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Why do we excuse Nurse?
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The reason nurse stays like that because it's extremely rare to face nurse that you feel completely hopeless. Similarly survivors are very OP if you face good survivor team who knows what they are doing. I highly doubt you are good nurse either.
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So what? You can win with any other killer easily against these teams as well.
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She should not be changed, she should be given huge perk limitations tho, in line with what i posted in that other thread
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This isn't a competitive game, so no it doesn't.
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Exactly this.
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No, actually, it's a lot more challenging than as Nurse. She's a killer that requires basic practice and then completely levels out for most opponent skill levels, then ramps back up for the best survivors.
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This too.
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I understood what you said, but even tho you cant loop a good nurse, there are tons of things you can do without having to do loops, if you gen rush against her even tho one guy is down, there will be 2 gen by 1 down, thats not really debatable if its killer ided or survivor sided, if you ccan get the save and get downed and another half gen is done, then this game is almost won.
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Still though. How does that make her unbalanced? Are we just going to cater to bad survivors? If they have issues with heating Nurse then they need to get good.
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By perk limitations do you mean you can't run certain perks?
I'd be fine with that actually. Nurse shouldn't be able to run slowdown perks. Thats actually too much. So basically just disable all slowdown for her, right?
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This. Except for Spirit. You quite literally can't counterplay her.
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Exactly:
This should just NOT be allowed. Actual convo with the first one, they think they were actually a good nurse player. Fun games btw /s (even though I actually escaped from the IF one but she was god awful). Point is, there isn't much skill required to stomp the vast majority of the playerbase with these builds. You can consider yourself garbage if people manage to do more than a couple of gens while running this stuff.
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Yeah that's really BS. Personally, I don't run slowdown besides Corrupt, which I think shouldn't be banned personally. Without it I will just not find anyone until three gens are done, and then I'll have to slug them all, and it's just not fun.
But other than Corrupt, every slowdown should be disabled on her, the way that the Moon Bouquets are disabled.
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The same way Freddy and Spirit are, her effort isn't equal to her reward, except Nurse players are heaped with u fair and undue respect because most of them are just bullying bad players that can't do anything about it because there's always a weak link and then getting praise heaped on them.
Either the attitude towards Nurse has to change, or the attitude towards Deathslinger, Stridorless Spirit and Pyramid Head has to.
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Survivors excuse Nurse's, because most Nurse's you run into aren't very good. And a Bad Nurse will get destroyed by a survivor with half a brain.
Killers excuse Nurse, because they like their toy. They see it as: Survivors have SWF, Killers have Nurse. (You'll even see it in this very topic!)
Is Nurse a problem? From a balance standpoint I'm going to give an answer killers really won't like: Yes, she's a problem. She's why they can't have too many good things, because on Nurse they'd be super oppressive. No other killer can ignore the game's basic mechanics in a way she can. Hag comes close, but even Hag doesn't reach Nurse's level. Nor does Spirit. Spirit has problems of her own.
I think before we even begin to address Nurse, though, we need to bring other killers up to at LEAST high B tier. Any killer below that level needs some buffs, so that more killers are viable. Only then should we really start to think about addressing her (or even if she needs addressed at all, if Solo Queue gets buffs as well.)
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I respect Stridorless Spirit. Those are really fun games since I run IW, and it's an actual mindgame.
I hate Slinger, but I also don't think he takes no skill, I just think he's boring to go against.
Since when does anyone have an issue with PH?
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How would you go about changing her?
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Because PH's mindless, cheap, easy playstyle still exists and is still very strong (only going for animation locked hits and otherwise faking your power and m1ing). Lots of PH players actually try and use skill in their trials because that gets boring very quickly, so it's very rare to encounter these days.
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I think he's fine honestly. I haven't gone against this playstyle since they nerfed him.
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Homestly, neither have I, but I myself was doing it a few days ago just to prove it was still possible. I really do think it's one of the few examples of something being so boring people actually stopped it.
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Probably.
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Look at all the Survivor mains rushing to get the last thing in the game that's still challenging ruined, hahah.
