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FOR GODS SAKE PLEASE REWORK HAG!!!
I am appalled and astonished that Hag is still flying under the radar.
There is absolutely nothing fun about, or fair about:
a) not even being able to simply WALK around the trial. WALK!!!!
b) once in a chase it’s basically “screw you” because there is absolutely NOTHING you can do as a survivor if you run anywhere near a phantasm trap. Not even TOUCH the damn thing. Just run near it.
c) the fact that there’s is anywhere from a marginal chance to NO chance to avoid a hit once Hag teleports.
And...
d) her hook camping by proxy BS that means you’re basically dead from your very first hook, unless magically gifted with the most competent teammates in the entire world.
There is absolutely NOTHING BALANCED about a killer whereby the determining chances of success against them is whether someone in the team happens to have the correct item.
I just don’t get it. How?! HOW?!
How has Hag been allowed to remain in the state she is in.
All she provides is a lopsided experience for the killer using her, and misery, frustration and a sense of pointlessness “why even bother trying...” for the survivors.
Please, why aren’t more of the community speaking up about Hag’s very real, very big problems?!
*additional note* i’d also like to add that ever since the change to Ruin, it is now an absurdly frustrating perk to deal with when hag runs it. Particularly when needing to crouch towards anything that’s either an objective or a loop/vault that’s likely trapped, which just buys Hag even MORE gen regression with Ruin still up. Can’t leave gens when someone’s hooked. Can’t leave someone hooked to die, but it’s going to take a tediously long time to save, only for the unhooked survivor to be tunnelled whether the right thing was done (crouching) or the wrong thing was done (setting off a trap). It’s also enough to send someone homicidal to have been DOING THE RIGHT THING BY CROUCHING TO NOT SET OFF A TRAP, only to have another survivor not knowing it’s there set it off, except Hag hits/downs me upon teleporting.
She is a stain on DBD. The only positive thing about her is that she isn’t played prolifically for some odd reason.
*another additional note* Can I please just clarify that I’m not asking for Hag to be completely neutered without adequate compensation.
I’m not asking that she have all these frustrating issues removed, leaving for nothing to actually help her, or not feel significant enough to bother using against survivors, so she may as well stand in a corner and let survivors play gen simulator.
She should be adequately buffed, especially where flashlights are concerned, if the issues I’ve brought up are reduced in severity, or removed entirely. I’m asking for FAIRNESS. Right now, without comms, her current counters are at best laughable if a solo has not brought in a flashlight, or a rainbow map or map with red twine (is it red twine?). And even THEN, those maps won’t show every trap if you haven’t yet had a chance to keep on the move around the trial.
Most of the current counters a lot of you are suggesting are either hindsight (just bring insert perk or item here, which is never a valid argument. It’s impossible to preplan a build that covers every possible contingency against every killer. You just can’t.), or what is being suggested simply can only be done effectively with a team on comms, and not everybody wants to play that way. Attempting some of these solo can often result in being highly detrimental because of the backfire. I accept and expect that solo play SHOULD have drawbacks and disadvantages, but not so much against a particular killer whereby a solo shouldn’t bother playing. It shouldn’t be “let’s just save some grief, vault spam, suicide on hook, get it over with”
Comments
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Just use deja vu
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All she needs is for her traps to not yank you towards them. That's about it. That's how she can get a hit. Oh, and make it so she can't spam traps around hooks XD
Post edited by AVoiceOfReason on2 -
Increase the distance of placing a trap near a hook and remove flashlights destroying her traps.
Boom. Fixed.
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I don't understand the requirement of needing to crouch over traps. Why not make it so walking over them doesn't trigger them? I understand Pyramid Head's Rites of Judgement but not Hag's traps.
Also please rework Rusty Shackles and Mint Rag. For the love of god, I hate those add-ons.
I understand that not all killers need to be fun to play against, but Hag is on so many different levels it's not even funny.
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To fix Hag they should
- make it so you can remove her traps by erasing them while crouching no flashlights
- make it so any trap within 8 meters of the hooked survivor are instantly destroyed
- give her a new chase theme.
