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Should Hag be updated?
Comments
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You are making this a way bigger issue than it actually is
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Oof, so you remember when Trapper's traps could be destroyed for the rest of the match
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A 6-meter bubble around hooks along with a 6-second cooldown between teleports
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Take away possibly her biggest strength, that being defense, in the name of something that already has a counter? It's called crouching, and flashlights.
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Except that it is quite a big issue, considering Hag's teleporting range is already massive. You used to be able to run in if you knew Hag was on the opposite side of the map. Nowadays, this is only true for massive maps like Mothers Dwelling.
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you can easily crawl to the hook and get an unhook safely.
the issue is crawling away while she runs back.
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Certainly. her addons are pretty not-great and her base power should be put under the magnifying glass as well. If demogorgon can't put a portal near a hook, hag shouldn't be able to place a trap near a hook.
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Hag’s fine. She’s a strong killer but she’s certainly not overturned. I don’t think any changes are necessary.
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I don’t really care much about her being changed, she’s the rarest killer at red ranks, along with twins anyway.
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If she's not close to her hook, sure, crawling is easy. 'Cept that hag players dont really do that
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camping is not hag specific. your issue has nothing to do with her power
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Does hag need changes probably, however most the changes people are suggesting would kinda kill hag not in terms of her being good or bad or anything but would kill most the reasons to actually play her.
If you made hag less one note and more of a versatile killer eg make her 115 it would kinda hurt what hag is in essence, a killer with NEEDS to setup and think ahead to get ANYTHING at all. If you make her worse as camping then you straight up are gonna be nerfing hag who is rarely played anyway.
I have no clue what i would do to hag but any changes would have to try and keep her identity in tact, and im someone who normally hates it when people say it would hurt the killers "identity" when x changes are suggested but hag is so niche and odd that i think it actually makes sense to say.
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If they just got rid of that one add-on, she would be ok.
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At this point I'm not even sure how to change Hag to make her more enjoyable for both sides and healthy for the game.
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Yes, she should be
erasedupdated. She is a natural born camper abomination.0 -
But Hag is the only one who has a massive area of camping, where other killers have quite a small area where they can effectively camp.
So yeah, it has everything to do with her power. The fact she can defacto camp a huge area while not even being there and instantly being there, while all others actively need to be there.
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Nope
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Yep, do you want ######### paint to compare the area that Hag can defacto camp that other killers cannot? Proving that it truly is her power being the issue? I can counter all campers with vanilla mechanics, I cant counter a camping hag unless I have access to a flashlight. Meaning, once again, her power enabling her.
It's the same reason BT was altered to no longer benefit camping stealth killers and Freddy's.
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Hag definitely needs a rework along with Nurse. Those are the both most broken characters other than spirit
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1st- twins can camp a hook a lot better, go make a thread on them. ( also on longer distances)
2nd- I can deal with a camping hag on vanilla mechanics. Maybe you are just bad at it
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1) I think Twins have to be reworked too referring as their camp potential
2) Yes, you can but it takes a huge amont of time and it is very much riskier than with other killer
I can't stand playing against Hags. I DC a lot against them and I am against to DCing.
I think hag's traps has multiple unfair issues being the most annoying these: insta teleport, insta hit and you can put the traps one next each other. The other day one Hag had put three traps in a row in the basement stairs, it is too much...
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no killer is more dangerous while camping than bubba.
so "it is very much riskier than with other killer", absolutely not.
and it takes a little bit of extra time, crounching when you get near a trap doesn't take much time.
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"and it takes a little bit of extra time, crounching when you get near a trap doesn't take much time."
It is true but after that both the unhooked and the savior have to crouch to get out of the zone and the little camper abomination is always near and coming back.
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As a Hag main I can agree on changing her traps so that they can't be placed immediately around a hook or up to a certain range similar to Pyramidhead's trails of torment.
