be useful on Plague or Legion which is better since this the perk was never really useful on anyone.
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I mean, you're right that Dying Light is a weak perk. But at least buffing it makes it so that by itself it isn't as bad and comboing it becomes stronger and actually useful lol.
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One thing that needs to be done: allow tier 3 Michael, with an active tombstone add-on, to kill annoying survivors who dive in to lockers.
Said this several times. Let Myers pin these swines up with his knife like he did in the original film.
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Stbfl is perfect and does not need a rework
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In my rework of Judith's Tombstone it doesn't have a speed decrease and allows for a 2nd add-on to be used with it. So the locker 'issue' should be avoidable in most cases, you need to be able to avoid being insta-killed somehow. Since windows can only be vaulted three times before blocking and pallets can be broken, to have that mechanic where he can kill even in lockers, that is busted.
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STBFL is far from perfect. In old dbd it had a place for its function, now it needs changing completely.
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Actually in old DbD, it was broken good. It was called the machine gun build and it was something. Currently, everyone can agree that STBFL is one of Myer's best perks since it works well for a good portion of the roster
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Old dbd was a broken mess. As the game has changed, the mess has since been morphed into something actually really good, but there are still things that need changing, and STBFL is due yet another change. Started off as a cooldown perk for successful and whiff attacks; it then changed to become linked to bloodlust with only the successful attack cooldown applied; it now links to a token system. In each of these variants they all represented the state of the game in that era. DBD is getting to the point where perks that impact successful attacks cannot stay the way they are. Maps are introducing dead zones to be common place, and sporadic rng cripples a lot of original and reworked maps into making pallets and usable tiles too far spread out. If it stays the way it is, a lot of maps become oppressed by this perk, especially on a lot of maps.
Also, calling a perk 'perfect' is different from saying it is 'strong'. Perfect implies it is in the best state it is in. Maybe the game does need STBFL to still tie to successful basic attacks, but maybe what constitutes a basic attack needs readjusting. It probably should only apply to attacks where the use of the M2/L2/LT button has to be delayed between the M1/R2/RT button so that you do not get bonus attack points in the scoring category in order to gain or lose a token, and hits where M2/L2/LT has been used to secure the hit grants no token gains or losses, for example: Nurse blink attacking successfully does not grant tokens nor remove them, Myers successfully hitting within 2 seconds of stalking and during EWIII does not grant or lose tokens, Trapper hitting someone who is trapped does not grant or lose tokens, Doctor hitting someone still affected by the shock therapy does not grant or lose tokens, Plague hitting a max infected survivor does not grant or lose tokens etc etc
STBFL either gets taken in that ^ direction or becomes something completely different altogether.
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TBH these are kinda some pretty bad changes lol.
Replacing Save, an actually good perk, for what?
Making Tombstone even more broken by adding infinite Tier III??
Fragrant Tuft of Hair now being useless, because Myers already has an insanely small TR in Tier II, making Undetectable in Tier III temporarily basically useless???
Making the Mirrors one add-on and Myers always undetectable with perma aura reading is OP as #########.
I don’t understand the point of these changes at all, they don’t fix any of Myers’ actual issues.
His Tier I and II are not very powerful, even if he has a reduced Terror Radius, he’s stuck in that form for most of the game, and has to slow himself down and not attack survivors in order to gain his power.
Judith’s Tombstone needs a big nerf if anything. Infinite Tier III AND instakills on everyone should not be one addon for Myers.
Fragrant Tuft of Hair should stay how it is, but require fully stalking all survivors.
Tombstone Piece needs to be removed.
Tier up system needs changing, probably flip Tier I and Tier II but Myers becomes way faster in Tier II.
Not trying to plug, but I go more in depth here:
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The ability to stalk up to 40m away is incredibely bad. This would make Myers feel incredibely uninteractive for a good portion of the game.