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My change to the hag would be disarming traps temporarily if a survivor has just been unhooked, so when unhooking someone against the hag, any traps within like 10/15m of the hook are deactivated so you can at least run away, she still has the benefit of forcing survivors to save slowly but then they can make a partial get away at least without crouching away and giving her plenty of time to come back, and it also doesn't get rid of her traps so she didn't waste time putting them down they'll be usable again after 10/15 seconds.
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16m from the hook.
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This is my biggest problem with her. If she decides to be a total scumbag by spamming traps around a hook, and immediately returning upon an unhook without traps triggered, the unhooked survivor is still screwed. Not even the recent changes to BT help much now endurance is applied regardless.
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Yea it's quite frustrating, you run away, she teleports, you crouch away and she can have enough time to catch you, and she knows you're crouching bc no traps are being set off.
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Then make her 115% chase. The camera grab and hook placement is all she can really do. Look at hook spawn. If you made a radius where she couldn't trap around hooks, you could effectively destroy her web in half a map, easily, due to hooks spawning in tiles she requires to control.
You hinder her method of control, then she needs to be able to chase.
Besides one flashlight disables her in anyway, just like toolboxes used to do to Trapper.
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I feel like walking should not trigger the trap. And tbag on trap should remove it (because if walk over remove her trap, it would make survivors accidently remove trap without knowing about the trap).
Basement hag is much more painful than basement trapper. At least you can run. Hag put 2 traps on the stair and you have to crouching the whole area.
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The camera yank is very unnecessary but they could replace flashlights with a manual disarm over time like Trapper. She can still teleport and hit after a second or two. The camera yank is what causes her to get almost any hit since it rotates towards the direction of the survivor and doesn't feel good when you just barely touch a trap radius then just comes out swinging for a guaranteed hit. I'll even reason with you. Make the yank not so abrupt and harsh. Just enough to move a survivor but not enough to immediately force them into a wall or the Hag.
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Hag is easily the most boring killer in the game. I wouldn't mind a full rework.
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Exactly. It’s “spam teleport and M1 for automatic easy hit”
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I also respect that the flashlight interaction needs to change. They’re far too powerful against Hag.
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@AVoiceOfReason Isn't the camera yank dependent on proximity? If you hit the center, almost no yank, hit the edge, hard yank?
I personally wouldn't mind fine tuning it. Everything can be fine tuned. My issue with removing it is that split second a survivor requires to readjust their camera is where most hits come from. You take that split second away, and they've already gained several meters of W holding. Hag is only 110%. That's a big deal.
Or, and this is just off the top of my head, remove the camera yank, but give Hag a speed boost when teleporting, similar to Wraith uncloaking. Just a second or two, at best. Something to make up for the loss.
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I hate Hag. I respect the amount of practice and strategy that goes into using her well enough to be as frustrating as she is. I really do.
...But that makes her really frustrating, lol. I'd rather face Spirit. I honestly would. At least Spirit can't just magically appear instantaneously right next to every damn object I'm required to interact with to have a chance at making any progress in a match.
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She shouldn’t even be automatically facing a survivor upon teleport either. That’s too much free automation.
Freddy isn’t automatically facing survivors.
Demo isn’t automatically facing survivors.
Why does Hag get so much free, easy hits?
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I constantly think about the Spirit vs Hag comparison.
At least the spirit player has to still be actively participating in tracking in order to appear within striking distance of a survivor.
Hag doesn’t need to bother with any tracking at all during a chase. Just wait until a trap is triggered, and everything is almost automatic. Press teleport, press attack, free hit/down. It is infuriating, and it makes me angry and confused as to why Hag has remained the way she is.
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@TheClownIsKing Again, 110%. That's a really big deal with her. She can't chase. If survivors have an issue with the camera yank, then she'd have the same issue if she wasn't already adjusted.
Freddy and Demo are both 115%. She's 110%. Again, a very big deal.
I don't know why it's considered free, or easy. If they were, you'd see far more Hag players than there are now.
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Hag is 110% because she doesn't need to chase.
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There are those who don't agree with you, but I do completely.
"Oh, Hag's the killer in this one? Huh, better just crawl everywhere and never approach gens or hooks then, I guess. Oh look I made the mistake of standing up near this random and 100 percent invisible trap in the weeds. I'm dead now. 4,000 BP? This new rusty toolbox made the five minutes I just waited to not even get to play that match SO worth it".
