There is no Gen-rush?
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I'm assuming it'd be a Bubba that could easily make that happen.
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I think Otz made actually a kyf video where he managed to down all of them in about 20 seconds.
Killers op confirmed. Nerf killers!
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It was stated in the BHVR twitter news a couple of month ago.
68% is actually a lot. Ideally the game should be balanced around 50% oder 2 k.
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New perk from Nemesis will stop this lol xD. But I mean I feel like how often can you pull this off?
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68% is like 2.5 kills on average. Which honestly isn't that bad.
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If I bust my ass for a 2k every match, I would never play killer again. 68% still isn't 75%, which would be an average of 3k's every game. So there is some killers who can get 3k's per match more than 2k's but some can only get 2k's. If its like that, that's balanced. A killers' skill matters. Trying to make it so no matter what a killer does, he/she can only get a 2k wouldn't be worth playing killer then.
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Why should a survivor play that game if he dies in 3 out of 4 matches?
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To improve themselves and get better so they escape more.
Like it's average Kill Rate you are talking about which factors everyone. Some individuals likely have lower escape rates while others likely have higher escape rates.
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Because there are 4 of you. If 3 people get smashed because they aren't able to get away or stall a killer for time with the amount of pallets on the map with time on their side, why should the killer be punished for doing his/her job? If the killer is chasing and camping people, they usually lose with a 1k, maybe 2k for their efforts due to NOED.
A good killer who is punished because survivor's aren't staying on gens or can't escape the killer with pallets, that's on them. Why should a killer play just to get a 2k no matter how well they do? Why would I want to play a game where no matter how good I got, no matter how hard I played, I have a handicap to make 2 people feel good about themselves when its a 4 vs 1? If 2ks become the norm, I BET you'll stop seeing killers.
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Killrushing happens 99% of all games, when an overwhelming majority of matches ends in a 4K. All it takes is a skilled killer and said killer never loses.
A coordinated genrush team beating a rank 17 trapper just means you fought a noob killer. The game is unplayable for the majority of games, and for anyone new joining the game. Something needs to be done with killers being overpowered.
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Same is valid for killers when they achieve only 1 or 0 kills.
Dude, you know what average means? You can still 4 k even when a game is balanced around 25% or 1 k. There is a statistical term called variance.
You can see it the other way? Why should a good team be punished by the game being balanced to the killer side on average with even bad killers receiving 2 k vs a very experienced survivor group?
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The game is more balanced than it has been since its inception in the genre. Right now, 3k's are usually by the best killers, not an average. If they keep trying to add "balance" so to get a 3k means you have to bust your ass and a 4k being a myth, that is a problem.
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You have no idea how statistics works.
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Sadly game is not balanced and survivorside. If game would be fair, kill rates would be +80% because most survivors are not good. Just they carrying by survside maps.
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I know enough to get me around. 75% would mean all games end in a 3k. Right now, a majority is a mixture of 2k's and 3k's with the majority being 3k's over all. If they're using the same statistics for Rank 20 killers and survivor's added in, a rank 15-20 killer will mostly 3k-4k, distorting the actual numbers. If we take that out, I bet statistics would say the average is closer to a majority of 2k's per match at higher ranks. That's if you lump all killers together.
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I just want to add to this, gen tapping also makes any sort of pressure you have just null as well. For instance, I was in a game the other day chasing someone away from a gen that I had just kicked, but every time I'd just start to chase someone would come and just tap the gen then run. So I'd kick and the original guy is back, loops me, taps gen and continues to run. I dunno, but to me I really don't think that's fair that you can stop gen regression just by tapping it. Seems kinda cheap especially when you consider that killers have to do the full animation for any action they do.
I know I know, "gen regressing perks" yeah well...if you're playing a killer who doesn't have any gen regressing perks then ######### do you want me to do? Go rub the magic lawn gnome's belly and just wish for one to sprout up in a match? Again the whole tapping thing that survivors do just feels kinda cheap and feels more like an exploit of a bad system.
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I've made a suggestion to fix that. Nerf Pop by 10% and give base kicks a 3% regress and take off Tier 3 Ruin and add a 25% faster regression by default. This way, running those won't kill the survivor's too much but the killer has better reasons to kick gens now by default. You gen tap, you lose 3% for the trouble.
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Actually....yeah that doesn't sound like a bad trade off at all actually. Actually I was thinking the other day why don't killers have like a base % that they take off with the initial kick and before the regression starts? That coooouuuld theoretically bring up gen pressure and make gen rushing a little harder to do if small bit of progress gets taken off first before regressing. But then again judging by my short time on these forums so far I'm sure someone will come up with a counter point to why that's a terrible idea and why gen tapping and hook tapping are all good things to keep in the game =/.