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Been playing nurse since the literal day of her release in 2016, also played beta. I have seen everything. Do I hardly lose? Yes. (434 winstreak currently) Do I run into hard SWF's that make the game over? Yes, they hard games but I win them 95% of the time. But there is counterplay to nurse, I have ran into plenty of people that make the chases longer then they should, in this game you should ALWAYS be caught, as there is 3 other survivors probably doing objectives. You can counterplay her, its just that you will eventually be caught as it should be.
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Where have i said she should be nerfed? I only once openly said a killer should be nerfed (as far as i remember) and that was Freddy, for good reasons.
My problems are those arguments on this forum when it comes to s-tier killer threads, something like "but i have to play xy so i can keep up with all the death squads that i face 99% of the time" which is just BS. You can play whatever killer and get good with them and you will do just fine in most matches.
Btw i don't know how Nurse could be nerfed or adjusted in a reasonable way, but i think as soon as you are getting good with her, you will stomp all of the pub squads. And btw i'm also for nerfing swf (and buffing solo). Tournament Dbd shouldn't be an indicator as it is a very niche approach to this casual party game.
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I could be wrong, but I feel like it's too late to rework Nurse. She definitely should have been disabled on release and reworked entirely, but considering there are so many people that spent hundreds of thousands of hours just to learn her, I'd just feel bad honestly.
Maybe it isn't too late because there's people here that think she isn't as hard as people give her credit for.
Nurse is a really controversial killer. IMO I think she's alright to stay in the game because no one really has the audacity to try her out for a few hours, but meh.
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I think the devs are done with nurse, that’s why none of her bugs have been fixed for so long. As for my input, I personally like facing nurse. It’s something different and challenging.
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The only thing I'd change about Nurse is if a Nurse is present on the map certain obstacles be made higher to line of sight her more. Basically just alter the map if Nurse is picked. I'd delete all addons that buff her power in any way stat wise also like faster blink recovery or blink speed.
Nurse / Blight are my main two killers btw before I come off as biased etc. I mean I kind of am but as a killer not a survivor.
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You know for all this nurse hate, survivors have a million perks that counter everything a killer can do. Accept you can get a good nurse and lose sometimes. its a game. you cant win um all. geeze.
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That build will destroy 95% of the player base with any killer. Survivors aren’t good at the game……
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I think a lot of people are confusing what good game balance is. DbD is a unique asymmetrical game, and doesn't have to follow the same rules as other competitive games with ranked modes; that's okay.
But like I said when I started this discussion, having a character be really mechanically intensive and very hard for new players that happens to have the highest skill ceiling in the game as compensation IS NOT good game balance. You can personally think Nurse deserves to be the only killer who can twist the game with enough skill, but for a game that tries to reach into the competitive side, that is not a good look.
SWFs? Strong survivor perks? Counterplays? Sure, I understand where you're coming from and you deserve to be heard, but that's not something I was trying to get into here. I'm not even asking for nerfs or reworks to ruin Nurse. Just genuinely curious why her issue with game balance is swept under the rug.
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It's a gen slowdown build. Something a desperate killer who struggles with the current gen speed would use.
Nothing OP. It's not even something that would help the killer shorten the chase.
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Well, but that is the answer. We excuse Nurse because high level SWF Teams exist. One monster made to fight against the other monster.
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Which should tell you about the current state of the game…. No matter how fast you chase, you will lose the game without gen slowdown.
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Nurse has counterplay. If survivors are getting blown away by a Nurse, it's a matchmaking issue, not a Nurse issue. The devs currently have no idea how to determine player skill. Emblems are laughable. Rank 1 loses all meaning when 300 hours = 3000 hours in the matchmaking algorithm. I routinely lose when I get matched with or do custom matches with players at my skill level on Nurse. It's just rare to have it happen through regular matchmaking. But yeah, often 10-20 second chases because 80 hour Andy is rank 1 and rank 1 = rank 1.
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Exactly!
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I don't know, man. People say Spirit is OP, Freddy, Demogorgon, Deathslinger, now Wraith. But they ignore Nurse? I really can't wrap my head around it.
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I excuse the nurse purely cause of all the bugs. If someone can master nurse, and all her bugs. And still 4k. By all means.