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@Rivyn The yank is the same even if you stand in the center. It forces your character into the Hag hard and that's why a lot of people get mad. It's the fact that their cheeks can urban evasion near the end and stand up to run and get yanked right back into the center. The speed boost would be a bit fairer since you still can get a hit but it's just not instantly a free hit, if that makes sense. It uses the momentum of your running to force you to run into her and since they gave her a normal lunge awhile back (she use to only be able to do a quick swing so if you was on the outer bit, you would still have to chase survivors down a little with her), she's pretty much impossible to dodge since the camera rotates to fixate on you no matter which way you turn.
At least with the speed boost, she could still get a hit after a second or two but you'd have to be smarter with your traps around pallets. Also, depending on what direction you place your traps, they force the character away from it. So if I put my trap while looking directly at a pallet, it'll yank me away from the pallet and towards the trap, giving you a hit and while you're disoriented with STBFL, you can actually double tap them before they can safely get back to the pallet. If I place it away by looking away, and head to the pallet, the yank is very little since I'm already running in that direction of the trap. Does that make sense?
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Woah calm down hag is not even that hard to counter, you just need to get better at learning from losses instead of harboring hate for a video game character. You do realize hag traps are easy to spot with the flying magic particles all around it. Ever use object of obsession? Just watch her put down traps and trigger them when she busy making more traps early game. You have infinite maps as well as deja vu for easy counter to hag. What next nerf tier 3 Myers because you got one shot?
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Just crouch over them lmaooo
Just use a flashlight lmaooo
Just look closely for the particles and the triangles lmaooo
Just use OoO (which was reworked and is inconsistent against trap-based killers now, not saying it's a bad perk tho) lmaooo
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Took the words right out my mouth, but I couldn’t be bothered saying.
I’ve been playing for 4 years, not 4 minutes.
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fix? thats destroy the hag, she will appear even less than she already does.
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You say that like it's a bad thing.
/s
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No it won’t it will fix everything annoying about her no more 4 traps around hook and no more flashlights to counter traps you can just destroy them with no items
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She has counterplay, much like Spirit and (kind of) Nurse. You basically need to aggro her, at least 1 of you, so that she can't set up. If she gets a chance to set up in an area of the map and y'all keep running into her traps there, you lose. You can't just let her do her thing and then loop her like you can other killers, because she doesn't go for chases, she goes for tp hit tp hit. And when you know you're about to run into one of her traps, you can try to spin into it and turn around so that she whiffs when she tps. It's a double back mindgame you can do just like with Spirit and Nurse. And when she traps the hook, just crouch through it. She can come back of course but that's still camping and will get punished if the other players are doing gens. But the way y'all talk about her, she has no counterplay and apparently is as strong as Spirit. Perhaps this just goes back to the main problem which is solo teammates generally being bad.
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all I hear is wahh hag op traps take more than a brain cell to counter, seriously if you can’t deal with hag I wonder how you deal about bubba and blight lol. Plus you didn’t say nothing about bringing a map so just bring a map if you scared of a barely played killer not like maps are limited
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Correct, that is how killers with 110% movement speed work. Their power allows them to win chases very well. Hag is a bit different, in that her power isn't really good IN a chase unless you setup stuff ahead of time.
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I can understand Spirit, but it's just hard to take these posts seriously. A couple have already popped up about how Blight and Wraith are OP and have no counterplay. Wouldn't be surprised if someone started complaining about Trapper or Billy and that they should be nerfed.
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Because Bubba and Blight have consistent counterplay and are actually balanced killers.
Bubba's counterplay: Windows, pallets, and distance
Blight's counterplay: Going behind rocks or large objects, using loops that he can't deal with
Hag's counterplay is dumb and inconsistent, and it slows survivors down heavily. Not everyone brings flashlights, by the way.
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so she encourages a stealthy play-style. this is a problem how
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Probably because it makes her even more boring to play against when you play stealthy against her.
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What magic particles? Is this an ultra-graphics thing? They're practically invisible for me
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In solo queue you can't coordinate like that though. I always try to aggro her but my teammates just don't do gens, or 3-gen us against the hag. Also I will get almost no points for doing nothing the whole game because once again, can't coordinate taking turns of who is aggroing the killer.