Honestly, Myers is a brilliant killer and does not need a drastic overhaul to his power. He really isn't weak, and this mentality that he is is a very bizzare one. His early game is probably on par with Oni's. Each, on comparison, trading speed and a lunge for stealth. Myers simply needs an increase to speed in EWI and what with making changes to that and the Mirror add-ons, the removal of increased lunge in EWI (bf's memo). The unification is purely to make it so the add-on is no longer reliant on the player choosing a specific map. 20m is probably too large upon thinking of it.
The Tombstones are a very unique concept on dbd, making Judith's into the way I have allows players attempting to trophey hunt have a more pleasant time of doing so, while also making it feel more earned. The survivors also can still counter it for lack of a better word. Your Judith's Tombstone idea makes it so one survivor can be made dead much like the current Tombstone Piece almost instantly from the trial simply by being hard focused - stalk the targeted survivor from an unnoticable distance/angle and then 1 grab or 1 hit on that survivor later, that survivor is now drained completely of stalk and now available to be unavoidabely killed. This is not a good direction to go in.
I do like the creativity of your rework, however, your idea still maintains the same restrictions as the current Myers does - to extents; in EWII you cannot attack which makes it impossible to get grabs (a fundamental mechanic of your Myers which limits the negatives of EWII expiring) and you reenter EWI upon every use of EWII&III (if i'm reading that right). Which then brings Myers back to needing evil, gained from hits, grabs and stalk, in essence he is equally as capable as the current one but just jumbled up a lot.
I'll restate it, Myers is brilliant as he is. A small tweak to EWI, a couple touch-ups to his stalk mechanic and his add-ons reworked is all he needs to be modernised.
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Um... you do know he can already stalk from 40 meters, right? The only change I made was increasing the rate to 50% from 10%.
Oni definitely has a better early game, as at least you can chase people like a normal killer. In any map that doesn’t have huge LOS blockers (which is most maps), survivors can usually see a Myers coming unless he takes a long time going in a specific route to avoid sight, which just uses up more time. Being slower and not being able to attack for your power is pretty bad. With Oni, though he has no power in the beginning, he has a normal speed and can encourage survivors to use more of their resources earlier in the game. Not to mention his early game could potentially be much much shorter and his power is much much stronger than Myers’.
Your problem with my Tombstone idea seems less of the idea’s fault and more of the design of Tombstones in general. Also this should not ever be a problem for attentive survivors and if the Myers chases one person the entire time until they’re fully stalked, Myers loses if the survivor knows what they’re doing. I will say, maybe that the stalk rate with this addon version could be slightly decreased and survivors can be warned, but again, Tombstones in general are not going to be fun for someone. In fact, one of the big problems with Tombstones are that survivors who played pretty much perfectly can be instakilled with pretty much no warning. Barely stalked, escaped many chases, then just killed by Tombstone. At least with this, it feels more fair and predictable.
Not sure what you mean by grabs being impossible because you can’t attack... Doctor had this same mechanic with Treatment Mode pre-rework. And uh... the ability to gain Evil from hits and grabs would make him much MUCH more capable than before, as you can actually pressure survivors and gain your power at the same time.
With that all addressed, the point of me even plugging my thread in the first place wasn’t to say “this idea is better than yours,” but rather to more effectively explain and give examples of what’s wrong with Myers currently (without having to type it all over again). Having to spend a majority of the time as a worse or slightly better than normal killer (BTW, having a smaller terror radius does nothing for you in a chase, see Furtive Chase) to get an above average power is... not good. Having to stare at survivors for like 15 seconds to gain your power while losing distance is not good.
Myers needs a bit of work.
Also still don’t get the point of your Save changes. It’s a good perk that doesn’t need changing, but okay...
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The point I was making about your 40m stalking should be self explanitory, you stalk fast (in comparison) from further away, meaning you are not actually interacting with survivors, thus feedig into my argument about your JT add-on, survivors do not know how much they have been stalked, due to the fact Myers can be subtle about it, my problem is not with the tombstone concept, it is with your idea which allows and encourages survivors to be eliminated before even being hooked - which is ironic due to the nature of the current Tombston Piece.
