People say Spirit is balanced because they haven't faced a good Spirit.
I'll be honest at first I thought Spirt was fine. A good balanced killer all these survivor mains on YouTube just crouching and doubling back movement to juke the Spirit and in low ranks it was true every Spirit I faced would loose like crazy. All these nerf Spirit people weren't doing it right. Then I faced a Spirit main. All these pro tricks were worthless she just downed and downed us. A 4 gen 5k. Since then and more good Spirts I realize all this "counterplay" is literally worthless against good Spirits. And not to mention her add-ons and Stridor. Which is a viable argument since people will run these commonly. One " counterplay" I hear is just run to the next loop. Something that works against a bad Spirit but good Spirits will recognize this and just down you later. 5 seconds is enough time for her to catch up to you and not to mention how likely it is add-ons are in play. As well just double back or crouch and wait. That's great against a bad Spirit. But a good Spirits will know you're doing this since they'll use their ears from all their time getting familiar with Spirit. And once more the likely chance she has add-ons and Stridor. So tell me people who say she has counterplay have the Spirits you've faced actually been good Spirits? And standing still isn't a skill
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You know what was a good counterplay to spirit? That bug she had a couple months back.
Post edited by meowzilla69 on1 -
Not facing a good Spirit is the most reliable Spirit counter out there.
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they dont even have to be good, just decent
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To play devil's advocate, most Spirit players are bad just like most survivors are bad, so technically these techniques do actually work a lot of the time.
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Spirit is broken killer, she is only one who has not counterplay. She needs some nerfs. I mean do not nerf her powers. Just add some counterplays, make her balance and then we all can be happy.
Who saying Spirit is not hard, they never played against good Spirit. I faced with so many God Nurses and i lost mot matches againts her but i never felt powerles but good Spirits gives me that feel.
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Just to explore this line of thought. Wouldn’t the killer after mastering the kit be oppressive. Just like a good survivor will seem untouchable because they know how to play very very well.
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How do you prove that success for killer is a result of design or player skill? I've encountered plenty of Spirits were the design could not carry the player. Any players that severely outclass you are gonna look OP from the victim perspective.
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Oppressive but you'd still have a chance. A master Hillbilly or Huntress you'll have a chance to make good counterplay against. But not a master Spirit. A master Spirit is unstoppable.
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And why are most Spirits bad? Because they get carried to high ranks with a braindead killer, having no actual skill themselves.
Just saying.
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And how often does this god tier Spirit show up? Almost never.
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I mean I’ve been running into a couple more often then not. Most of my spirit matches are the same people with thousands of addons for her and spend thousands of dollars on headphones for spirit.
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Really?
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99% of the Spirits you run into are mind gameable. The Spirits with expensive headphones and where those counter plays don't work is extremely rare. I can't even remember the last Spirit I ran into where I couldn't pull off some mind games on her, it's been months, and I play way more than the average player.
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As you said they havent faced a good Spirit, there are tons of people that think that spirit is being a op character, it really is but its not like the old freddy that didnt even have to practice to master, spirit takes hours and hours to max her, I passed weekslearning how to play as her, she is a really difficult character to play with, there is a lot of things you can do to counter Spirit, when at jungle gyms if you start to walk she will have to get out of the phase if she is a decent player as there are tons of possibilities there, you might double back, hide in a corner, you might vault the pallet, you might vault he window, the thing about spirit is her counter play, there are a lot of people who dont know how to play with and against her, so she is not actually op, she is being op because people dont know how to counter her.
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No, they really don't. The skill need for 'bad' Spirit is much lower for 'bad' Surv. Spirit was the first Killer I played. Against same rank Survs, it was always a 4K. I also picked up Trapper semi-recently and against equal ranked survs, I win more than I lose, but it's not a snooze fest. That's not even counting addons because I haven't used but maybe one or two basic addons as Killer.
Spirit faking a phase is an easy skill to learn and it obliterates most survs at a lot of loops and there is zero counter to it except hope and pray you guessed right.