It's bad enough going into basement with Hag but when she sets up a singular trap right behind the basement corner that survivors can't see when walking in it's just downright oppressive lol
When I play Hag I try to place traps further away from the hook in places I expect the unhooked and rescuer to run to so I can teleport and hit them like that and it's so much more fun than just downright spamming traps around the hook and being scummy lol
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which is why I said the only change hag needs is for her traps, X meters from the hook, to get destroyed after the unhook.
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If she is also camping you can't crawl. Noobie hags trapping the hooks should go away, its pure cheese. At that point only a flashlight can put out the misery of the unlucky hooked survivor and that depends on luck or if you bring it from home.
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Only in terms of a texture update I would say... Otherwise I see no problem with her currently.
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She is fine, if they touch her i know they will just introduce new bugs and useless addons. She is actually the only killer where almost all addons are useful except the red ones.
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if any killer is camping, it's harder to get the unhook...
and hag camping is worse than most, since she's 110% with no ranged attacks.
also,
this is the solution
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Honestly no. The best you could do is to make some minor changes towards some of her more annoying addons like mint rag + rusted shackles but her base kit should not be a changed at all because looking over some of the changes people want with them will just straight up ruin her. Is she annoying? Yeah but some of these changes will just turn her into another billy situation and I don't think we need that. She fills a niche and that's fine by me.
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I’d cry with pure, unadulterated joy if this day ever comes.
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Nooooooo! If they touch her, it's DEFINITELY going to be a nerf in there. We've seen what they did to Nurse, then Billy, then Freddy and I can't take it no more.
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1st, no, twins cant. They need to be 16 meters away to switch. The only way they could "camp" a hook better is by having Victor stand next to a hook and then never switch to Victor, which damages Twins' gameplay more than it will save it. It's a nice thing for the EGC, but during the normal game, it's bad. While Hag can just place traps willy nilly without affecting her gameplay too much.
2nd, sure, if they dont bring the most disgusting hag addons, anyone could deal with them by constantly triggering traps. Doesnt mean it's not an issue.
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1st - Twins can literally be in 2 places at once. At any distance. The sister at 16 meters is more dangerous than hag running 40 meters while you are crawling away.
2nd - I said "camping hag", not "hag with only these addons and not these other ones"
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And they’re still 4k’ing.
Who knew....
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Hag is fine... 🤷🏿♀️
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She most definitely is not.
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Addonless hag is fine, but addons exist. So you have to consider those addons too.
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I did. I'm saying I can deal with a camping hag with any addon.
unlike a camping bubba... which you can't do anything about it
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You can gen rush a facecamping Bubba. The issue with Hag is that she can camp AND apply pressure.
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I mean, you can if its not the basement, it's tough as #########, but you can. Besides, my issue isnt the fact that the killer is camping, my issue is the region that the killer has camping pressure on. Since you dont seem to understand after so many posts, I'll compare the situations:
This would essentially be the area that a camping Bubba would have pressure on, Bubba is there, so Bubba cannot pressure any gens as he needs to be there to have active hook pressure. You can easily decide to leave him be and rush gens, because he actively needs to stay close to the hook:
Now this is the situation for a camping Hag, Hag can pressure any gens that are within a radius of 40 meters of her furthest trap, put that hook anywhere close to the center of most maps, and she can essentially teleport back instantly, let alone that even if no traps are being triggered, as I stated before, every trap has a basekit diameter of 6 meters where it can be triggered and survivors MUST crouch that distance to not trigger it(seriously, if they could walk instead if traps were in the radius of a hook, would already be SO much better). Meaning that PER TRAP, a survivor has to crouch 6-ish seconds, in which Hag can move 25 meters. So if its a hook on the stairwell on Hawkins for example, that means Hag can place 4 traps there(3 on any generic corner hook, forcing a survivor to crouch for roughly 11 seconds assuming the traps are placed right next to each other, but Hag can easily add 2 more meters between those traps and an additional 2 meters between the hook and the first traps, because who's gonna run those 2 meters and risk triggering them? Making it effectively 15 seconds of time for a survivor to only crouch a mere 16 meters with the only real counter play being a flashlight. In those 15 seconds, Hag can effectively check every generator within 35 meters and walk back to the hook without the hooked person being rescued. So you end up with a pressure that's more like this(I didnt go for the hawkins one, it was just an example of a more extreme case, but that hook isnt even the worst on the list). Giving her an effective defacto camping pressure region of this:
There is a reason why many hag mains stop using addons. It's because Hag doesnt need them. Her pressure is immense. No other killer can have Make Your Choice trigger and hit that survivor before they finished their unhook. No other killer can gain a stack of Devour and rehook the same survivor 2 seconds later. This is why the 8 meter region around the hook(which is considered to be the facecamping region by the devs themselves) needs to be trapless, because it would be a defacto facecamp, and no killer should be able to effectively facecamp from 40 meters away. It still allows hag to place traps nearby the border of it, but it gives survivors a moment to actually run to an unhook. Unhooking a teammate that has no killer around shouldnt be punished by the killer having the power to instantly appear next to the hook. Appearing nearby? Sure, no problem with that. Nurse can do that, Spirit can pretty much do that(although, she needs to make distance first), Freddy can do that(if there is a gen near, and takes time), Demo can do that(again, takes time). It's the fact that Hag instantly can appear next to you, why her traps simply shouldnt be in the facecamping region. If it took her time to do so, fine, no issues, but we all know Hag is below F tier if she needs to take time to teleport.
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Yes, Hag definitely needs changes. She shouldn't be able to place her traps near hooks and the camera shouldn't swing when you trip one of her traps.
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You can gen rush any camping killer. But you can at least trade hooks vs other killers.
Apply pressure=/=camping.
And like I said before, if we change hag so her traps, x distance from hook, are destroyed after the unhook, it would literally solve all the issues you keep bringing up.
Because it means you can just run away after the unhook, and she would have no way of catching up.
Hag is good without addons...so?
Several killers are. Huntress, wraith, spirit, freddy, blight, billy, nurse... so what if hag is good without them? Why should a killer depend on an addon to be good?
And again, twins can facecamp from the other edge of the map.
Hell, freddy can technically teleport to a gen near a hook and get instavalue of myc or devour... so can demogorgon (which in fact, I have done).
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Do this to Hag
- Reduce the distance she can set traps to hook (How about 8 Meters minimum space)
- No basement traps
- Flashlights no longer destroy traps
- Increase the default range she can teleport to traps
- Increase her lunge distance when teleporting to a trap the farther she was from it when she initially teleported to encourage leaving a trapped area. Just think max distance as Coup De Grace tier 3. So if you're near a survivor it's a normal lunge but if you're across the map when you arrive at your activated trap you'll have an insane lunge range.
I hate Hag but if you outright stop the camping incentive she has I'm fine with buffing her a bit.
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The issue with not being able to trap around hooks, is that it means she will lose out on several spots to put traps that are completely unrelated to camping the hook.
Having the traps x distance get destroyed after an unhook is the better option and accomplishes the same thing
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Valid point - I'll agree with normal hooks. I still believe basement trapping shouldn't be a thing.
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She's definitely overpowered. Addons are too strong, instantly teleport to trap. Very unfair to verse.
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"And like I said before, if we change hag so her traps, x distance from hook, are destroyed after the unhook, it would literally solve all the issues you keep bringing up."
No, it would only half the issue where Hag instead of check all the gens within 35 meter radius and walk back before someone walks out, into all gens within 18 meters before returning to the hook IF someone was waiting around the corner and instantly crouched for the save. That's still a massive area.
"Several killers are. Huntress, wraith, spirit, freddy, blight, billy, nurse... so what if hag is good without them? Why should a killer depend on an addon to be good?"
No, being good without addons isnt the same as not needing any addons at all. Nurse is similar, but at least the majority of Nurse's addons dont really make her even better, there's only 2 that do. Hag you can almost slap on anything.
And not specific addons, but addons are part of the game. Killer basekits are designed on how powerful their addons are, never the other way around. Hag is the exception to this rule.
"And again, twins can facecamp from the other edge of the map."