I would say Oni and Myers are on par for early game. Oni can chase but has a 32m unique sounding terror radius, Myers has no stain or heartbeat, meaning Myers can achieve what Oni can in roughly the same time; Oni gives them a heads up allowing them to reposition to a loop, Myers gives no warning and can get very close allowing the early Tier-up or a very quick hit/grab.
Doc -- The main point there is that he still had the 'attack' action, you had to press the button to begin the shock therapy attack, this allowed the insta-grab mechanic. Myers in your EWII cannot attack, meaning the 'attack' button will not be available to the player, thus making grabs impossible.
I have no issues with Myers, like your previous argument, attentive and intelligent survivors will know to predict your rotation of stalking into EWIII, right now Myers is best played stalking unaware and grouped up survivors, and also minising solo-stalk on survivors that have been drained of a lot of evil already. He is a very intimidating killer, but is only high-mid tier, this shows me that he is a very balanced killer as is.
My point with STBFL is that it currently has a selective discriminatory nature, members of the killer roster that should fall under the effects of the perk do not, and others do. You either make it so that all hits related to powers do not gain or lose tokens, or you rework it completely to have a detrimental effect on the whole team while not discouraging frequent interaction with the Obsession. That feels like a far more healthy perk for the game. Also, I feel like my idea for it's rework still allows killers to feel stronger in chase, and in having pressure on the map outside of their current focus.
I did enjoy reading your rework idea, it is very creative, however my main opinion is Myers is not requiring that much done to him to fix his issues. Hence why mine was so minimalistic and focused primarily on the add-ons becoming something new or buffed in some examples.
I have a feeling that if we are to see any Myers changes/reworks it'll be this year near to October. I'm still hoping for the Halloween 2018 mask accompanied by the body cosmetic where Myers is missing a couple fingers and blood slattered :D
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40 meters with no line of sight blockers are not generally where survivors will be positioned for most of the match. Most generators have enough LOS blockers such as rocks and trees that Myers will not often be stalking survivors for long in these areas-- and again, attentive survivors will not let him gain much use from this method. Ghostie, for example can stalk from 40 meters at 100% speed. This does not make him less interactive as the ability to do this does not happen often, but it being there is still useful for when the situation occasionally arises.
This grab thing is semantics. Not being able to swing the knife doesn't take away your ability to grab. The command will just say "grab" instead of "attack" or whatever. Again, Doctor did the same thing, and he couldn't attack. Logically, if no other function is bound to that command, grabs would still be possible.
What exactly constitutes as "attacks related to powers?" AFAIK, Save doesn't gain or lose tokens for any special attack. I think it's pretty clear how it works. As for the Obsession interaction point, I think that it's a fair trade off. You are literally Saving the Best for Last. Being stronger against all other survivors in exchange for gaining no effect on your Obsession in this instance is nice design, and it's a viable playstyle. Same reason why Rancor is pretty nice if you avoid your Obsession. That's one less person you have to frequently pressure.
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On a side-note, what do you think of Myers having the ability to 'insta-break' breakable walls while in EWIII?
While in EWIII, press the action button (as usual) to perform a much faster break with a different animation - he breaks the wall with his face as he literally steps through it with force.
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Sounds good. Not entirely sure if he breaks walls faster similarly to pallets in Tier III, but I think a fast break wouldn’t be an out-there addition, especially with the currently odd-placement of many of these walls. It’d certainly give Myers a different approach to dealing with survivors near these breakable walls.
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First of all due to how Nurse's fatigue work, decreased attack cooldown really doesn't matter for her
Second, dead zones are actually an M1 killer's worst nightmare due to a survivor's ability to just hold W. You know what type of killers STBFL is good on, M1 killers!
Seriously, mentioning Doctor, Trapper, Myers, and Plague really doesn't help with your point that STBFL needs a nerf since they are known to be notoriously mediocre
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Save the best for last is perfect as it is, you have to be slightly mindful abot who you hit and you get an inmense multi hit potential or just straight out shorter chases.
What you described is basically a worse remember me
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