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And in this whole text I havent even mentioned Iron Will as you said that it was the counterplay that pros told to be her unique counterplay, its really not, if you go against a good nurse you are going to see what is it to really have no known counterplay technique( when I mean technique Im not talking about using DH as someone might mention me to say).
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There are people who can loop decent spirit easy as you say, if you died to a decent spirit, you might not know how to counter her or you might not play that well to win decent spirit, Im not saying that you dont play well, absolutely not, Im just saying what might be happening.
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I agree that spirit might need some tweaking but I disagree with this logic.
Why is that that when it comes to survivors, people's logic is 'bad survivors can't use strong and God loops efficiently so they can stay' but when it comes to spirit, they take the scenario of a strong player and ignoring all the weaker ones out there.
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Master Hillbilly?! Those times are gone. There are no great Billy's around anymore. Same will happen when they nerf Spirit.
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Not a good spirit? But I thought she is super easy to master and 4k double pip machine
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She isn't Freddy levels of easy to learn but compared to other top tiers she is easier to master
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Spirit does take time to master she does. But compared to the other top tiers Nurse, Blight, Hag, Huntress, Oni or Pyramid Head she is easy. And the counterplay you described won't work against a GOOD Spirit who is easily familiar with what survivors will do because they're good at using their ears. Except Nurse against the best killers you have a chance a counterplay that doesn't come down to I hope she's inexperienced.
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:( Good Billy' still exist, we're just an endangered species.
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We're few but we still exist. And Spirit still needs changes regardless.
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An actual god tier Spirit is about as rare as a god tier Nurse.
You don't counter god tier S tier killers in the 1v1. You string the chase out as long as you can in the correct part of the map. Your teammates have to do gens and also know how to string the chases along in the right places. That's why those killers are S tier.
I think people just don't accept 1v4 for whatever reason. Just a difference of opinion I guess. I think it's just as fun for 4 survivors to have to coordinate and play well against an utterly oppressive 1v1 killer. Yeah, it can be frustrating when teammates have zero game sense to deal with killers like Nurse or Spirit, but I don't think those killers should be nerfed because of it.
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I mean, I was at first Hag main, I took less than a day to master her and in 1 month playing 1 hour a day I got to rank 1, she is easy to master compared to spirit, oni doesnt need focused training, I mean he need a good DPI on mouse and some mindgames, but nothing really difficult, when it comes to nurse thats true, spirit is easy to master when compared to nurse, ,Pyramid head is mind games and predictions as well, the others you said dont really need much practice.
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More an extinct species :P
Billy didn´t deserve his nerf.
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Agreed. I don't think people realize how fast chases have to be if the killer wants a chance at winning against good survivors that are trying to just do the gens and get out. Like chases over 25 seconds are losing you the game and even that's generous. IE how long people want the chases to last is non viable if the survivors are good.
Ideally I'd rather the matches be slowed down so that we can have those long (fun) chases without it costing the killer the game. Rather than the alternative of forcing fast chases (unfun) for the sake of competitiveness.
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What if add-ons and Stridor are in play?
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A killer who will at the end of the day will come down to how good you can hear. Takes more skill then Blight? If Oni is so easy then why aren't there many Onis? And Hag takes more then Spirit.
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I mean I'll say I didn't buy my meze empryean headphones for dbd. But they're pretty fun for dbd. Little bit of audiophile advice though. Most gaming headphones are better for the job then audiophile headphones as gaming headphones have more bass and thump to them. Their sound pick up match more what games tend to put out.
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So we admit that Spirit isn't braindead and their is skill to be learned from her power.
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It isn't that Spirit has no skill cap. It's how much counterplay there is once they are mastered. With most killers mastered you have a chance like Huntress, Oni, or Blight but what about Spirit what do you do? tricks like doubling back and vaulting that a Spirt with Stridor or good ears will beat easily.
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buy better headphones, that’s all
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that's just a no true scotsman.
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There are counter plays against the Spirit. For example when using haunting she moves fast but can't see the survivors. Only the scratch marks. Counter for that would to not leave scratch marks, once your not running and leaving scratch marks change direction.
