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Tunneling and Camping
Comments
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I did camping when a was a new killer.
It was weak, it lost me games and it did not gave me any points.
How am I supposed to get 4 stacks on my BBQ if I camp? Right, no way. Thats why I do not camp.
Sometimes I put the survivor within the perimiter of my 3-gen. But this is endgame and follows the general rule to hang your target next to the action. I do not camp that one survivor, I patrol my gens and he is just in the middle of my patrol fields. If I find another target and you take the aggro, your teammate can go for the unhook.
Tunneling is the same. Does not help me with my 4 stacks BBQ. I need all 4 hooked once for that, so why tunnle.
But if you run into me on my patrol and I do not find any other survivor, why should I let you go?
I am a simple killer: I see a target and I attack. If you unhook a guy and go into hiding, I now only see the poor unhooked soul. Am I supposed to have mercy because his teammates just threw him under the bus?
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Maybe it's because their unwillingness to fix issues that make the game boring like gen speed, and camping/tunneling and the reasons behind it are not the brightest.
Boring for whom? And why does "boring" take precedence over balance?
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Lets all calm down for a moment deep breaths.
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I said it in the other thread about camping and tunneling but since the threads are copies of eachother...
Camping & tunneling are allowed because nothing can 'be done about it' without introducing a mechanic that falls into one of these categories:
- It's abuseable by Survivors
- It takes away Killer player agency
- It's spiteful just to be spiteful
- It forces unhooks at times when Killers need the kill to swing the game, thus forcing them to lose. And no one wants to play a game where they are forced to let the other team win. There's no point to having human controlled Killers, if the game is going to decide plays that cost the match.
Seriously. Complaining that camping is 'unfun' is like logging into an FPS/Battle Royale and saying 'It's unfun that snipers can shoot me from across the map. I can't shoot them back, and they knock me out of the match before I get to play. Please remove snipers, for the health of the game'.
It's Survivors asking for Killers to be forced to play badly, because they don't approve of how they lost to said Killers. But here's a bit of news; no one likes to lose. You take away 'camping', then 'slugging', then 'tunneling', and then the next way Killers win will be 'cheap'. Then the one after that with be 'unfun'.
On and on it will go; every tactic Killers have will need to be removed 'for the health of the game', because people don't understand that losing is less fun than winning. So they lose, don't have fun, blame the tactic used, and claim it needs to be removed because it's 'unfun' and 'for the health of the game'.
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It boring on both sides. Idk how the killer would have fun camping you just proxy around a hook for 2 minutes, and the survivors get no benevolent or chase points because there's no interaction.
Fun in the game is more important than balance for the simple reason of if your not having fun you dont play the game. Yes balance can affect how much fun your having in the game, like gen speeds makes it unfun for killer.
If you want people to play your game it has to be enjoyable so you can keep playing it without feeling that sense of boredom.
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Never said losing had anything to do with it. Camping most likely let's survivors win, but did they enjoy that match, no, because the killer didnt interact with them and they held m1 on a gen for over a minute. Did the killer have fun, maybe enjoying the survivor suffering on the hook, but other then that probably not.
You can do something about it with out making it a abusable. The devs just are not interested because they believe you should run the same perks to "counter it", but as Ive before perks are not counter and when you have 70+ perks in a 4 perk slot system you want to run something different.
Plaster fixing bad game design is a bad way to go about it and is the reason there game is complained about. They dont try things or when they do they do it 1 time and give up, and create a perk to try and fix it.
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Survivors are not always gonna have a good game and escape, just like killers won't always kill all 4 survivors. That is something you just need to accept about the game, you can't always win. Camping being "no fun" is subjective to whoever you ask and you can't say it ruins the game for everyone cause it really doesn't and some people enjoy thwarting the camping killer. Perks are literally there to be used and trying to say you need a defense without the use of perks is pretty silly, you use perks to help you stop situations that are bad for you. The game has been designed this way for almost 5 years, with this same complaint of camping being brought up time and time again. There's probably a reason that its still in the game and still able to be done, cause there are points where you need to camp to buy yourself time as a killer.