Except that Twins needs to be 16 meters away in the first place, she cant appear instantly next to the hook, she doesnt ever know someone will unhook untill after their unhook happened. Demo and Freddy also cant appear next to the hook instantly, they need time, they need to make distance, you have time to tank hits or make distance. That's not the case with Hag.
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No, it would only half the issue where Hag instead of check all the gens within 35 meter radius and walk back before someone walks out, into all gens within 18 meters before returning to the hook IF someone was waiting around the corner and instantly crouched for the save. That's still a massive area.
Then you don't have an issue with hag. you have an issue with any camping killer.
all gens within 18 meter is just... 1... maybe 2. depends a lot on the map and which hook.
No, being good without addons isnt the same as not needing any addons at all. Nurse is similar, but at least the majority of Nurse's addons dont really make her even better, there's only 2 that do. Hag you can almost slap on anything.
the best huntresses don't even use addons... like ever. and all the ones I mentioned, also don't need addons. the addons just do what they are supposed to do, and increase their power or change it in some way.
also hard disagree. bog water, bloodied water and bloodied mud are straight nerfs to her power.
so is scarred hand and waterlogged shoes.
disfigured ear and grandma's heart are pretty much useless.
(you know...most of her high rarity stuff is surprisingly bad...)
Pussy pillow catkis and willow wreath aren't bad just... meh. since the trap already looks in their direction, you don't need the aura to track them.
she already has a pretty fast trap setting time, so reducing that is not really important. Again, not bad... just unnecessary.
which leaves her with very few actually good addons. those being, the ones that increase the distance she can teleport to, and how long the trap stays active for. that's it.
+ rusty shackles and mint rag. which are indeed very powerfull. I personally think rusty shackles is less effective than regular hag, but I can chalk this one to just opinions.
I personally don't like using mint rag either... traps overlap all the time, and going to the correct one is sometimes annoying (not saying this isn't very powerful, it is. but I don't like it)
And not specific addons, but addons are part of the game. Killer basekits are designed on how powerful their addons are, never the other way around. Hag is the exception to this rule.
half her addons aren't even good. also "Killer basekits are designed on how powerful their addons are" got a quote for that?
I don't think this is a rule. And if it is, I don't think she's the exception. I can easily point to huntress and say all her addons are entirely unnecessary and she's already amazing at base.
Except that Twins needs to be 16 meters away in the first place,
not if you use victor to camp.
also in what world does this "walk back before someone walks out, into all gens within 18 meters before returning to the hook" somehow apply to hag but not twins?
how is hag at 18 meters somehow more scary to you than charlotte at 16?
she cant appear instantly next to the hook
neither can hag if you don't trigger a trap.
but you know...demo can. depending on how you define instantly.
she doesnt ever know someone will unhook untill after their unhook happened
neither does hag if you don't trigger a trap.
Demo and Freddy also cant appear next to the hook instantly, they need time
very little time. also they are 115%.
they need to make distance
pff... no they don't? what? some hooks are literally a lunge away from a gen and demo can trap at pretty much that distance aswell.
you have time to tank hits or make distance.
Again...same with hag, if you don't trigger any traps... can you get your hate googles off and look at things objectively please?
That's not the case with Hag.
How is it not the case with hag when her traps get destroyed X distance from the hook after an unhook?
Come on, give me the scenario where this doesn't solve everything you are complaining about.
This is the challenge now. Give me a scenario, that applies exclusively to hag, where destroying traps X distance from the hook after an unhook wouldn't solve whatever issue you think exists about a hag trapping a hook.
This challenge is all you need to answer me. Ignore everything else if you want. Give me this unbeatable hag scenario, or just stop.
she only walks at a distance where she can easily walk back? that's all killers. and she is terrible at it
mint rag? Unless she's psychic and knows when an unhook will happen, she won't have a trap to teleport to. and if she does teleport before, there's no myc, so you can just tank a hit. and if there's a trap outside the X range she can tp to, she's far away... just run.
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Hag doesn't need to be nerfed. We've had enough nerfs. She doesn't over perform and she doesn't have an insane pick rate/kill rate. She's fine.
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