I find Spirit is easier to counter than the Cannibal and he isn't that hard to counter.
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If you wear only a good headphonne and play against red ranks to get 4k you will see that sspirit really doesnt need just good headphones to master, if you think that is because you havent ever played against a key swf or a optimal squad.
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Blight is not even considered training to me as even with training you have to have luck that the game has put collision on than wall otherwise you will just slide throught it, and yes blight is preety difficult to master, I forgot to talk about Blight in my post.
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And no hag doesnt take more then spirit, I was hag main at first and I got to rank 1 between a month playing her, no teachable perks and no add-ons, if you want to compare hag and spirit, you have to compare the skills you need to have to polay hag so lets do that.
Spirit first, skills needed( talking about no perks against a Iron will optimal squad, and not saying about normal killer skills as m1 waiting DH, droping chases...) You need to know when to get out of the phase, mindgame the mindgame, hear foot steps and grass( as you cant hear breating and grunts of pain because of IW) where to go after getting the hook, ( if you dont know when to get out of the phase you need to know when the survivor is going for the window, pallet, double back or hiding in the corner of the jungle gym.
Hag second, skills needed: Know where to put traps that are gonna activate during chase, normal killer skills such as mindgames double backs and moonwalks, and know here to put traps that are gonna activate when going to a gen( trap placement in general).
Now lets see if the hag is really more difficult to master, it aint. Spirit is a better killer but takes more things to master( hearing, mindgames on the phase, getting out of the phase in the right time), and Hag is a worst killer and need to master less things( normal killer skills and trap placement, if yu want to consider fake trap placement as something to master, feel free). I might be missing something about the Hag skills, feel free to correct me if Im wrong.
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So what do you think about Nurse then? Double backs and stuff don't work on a good Nurse, right? I'm asking because I'm wondering if people aren't just using double standards.
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You can't just put them at loops smart survivors will know this and simply avoid the loop since Hag is so slow. And you can't just assume every teleport is a guaranteed hit survivors can have good reactions and avoid the hit. This leads to moments were a Hag has to decide to teleport or not. And the mental notes to constantly keep your area intact. Also for Spirit why use the example of a red rank squad but no with Hag. Because Spirit will have it much easier against a squad. And you're talking about the fair mindgame of standing still? The fun fair gameplay were a survivor doesn't know what's she's doing? And one more why not also bring Stridor and add-ons into play since we know they are common with Spirit? Since people will bring them.
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Nurse is also the same but she is much harder and bugged then Spirit. And much rarer.
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Well personally speaking i've heard how strong nurse / spirit are but don't play them simply due to the absolute bile of humanity you get when playing such killers, and that should speak to their rarity. Did play nurse back in the long long ago circa 2017ish before i had a long break from dbd (due to toxicity reasons) and it CERTAINLY isn't easy to play Nurse.... i imagine it's same with Spirit.
What's the cliche? "Everyone says congrats when you're pregnant but nobody asks how many times you got #########!" .... people hate and discourage players who've poured thousands of hours into a skill ignoring the fact that if you take like a 1k hour trapper vs a team of 1k hour survivors.... well that trapper is in for alot of teabagging....
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You can't balance a killer around the top 10% of players.
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People say nurse has good counter play dose that mean we haven't seen only bad nurses
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I went against a sweaty ass Spirit who killed all of us with no gens repaired, one very rare and ultra add on. She had devour, thrill of the hunt, stridor and I forgot the 4th perk. I mean that was probably the quickest game we've lost to a Spirit. And guess what??? I still think she's perfectly fine the way she is. Not all Spirits are sweaty she's just a killer who is a little more powerful.
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Yeah trickster would be the most oppressive killer then in that thinking never miss a knife with bounce to make any angle possible
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Wait so let me get this straight if you invest time or main a killer you will become better than those who only casually play that killer?
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What about them?
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Well isn't it important to decide a characters balance with add-ons and perks since they'll be ran?
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