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I don't see the issue since the perks will get a slight nerf, but in return, base killer kicks will actually matter now.
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Yeah exactly. No I'm all for this, I think that's actually a pretty solid idea. Like you said it would make gen kicking matter a bit more and be a little more effective even without perks.
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Oh, they cleansed your Ruin? You can still get a decent amount of regression. You have Pop? You get 15% plus 3% plus 25% base regression faster still. Base Pop is 25% so its only 18% but you still get the faster regression over all. This way, you still get a bit of regression no matter if you're perk less or not.
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What defenders of gen rush don't understand is that we're more mad at the fact that this gen speed is even possible. What if it is a rare occurrence? (it isn't) The fact that it's even possible to get all gens done in less than 5 minutes WITH the killer playing their best is what's wrong with this game.
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Survivors literally throwing themselves at the killer and giving up in 2 minutes is not the same as getting gen rushed in 2 minutes. In both scenarios, survivors are in control of the outcome.
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Killers can only chase 1 person at a time....you can't NOT commit....they'll just heal back up in the time it takes you to finish another chase and you have to start all over.
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3k, 2k , 4k NONE OF THAT MATTERS!!!!
Guys for the love of god. That score doesn't reflect anything other than "people died" They could have died because they killed themselves on the hook, they could have died because it was their last hook, they could have died because of a bear trap, they could have died trying to be greedy and find the hatch at end game but time ran out.
None of that has anything to do with the speed of the game. Trapper had an opportunity for 2 or 3 chases that ENTIRE MATCH.....THERE IS NO INTERACTION LIKE THAT.
A MATCH THAT IS OVER IN 2 MINUTES BEFORE YOU EVEN HAVE A CHANCE TO SEE THE KILLER OR DO ANY OTHER OBJECTIVES IS NOT A MATCH!!!!
I play pig, all day long...and I don't play any other killers in this game without thano+dying light because you can't afford to NOT have them in your kit. If you don't have them, gens will fly left and right before you get a chance to really do anything. And its especially bad for killers who have set up time, and Tier charges, like Myers, and Trapper, and now Nemesis.
GEN TIMES HAVE BEEN BUSTED AND ABUSED FOR OVER 2 YEARS! THATS WHY NOBODY BOTHERS PLAYING ANY OTHER KILLERS! THERE IS NO VIABLE TIME IN GAME TO MAKE THE FULL KILLER ROSTER VIABLE OR BUILD ANYTHING DIVERSE WHEN MATCHES CAN BE DROPPED IN 3-4 MINUTES!
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Sadly game is not balanced and killerside. If game would be fair, kill rates would be <20% because most killers are not good. Just they carrying by killerside maps and perks.
Your statement disqualifies you as serious disputant.
BS. Google variance.
Average kill rate and average kill rate balancing has nothing to do with actual kill rate in each game. They still might be a great dispersion with a lot of 4 k and 0 k.
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With the same logic BHVR should delete all killers with snowball potential: Infectious Nurse, Oni, Billy, Bubba, Myers because they are able to win a game in literally one minute.
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Strange. If I dont want to get gen rushed I put on perks like ruin, corrupt, undying or pop. Not thana or dying light.
Maybe thats the reason why you complain about genspeed. Because the perks I named work literally on every killer and are also the perks I always care about playing survivor.
Thana and Dying light are mediocre perks and dont bother me at all.
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Someone who is healing themselves keeps them off of gens unless they want to take a chance to get tagged in the open on a gen. You can always prioritize. If someone is good at loops, leave them and search gens. You can usually get at least a hit on someone who is working on a gen and since they use pallets, make them use it, break it and go back to the gen to check.
When I say pressure gens, I'm talking about removing survivor's off of the closest ones that are together and don't follow a survivor across the map if a majority of the gens are nearby. Keep them there to break the pallets. By the time the ones in the back are done, they're forced to work on the gens with all the pallets broken nearby.
I do this almost every match unless I play Freddy or Demo. Once someone is hooked, they can either let them die but they still can't do gens because you're near everything and there is no more safe pallets around or you hook trade and redo the same steps. If you spend 4 minutes chasing a survivor, you chose to lose by default. You have to learn to juggle and prioritize. Always choose areas that have the majority of gens near each other and do your best to break those pallets.
Most survivor's will stay on one side of the map while that person is being chased so they don't get in the chase and can focus on gens. That's how you beat them. If they attempt to do the gens in the majority group, you attack. After awhile, you WILL either have hurt everyone or no gens are being done. Self-Care takes awhile, saving gen time for you to chase someone else. Focus on the majority of gens closest together. That's how you play Rank 1 Killer and I play every killer. I even got videos of me playing Rank 1 as different killers so don't say you can't do something. Its map knowledge and knowing your tiles. That's what wins chases.
