People say Spirit is balanced because they haven't faced a good Spirit.
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Well isn't it important to decide a characters balance with add-ons and perks since they'll be ran?
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It's how fair it is for the other side once that killer is mastered. You still have a chance against a master Oni or Blight. But not a master Spirit.
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Then let's bring old Nurse back since she was only mastered by the top 10 percent. Since by that logic she was fine since only a few could master her.
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Well, when you talk about good spirits, then we have top tournaments where those spirits get destroyed by good survivors.
Everything else is just matchmaking.
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Same as survivors then.
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Yes it is.
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So when a Spirit is running Stridor which most do. With her good add-ons most of them. With other great perks. How much of a chance do you believe survivors will have?
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I keep saying the people who say Spirit has counterplay hasn't faced a good one or as Spirit they're not actually good the survivors are just trash. Then people just spew the whole "Learn to counter Spirit" argument without saying what counters are. All of the "drop the pallet early" arguments has been proven to be useless and that's pretty well the go to for a lot of killers.
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So what'd you do to avoid getting hit?
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I thought Spirit was fine but then I managed to get 4 iri emblem and 32k point game without perks and add-ons. Yeah Spirit needs somekind of a slight nerf/counterplay
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Quite a significant chance. The vast majority of Spirits you run into even at rank 1 are easily mind gameable. Most people just don't understand how to do it.
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Explain please what mindgames are possible against a good Spirit with Stridor.
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You basically have to be pro-active, not re-active. IE if you're looking for feedback from the Spirit you're already playing against her wrong.
You provide false information to her and force her to make a guess. There are many ways to do this, but one example would be sprinting to a window and the Spirits phasing after you. You fast vault, wait a couple seconds, then slow vault back over. All the Spirit got from this was tracks to a window and a loud vault. She now has to guess which side you committed to. While uninjured you have the advantage, while injured she does.
You can get as nit picky as you want and be like oh she can hear the soft breathing even while uninjured or the soft sound while slow vaulting back over, but let's be real here, 99% of the Spirits you face even in rank 1 matches are not hearing any of that. These mind games work on almost all the Spirits you go against bar the god tier Spirit with expensive headphones you see as rarely as you see a god tier Nurse, aka once every few months.
These mind games especially work because the vast majority of the community has no idea how to play against Spirit and instead come here to complain. Aka most Spirits don't expect these mind games because most people aren't actually using them which is why they work.
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So a guessing game? Which leads to gameplay as exciting as facing Freddy. And side question do you think Old Nurse was fine if only a few people could master her?
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Do you realize how much guessing is already in the game even aside from Spirit? A ton. It's nothing different than what we already have. Also, the difference between a mind game and a guessing is that one side provided false information to mislead the other. IE if we're getting technical, that scenario isn't even guessing. The real issue people have with her is how good she is, the "guessing" is an escape goat.
I did not think old Nurse was fine.
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While yes there is guessing involve at many loops. You can still physically see what a killer will be doing which other killer minus an insidious bubba. Where standing still is a viable strategy? And why do you think Old Nurse is fine now?
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This is very true for high level play on many killers. Spirit , nurse, hag, huntress, blight, and twins are great examples of killers with high skill caps that can be insanely oppressive when played very well. The counter to this arguement is survivors with great perks that are in comms and also have thousands of hours.... they win this battle with overwhelming regularity.... even against those killers. .... as is evidenced i tournaments.
I know the competitive scene is not your point, but having one player (killer) who is very good, is much more likely than having 4 survivors that are all very good, so it can seem unbalanced.
I almost exclusively solo queue so I feel you, but I think the feelings on killers are skewed by players with less than a thousand hours... and often only several hundred hours... and also rng of who you face, like you point out.
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It feels helpless against a Spirit. Against the other top tiers like OhTofu said in a video long ago you'll get a visual and audio cue of what the other killer is doing allowing for a chance for fun gameplay but that's gone since you don't what she's doing.
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"While yes there is guessing involve at many loops. You can still physically see what a killer will be doing which other killer minus an insidious bubba."
You generally cannot see what the killer is doing for any of those "guesses" at loops bar like shack. If you could see them then there would be no guesses.
"Where standing still is a viable strategy?"
Because lots of people play bad and fall for it. You never guess into her body first of all. You sprint for a direction for a couple seconds to make her think you've commited which forces her phase then you slow walk or stand still. Once again she is forced to make a random guess. Again we can nit pick small nuances here if you want, but the vast majority of Spirits you're facing this stuff works on. I do it all the time.
"And why do you think Old Nurse is fine now?"
That isn't what I said. I never said Old Nurse is fine now. All I said was Old Nurse was not fine. Those are different things.
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At loops you can use factors like hearing the killer footsteps, breathing, and the red stain. When Spirit is phasing you have nothing to work with but guessing. Slow walk or stand still. Doesn't work against a good Spirit or one with Stridor. And you said I did not think Old Nurse was fine. the did suggests you use to believe this. And why wasn't she fine. By your logic because only a few could master her she would be fine like Spirit. And are Haddonfield loops fine because only a few know how to properly use them.