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It is a question what you want to balance around. You are right, but if you balance nurse around her potential, then you have to balance other aspects of the game as well, most notibly swf.
The argument usually is that not all swf are squad teams and you shouldn´t balance around the top players, but then the same argument has to be true for killers. You cant just have double standards here, at least in my opinion.
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Nurse is fine imo the only version of nurse I disliked playing against was 5 blink nurse when it existed
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There is a rule in FantasyRPGs for magical weapons being worth to keep.
If it has a very strong bonus vs a rare beast (like a +5 against dragons or something) it still might be worth less than a magical weapson with a small bonus for something common (+1 against orcs).
And this might be the same, rather get the killers nerfed you see all the time instead of a stronger one you almost never encounter.
The problem is that the complains never end. They complain about a killer until he gets nerfed, then move on to the next killer. Then they complain about queue times and only seeing the same killers (that need a nerf, of course). And round and round it goes.
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I come from a MOBA background. In MOBAs, when a character's skill floor is so high, and the skill ceiling is even higher, that character should get reworked. When a character has the lowest win rate overall, but the best performance at the highest level, that character is begging to be changed.
If you're interested, check this out: https://www.smitegame.com/news/developer-update-persephone/
Compare SMITE's Persephone to Dead by Daylight's Nurse. The parallels are shockingly similar, and actually inspired me to make this post...
I beg everyone to take the time to compare the two, and maybe you'll come to understand why Nurse deserves to be looked at in some fashion.
I may even end up fleshing out this comparison in another discussion post because it shows why and how a character like Nurse in DbD is chosen to be reworked based off of metric data (pick + ban rate and overall win rate) and perception of strength.
Post edited by Shooby on0 -
Yeah dude, even the devs act like that. Everyone says this is a casual game but then you see the devs slapping unnecessary cooldowns on Nurse and Billy that made them much less fun to play because they needed to be more """skill based""".
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As a survivor main, this post is ridiculous. Most Nurses are the easiest killers to bully, it should be rewarding to master a killer as hard as her. We need more Nurses and less Spirits, who can be mastered in like two games.
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Pretty much, all either of them needed was their add ons adjusted but the devs like to over do it on nerfs.
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I feel like nurse for now should be left alone until more killers are actually viable at red ranks. We should focus on giving killers that are pushed at the back some love rather than nerfing the only few strong killers
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Problem with that statement is if everything got balanced around high level swf's then the rest of the games are just going to sway one way everytime. I rarely see these high level swfs games. I think the problem with most of the powerful killers is they have a extremely spammy power then combined with spammy perks like infectious fright and tinkerer just makes it even worse. I think the problem with both sides is they're always expect an escape or 4 kills. I'd say Spirit and Nurse can have no problem getting 3/4 kills against skilled survivors because they just have the ability to pressure and win chases fast.
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"Why is this allowed to go on?"
So after Spirit and Wraith we're cancelling Nurse now?
K, just want to stay up to date with the survivor mains agenda.
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I enjoy playing against nurse- as a solo console player I rarely survive against a good one, but there's an intensity to nurse chases that other killers truly lack.
I don't feel rewarded for running a strong loop against an M1 killer. I do feel rewarded for making use of LOS breaks/last minute changes in direction against nurse.
The skill ceiling (and floor) are both high enough that a truly dangerous nurse is a very rare thing to come across.
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As soon as MMR drops one possible solution could be (and this solution is already implemented in other games like League of Legends) to match SWFs with higher rated Killers.
That's how other games handle "communication advantages" (even though there is an in game chat) - they simply try to counter communication (third party advantage) with higher skilled players (first party advantage).
That'd be an ok-ish solution for Ranked Play imo. For casual lobbies Killers just could get rewarded more BP for putting up with it. If there will ever be 2 kinds of lobbies ofc...
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Honestly part of it is the realisation that the developers will probably never rework nurse
They had an oppertunity to rework her power to be more in-line with the rest of the game, they decided not to so as far as I'm concerned it's likely staying the way it is right now permanently even if her power fundementally breaks the game in a few ways.
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