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The so called gen slowdown perks are all trash. Not a single one is great, but killers use them, because they desperately want to slowdown gens.
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But the survivors have to absolutely throw for that to happen. Why would you all be that close to each other and all go down that quickly? And there's a difference between winning in 1 minute and winning in the first minute.
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Yeah, I'd rather have 4 fun perks instead of 4 gen defence/info perks, but here we are.
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Then don't use them. The devs just look at the stats, see that everyone uses them, think they did a pretty good job and won't change anything in that regard.
It's one of the reasons I stopped using NOED. Devs see 2 or 3 kills and think everything is fine, while the killer just got 4 or 5 hooks during the whole match.
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This is not an uncommon scenario.
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Ruin is absolute dog ######### after the nerfs, don't even mention that perk, its only use is a free generator kick.....thats it. It kicks gens for you when a survivor decides to stop pressing M1 woooooo.... outta here with that garbage. Pop requires you to down someone first....WHICH IN A GEN RUSHING SITUATION MEANS NOTHING!!! When you're getting gen rushed you may only get 2-3 chases in the scenario the op listed especially if you're on a killer who's kit hamstrings you with extra nonsense like Nemesis, Trapper, Myers. Corrupt intervention doesn't stop it either, you can still pop gens at break neck speed, all corrupt does is make sure 3 OF THE GRAND TOTAL 7 Don't get touched for 2 minutes....THATS STILL 4 GENS YOU CAN DO IN 3 MINUTES! <----And your pressure is gone after 2 minutes. Thats the problem with Ruin+Undying, and Pop (pop being extra dumb because you have to possibly waste yet another slot to read gen progress from a distance, and or deal with walking all the way back to wherever the gen was. Thana+Dying Light counter it by giving you permanent stacks on hooks, plus a constant scaling counter to the survivor perks used to rush gens in the first place. 1 hook is 8%, which is enough time to get the snowball rolling.
I used to be a meta goofy too running ruin and pop but its a stupid waste of time since the nerf, especially if your totem gets dropped at the start of the match. (Not that it helped in the first place since ITS NOT SLOWING ANYBODY DOWN WHOS ACTIVELY WORKING ON A GEN WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF SLOWING THE GAME DOWN...)
Its just crazy to me that survivors get on here and pretend its not a problem (As long as you're winning I guess right?) But then keep jumping up and down calling for more and more nerfs of things that weren't even powerful to begin with (looking at you green and yellow mori's, and also looking at every killer release on PTB where survivors cry about stupid ######### thats weaker than the kits we already have....)
Good thing BHVR is setting up AI ahead of time since that'll likely be what survivors end up facing in most of their games when the actual killer players have enough and ditch. Or you end up in the same match 3 times in a row against the same die hard Nurse and Spirit player match after match.
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You can't seriously say you don't commit your chases. If someones working on a gen right in front of you as you're chasing someone else thats a free hit. But thats not really an issue, common sense dictates that. But most chases survivors aren't brash enough to sit in your face while you're chasing their team mate. Most of the time you're a decent distance away from other survivors. Sure you can tag that guy and leave.....but he can still take that opportunity to crank out a gen. Then you have to waste more time walking across the map to find someone else. Again, you can only chase 1 person at a time, at ANY given time (unless you're bubba or one of these new killers with multi proj downing multiple people in one blow. Just like in the video, the trapper could have come in and knocked everybody off that gen, but as soon as he starts chasing someone else the rest of his team can just jump right back on.
Lets see you take on the same team, unprepared, unaware....and see how that goes...yes, even at rank 1. When you do, (and when you lose) come post that. I'll be waiting with my Monto catch phrase in hand and an extra jar of sweat to cover up all that fun you could have had, if the game didn't allow nonsense like that.
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If I remember correctly Otz beat a team in around a minute as Plague.
I'm not including the time at the end it takes him to hook the survivors because this post is only counting the time it takes to do all 5 gens.
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Update: 1 Minute 59 Sek - Poorly i was sleeping but i will try to get on the VOD to post it here :)
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Even though Gen time is extremely fast, but for me its totally fine for current game state. Killer can not using Slow down perk, in replaced with Exhaustion (star truck, Devour, Haunted ground, MYC..) And that does slow down the game somehow by forcing them play more immersive. There are also Killers who tunneling, combined with top tier Killer & powerful add-on.
2nd Objectives should only added when there is a mechanic that totally remove camping & tunneling.
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^ This.
I personally don't run gen slow-down perks. I don't wanna, they're boring. I'd rather run a fun meme-y build, even if it means I have to cycle through matches before finally getting a chance to really use it. If survivors wanna come in, rush through gens, and leave without making hardly any points, that's fine, I'll get into another match almost instantly.