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Yes but if you pay attention to what she did the first time ( you have two hits before you go down generally) then you can try to anticipate that the next two times. Spirit is a chaser so good spirits wont camp you, giving you more time to learn their behavior. It is not a quick fix or a GREAT strat, but there are things you can do to keep them guessing as well. perks you can take, but you wouldnt usually run unless you know its a spirit... there is a reason she is the top killer in the game in many peoples minds. To a certain extent the same is true for nurse and blight and ranged killers. The amount of times I have faced a truly great spirit is small... most people who have thousands of hours in killer do not play her or nurse. I personally feel that it is too strong and not that fun as a killer either... someitmes you just need that 4k for archives or 12 hooks and you know you can get it with her .... so its fun but the "spirit mains" are very very rare.
I dont mean to discount any points here, I AGREE that she is SUPER strong in the right hands... the problem is that most people that dont have 20-50 spirit matches under their belt get a skewed idea of this. Also people should buckle up... it took years to "nerf" billy and nurse.... and if you look at their roadmap and plans to focus on balance for new killers. I doubt they have much time to look at spirit in year 6. She would need an overhaul
I look at it like this. IF I play meyers, wraith, demo, clown, doc, or someone that has clear counter play.... and I face good survivors wiht unbreakable, BT, decisive, soul guard, iron will, great items, etc. I am in for a very rough day
At red ranks I can tell you killer gets very stressful some games... and some games you know you outclass the survivors from the get-go.... and some games are in between. Most there are 2-3 good players but when its all 4, things can reaaallllyyyy suck.
I made a second account after 3k hours in the game to see what it wsa like at lower ranks and I intentionally didnt double pip. There is a HUGE difference in low ranks. Survivors have less exp and hide more, killers can get run all game and dont break loops, and there is clear distinction in killers being carried by addons or the killer they play.
against killers that have 2-5k hours.... they can generally play most if not all killers at a higher level than a spirit or nurse with 20ish games on that killer... they have high skill caps.
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Even good Spirits make mistakes and don't guess right, trust me. Just watch some tournament matches and see how you can waste a Spirits time perfectly.
This is like the default argument: "Oh you mindgamed her? Than she's not good! Oh you couldn't mindgame her? See, she has no counterplay, there was absolutely nothing you could do!"
I've faced some Nurses with 6k hours and it felt like there is no counterplay. Like they completely foresee every of your jukes. Nonetheless, no one would ever say she has no counterplay.
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No offense but I don't think the logic because only a few can or do it so it's not a big deal others use this isn't good. That is saying loops like House of Pain and infinites are fine because only a few survivors know how to use it. Old DS was fine because only a few abused it same with old OoO. Old Nurse despite everything was fine because only a few could master her. And Old Freddy wasn't oppressive because only a few used double chains and mega slowdown. So should we bring these things back because only a few would or know how to do it?
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Nurse will give you audio and visual cues a chance to react.
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"At loops you can use factors like hearing the killer footsteps, breathing, and the red stain."
You are generally not hearing footsteps or beathing of the killer, and the red stain is gone because everyone moon walks to hide the light. So yes, those are guesses.
"When Spirit is phasing you have nothing to work with but guessing. Slow walk or stand still. Doesn't work against a good Spirit or one with Stridor."
It works against the vast majority of even decent Spirits. The Spirit is guessing, not the survivor. This is also at rank 1 I'm talking about, so especially all these people complaining that are in lower ranks would have all these things working against those Spirits.
"And you said I did not think Old Nurse was fine. the did suggests you use to believe this. And why wasn't she fine. By your logic because only a few could master her she would be fine like Spirit. And are Haddonfield loops fine because only a few know how to properly use them."
You are assuming things that I'm not implying or saying. You've immediately taken the assumption that because I point out how rare god tier Spirits are, that it is also the reason why I should have thought old Nurse was fine. That's not my sole reasoning. Even a god tier Spirit has some counter play because even in worst the worst case scenarios you can just early pallet drop, but you couldn't even do this against old Nurse. They are not the same. They were on different levels. This is even talking solely base kit, throw addons in and that's another one of old Nurses issues and another difference between the two. IE the skill requirement and rarity of them showing up isn't the only factor, there are multiple other reasons.
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Look obviously we're not agreeing on this I've tried this counter play everyone says works it doesn't a good Spirit will just hear you stop moving and down you survivors make noise. Especially with Stridor. This counterplay is assuming the Spirit won't hear you which good Spirit's will hear you Slow walk or standing still doesn't work we see videos again and again of a good Spirit hearing this and just hitting you and ending the game. if you somehow juke she could just have her add-ons to cover this mistake. And she can just phase around the pallet not that hard. Your mind isn't changing and mine isn't. So respond if you want. And would you care if Spirit got nerfed?
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Completely true.
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Spirit doesn't need nerfs.
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well... I almost couldn't do anything. 😂
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Isn't that the point of being good? Shouldn't you win? I mean this isn't Monopoly. The more skilled player should win and the killer should have a slight advantage since it's 4V1. It shouldn't be equal or else than it's unfair. The killer should have more power.
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Good Spirit will always win, some people don't want to lose their easy wins that's why they say she's okay
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the complain about nurse and spirit are both good and understandable but rarely see a nurse that plays that good, spirit on the other hand is way easier to find, and way easier to play with.
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