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I don't know if she needs to be reworked, I'm just glad no one plays her. It is BS that they can just proxy camp hook and come back knowing they'll get a down no matter what, I feel like that's how half of the people who play her play. I don't exactly get how her traps are supposed to be fair either. Trapper's traps are both easier to see and a much smaller range. Hag's range on traps are invisible, and the traps themselves are close to invisible, and it's almost always a free hit if you do run into one. Trapper literally got an update where it's easier to get out of stepping in his well placed trap. And when you disarm his trap it doesn't automatically appear in his inventory. Not liking the difference here. The problem with playing Hag though is that you can't chase because you're 110 and the shortest killer.
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I think that's a good idea honestly. The survivors playing stealthy and boring as ######### to counter Hag's boring play style.
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Thanks for the tip, as a solo player, that doesn’t know where Hag spawns, i’ll just psychically communicate that down my PS5 controller to coordinate that ok 😒
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Even stealth is only marginally helpful. Crouch walking EVERYWHERE helps Hag because of how much time it buys her. Combine this with Ruin (which is absurd on Hag), and nothing can get done. Nothing.
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Just a short question which I might make into a stand alone thread but which killer is one allowed to play atm that is not unfun to play against/op?
Atleast half the roster is occasionally brought up on the forums for the above mentioned reasons.
It's not that I really care to choose my killer after that but i think it would be interesting to know which killers are left to play without getting shamed for it.
Post edited by EQWashu on4 -
Honestly for me the biggest issue with hag is basement. If a teammate gets hooked in there it feels like the correct play is usually acting as if they're dead already. I'm glad BT works against her now though.
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This isn’t a permission thing.
This is about genuinely, unbalanced mechanics when going up against a Hag player.
There’s so very little that can be done if no one has flashlights, and they’re not SWF. Solo survivors may as well not even bother trying to participate in a match against even a semi competent Hag. There is literally no point bothering.
On the other side of the coin, I respect that flashlights counter Hag far too strongly as well.
She’s the most highly unbalanced mess in the entire game. This without going into some her ridiculous add ons.
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@TheClownIsKing I like you, have supported you for a long time, and appreciate your input for the most part but THIS, of all things, I'm not liking you for. I've respected you as a player who plays both sides, and understands their mechanics, but more and more recently we've been getting posts like this one wherein I find myself wondering if you've even tried playing the killer you are bemoaning at all?
While I admit that setting traps at hooks as Hag doesn't take much effort or strategy, I also counter that IF you are survivors against a hag, you should expect her to do this and approach each hooked survivor as if she's planted one, as well as leave the area for the same reason. Players who don't do this deserve what's coming for them. As for Hag in General She has many counters, even if you don't have a flashlight, but only an experienced Hag player would know these things, and have experienced defeat by survivors exploiting them.
Unfortunately, Your Post Reeks of survivor sided Bias, and that makes me sad. Of all the killers you could have picked on, you pick one of the least played, and Provided no evidence that you even played her to help us understand why you feel she is unbalanced, which only comes across as more banal survivor sided "x killer needs to be nerfed because" ranting that litters these forums.
I know you are better than this my friend. I admit, I've let my own emotions get the better of me in these forums (especially While Drunk, which I'm still working to own up to and apologize for), so please, I'm begging you to at least play her for a week or 2 if you're up for it and at the high ranks... after that, If you still feel sore about her balance then feel free to re-iterate this sentiment, otherwise please come back to us with a less biased assessment.
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@Aneurysm the BT change is helpful, but it doesn’t really do much to help. Using the basement example, Hag is already on her way back upon the unhook, she smacks the unhooked survivor coming up the stairs, then they go down upon setting off one of the traps that were avoided to try and do the save in the first place.
She’s broken. No killer should be able to freely pressure gens whilst simultaneously giving whoever is hooked zero chance whatsoever to re-engage with the game.
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She would have been changed by now if more people played her. It is just lucky that most people find her boring to play as as they do against.
She is unfair and i don't blame anyone that disconnects when they are the first one caught.
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If you are the antagonist then say good bye to your pip and probably a depip.
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agreed
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