Gens are a bad mechanic in general. Sitting in one spot holding M1 for over a minute is not thrilling gameplay. This is generally accepted as true, which is why no one wants longer gen times, but the things can be completed so damn fast. I don't think there's a happy medium here because games are supposed to be fun but gens are so [BAD WORD]ing boring.
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The often proposed solution would be additional objectives like gas cans, fixing cables or finding gen parts.
Which is more interesting than holding m1 for ages.
But the devs don't seem to consider those changes. Which brings us back to the statement that survivors get balanced around low skill gameplay, while killers get balanced around high skill gameplay.
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Some sort of change to the gameplay is really needed.
I never played F13 but I heard a bit about it. Having different objectives that could be done sounded nifty. Every single DbD map comes down to the same thing: there are gens, find them and sit on them. You're in a junk yard? Fix gens. You're in a school? Fix gens. You're in a secret lab, a police station, the Old West? Fix gens. And that's it. It's not even like, "Fix gens and light the candles on the Yamaoka shrines." It's just fix gens.
In some ways it feels like DbD's gameplay is a placeholder that never got built on. Gens with no other objectives. Hooks and one mori, no other kill animations, no environmental kills. Survivors can hide... in lockers, but nowhere else. There are no map hazards.
Sorry, I'm veering off topic. Gen times are bad and need fixing. A while back the devs mentioned an early game slowdown, but I don't know whether that's still in the works or totally scrapped. My guess would be they don't know how to balance an early game slowdown so they're not disproportionately buffing killers who can already dominate without it.
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Killing all team in around minute is so rare. But generators are so fast. Generator times is reason so many killer mains stopped play.
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They said that they turned the early game slowdown into something else. Nobody knows what that could mean. Apparently the gen speed is no issue for them.
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Gen rushing to the extent shown in this post is rare. Very, very, very, very rarely does a team go into a match with the sole intent of rushing all the gens as fast as possible. Even less of those teams are good enough to pull it off.
It's the same rarity as a killer using Infectuous Fright and destroying a team in under a minute. Otz did it with Plague but I've seen my mate do it with a Nurse.
My point is if a really good player/team desides to go in and rush the objective instead of earning points and actually letting the game last is going to eventually get a stupidly quick game.
Does it prove slugging or killer is OP when they do it? No
Does it prove survivors are OP and gens needed nerfed? No
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I did not said that video case is common, that is also rare. But generators are still so fast. Losing 3 gens with first hook is common, so many times that happening. Killer has to defend last 2 gen. And if you will say, losing 3 gens in early game is not common, possibly you never played as killer on high ranks.
Problem about this game, early game survivorside. There is so much pallets and good loops. And most times survivors respawning different locations. So if you chase one of them, other 3 still on gens and even you patrol your generators, you are losing 2 or 3 gens so early and fast. And that makes killer games sweaty and hard. And that has to change.
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Gen slowdown perks are very strong. Almost every good killer use some of them depending on their builds.
Gradually I can see the problem: People here complain about gen speed but don't actually use slow down perks but rather prefer meme builds or trash perks like thanatophobia or dying light.
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Which ones are very strong?
- the one that regresses the gen at half the speed a single survivor would take to repair?
- the one that regresses 20 seconds of gen progress (if a single survivor repairs the gen, 11 seconds if its 2 survivors)?
- the one that blocks the gens that are furthes away from the killer and sometimes prevents survivors from 3 genning themselves?
- the one that increases the gen repair time the more survivors are injured, changing the repair time from 80 seconds to 96 seconds, when a single survivor repairs it?
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Most survivors are not good, but they still deserve fun and fair matches - just like the poor rank 17 killer from the OP's video, who certainly wasn't that good either. Maybe the solution would rather be to match this man against the many average survivors, and everyone will have a good time.
If we nerf survivors/buff killers so much that every not so good killer has a fair chance against a cherry-picked experienced sweaty team who doesn't want to play a normal DbD match like the majority of survivors do but tune every little thing in their load out up to the max to prove some point, then who's left to play against the majority of "average skilled" survivors?
So again, I believe the first step should be the ranking/matchmaking system.
And finally a more general remark on this thread, it's not the end of the world if two gens pop by the time the first survivor is downed. If the killer mentally throws the game at this point because the internet told him that it's hopeless because he's a victim of poor balance, then it's really the killer's problem. The last generator(s) can go really, really slow and often enough don't get done at all.
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I agree the early game is definitely survivor favoured. Spawns can also be really bad for killer.
Though I will say losing 3 gens in the early game is very rare for me. I always run Corrupt and I usually get either 1 or 2 downs before it ends. Worst case scenario I lose 1, maybe 2 but not 3.
With Corrupt the only time you lose 3 gens is if your chasing a survivor way too long. I made that mistake last night as demo and lost 2 gens just because I chased a very good survivor at shack.
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