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I get that you wont always have fun, but these past couple of weeks this game has been unfun not just 1 match outta 20, but every 2 matchs. The camping in this game is becoming absurd and saying to run the same perks over and over to counter it is a bad excuse.
I'll say it again there are over 70 perks in the game with 4 perks slots. Having to take up 2 slots for ds bt when maybe you want to have spine chill and resilience, or fixated sprint burst in some of your matches.
Being forced to run the same perks every game is bad design, and has ruined this game because the devs think it is ok the plaster fix an idea with a perk instead of fixing the issue directly. I get that maybe something you might need a perk that fixes an issue, but not every perk should be made because your bad at designing a game and wouldn't fix it normally.
I get what your saying, but I dont think perks should fix bad game design, especially when you have made something like PH cages that teleport why you camp it. Dont see why they cant do that.
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Problem is, the 5 survivor meta perks haven´t changed in over 4 years. DS and BT are part of them. All this loooong before camping became a problem like now. Why is camping suddenly a problem? Just look at the gen speeds. A killer who loses 3 gens in a single chase won´t have much motivation to leave the hook. Solve the gen problem and you´ll have less campers.
An idea to reduce tunneling/camping with already established perks could be to give BBQ additional stacks for hooking "fresh" survivors. Like getting the 5th stack only after all 4 survivors have been hooked once.
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Camping/Tunneling is not a weak strategy.
You are pretty much guaranteed 2 kills and will usually get 3 if not 4. Everyone saying you can get 3 gens done if someone is face-camped/proxy camped, is not calculating the time to get to gens and the time to realize a killer is face camping/proxy camping. Not to mention if you maximize your perks for face-camping/proxy camping and count to 12 before re-downing someone if a rescue is tried, you'll be constantly winning (more than 2 kills) games.
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If a Killer gets 3-4 Kills because they stood near a hook; this is the Survivor's fault.
Why should mechanics/safety nets be put in place to reward, or mitigate the punishment, of playing badly & feeding the Killer? It's like Survivors think they deserve the hook simply because they want it, and the game should accommodate them.
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That's the mindset that people have. There only 5 meta perks when in fact there are multiple that are amazing and are just as good. I'll name a few that Iron will, spine chill, resilence, all the exhaustion perks besides head on, we'll make it, bond, detectives hunch, kindred. All of these should be apart of the meta, but are not because people only wanna believe that there are only 5 good perks when in fact there are a lot.
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Iron Will is meta though...
People can play different perks, but they don´t seem to want to.
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Because they think that there only 5 good ones because that's what their told by streams and other players. They dont test things out for themselves, and rely on others like streamers which IMO is a bad thing to do.
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And, what? Killers should have tactics and tools removed because Survivors don't want to change perks? Or don't want to use perks that counter said tactics & tools? Or don't want to need perks that counter said tactics & tools?
I've heard arguments arguing for all 3, at this point.
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Its hard to split up and do separate gens with an uncoordinated team (no comms only solo Q), maybe thats what the OP experienced.
In my experience it is rare that even two gens will pop by the time im dead via camping.
@Itslat3ncy My advice would be to take breaks when matches like this happen if it frustrates you too much.
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Thats not hard. See a gen, do a gen. No coordination needed.
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You can get at least 3 gens in 2 minutes. Maybe 4 if you're good. The important part is everyone stay on their own gen. Thats 80 seconds of progress x3. If you have 3 people on one gen it gives diminishing returns and wont go as quickly. Once you and your 2 teammates are done with your first gens then 2 of you hop on another gen while your best runner gets ready to either save if the killer left hook with 3 gens done OR run the killer for 2 gens. With the matchmaking as bad as it is right now playing killer is annoying expecially in red ranks. When we get screwed 10 matches in a row because we refuse to camp or tunnel we need new strategies. A good survivor can run a good killer for a long time expecially on the new maps that BHVR is making more survivor sided (because fork anyone who wants to play killer amirite) check otzdarvas 1v1 video where he chases one survivor for 3 minutes without getting the downs 3 minutes is 180 seconds. If the 3 remaining sirvivors stick to seperate gens that whole time then do another gen seperately they can get all 5 gens done in that time. If thats not oppressively survivor sided idk what is
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I'm saying that you shouldnt have to run the same perks all the time and that there is variety, but when talking to that guy I was talking about how people run the same perks because they think there's no other good ones beside ds bt ub dh.
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You don't HAVE to run the same perks but META means 'Most Effective Tactics Available'. There will always be a meta; it's human nature to do the best tactic possible.
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Yes I know, what I said to him was that there's more then just 5 meta perks, but people only think of 5 because of streamers and other people. There are so many effective perks in the game that are just as good as dh bt ub and ds. I listed some in another chat above.
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Well obviously but im talking about random teammates
They waste time trying to get the unhook i cant control them
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If Killers play like 10 games in a row, and 7 of that 10 are just premades rushing gens and farming altruism with Borrow time or MOM.... The others 3 games will be a hell for survivors, Pinkyfingers, Tunneling with 5 gens, camping hooks and strong Killers.
This is DBD, if you dont want to be tunneled you have 2 options.
1* Use DS.
2* Complain about gen speed, if they reduce gen speed, tunnel and camping Will end.
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Killer : camps because iTs A StRaTegY
Surv : ok so lets do gens
Killer : genrush :0 nerf survivors
Its how i see now every killer main
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Move yourself on the hook until 1 starts to come.
Or use a perk.
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Doesn't stop tunneling. It's not my fault if my teammates don't use BT...
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When you die on the hook, just move on to the next match.
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Or just exit the game.
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Iron will is meta, spine chill only really strong against stealth killers or few situations, resilience is too situational, Lithe ( my favorite exhaustion perk) can be useless late game depending on the map and where you are, balanced landing is way too situational (god tier on the Myers map), sprint burst is meta, dead hard is meta, well make it ( my favorite support perk is good but some situations can make it useless, bond is not too great for what it does on its own. Detective hunch is easily replaced by a map (new small game is better imo), Kindred my favorite perk in the game is only good for solo, most meta players are at least duo.
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Survivors can't get 5 gens done in 2 minutes, but they can polish off 4 and be halfway through the 5th, and if you factor in travel time that 5th gen will still be finished.
And that's assuming the survivors did absolutely nothing until the first person was hooked.
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We’ve had so called anti tunnel perks out forever. They don’t work. If they did, people wouldn’t complain about tunneling and camping still.
Tunneling and camping at 5 gens on the 1st hook is not how the game is designed otherwise why bother with any loops or anything cuz they’ll never get used. The Devs have just accepted that they don’t actually know what to do to properly discourage it.
Giving a killer a safety pip with 2k isn’t discouraging and that’s worst case scenario.
I totally agree that this stems from killers having no confidence to actually try and play the game with chase interactions and gen control so surely that is where the devs should start looking to fix first.
I think everyone can agree once some gens pop, when there’s end game or 2 survivors downed together there is a genuine strategic reason to camp that area and there should be no reason for complaints from survivors!
Nobody can or needs to argue on whether it’s allowed or valid as clearly both the strategies are, BUT it is boring and i would argue if the games mechanic was that you actually HAD to camp a hook this game wouldn’t exist for long. The only reason it’s not destroyed the game is because it’s not every match.
The good news is until it becomes every other game which is played this way then the game should survive, but the devs do need to look at how they can change the META for both survivor And killer- adding a band aid perk like BT or DS doesn’t help and never will.
On a side note it’s interesting that with Pyramid heads cage of atonement they made it so if he camps it then it spawns somewhere else - I don’t really know why they’d introduce that mechanic if deep down they thought camping was good or healthy for the game? - just a thought?
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If I am being facecamped and my teammates are doing gens, I am not just going to hang there, I will suicide and get into the next game, I'm just saying
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Enjoy with more camping then.
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