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Nemesis is in need of buffs, but the criticism he’s gotten as of now has been overblown.
Nemesis is a fairly good killer, given that the player is accurate, has the right perks, and add-ons. I’m going to try to offer the most objective possible buffs I’d give him:
1) The one thing the community seems to agree with is that it’s ridiculous that survivors get a speed boost when they initially get hit with the whip.
- I don’t see the reason why they get a sprint burst after the initial hit, but I also don’t see the point in him having to hit another time to get an injure.
- In my opinion, he should be able to injure & infect survivors at a certain tier. I think Tier2 honestly because his benefits are just too underwhelming.
Okay, now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, I’m going to speak on what I’ve undoubtedly been upset the most about. *His over reliance on mutation and detection range add-ons*.
I’m disgusted that Nemesis gets so much % of his mutation with an add-on, but the same couldn’t be said when he doesn’t bring mutation add ons.
- They’ve got to make it so they nerf the % you get from the mutation rate add on, while aligning slightly worse numbers to base kit Nemesis. He’s too slow to get T3 without a mutation rate add on, but he is too overwhelmingly rewarded from an add on that basically tripled or more his %.
I’m not saying this is a bad thing, but his over reliance on this, single handedly his best add-on, shows, and it shows in a deciding way.
Okay, so I spoke about that add on, but what about the zombie detection add on. This is, in my own practice at rank2, his second best add-on. I don’t care about speed add ons, my zombies are now becoming a bigger nuisance on even larger maps!
- This once again sounds great and all, but why don’t we make it base kit? The A.I. could use some work, but a simple fix would be integrating this add on into his kit. It would greatly benefit him.
- You could possibly add one more zombie to larger maps, but I don’t know if that would be too overwhelming for the survivors. We want a strong killer, but we also want to make the survivors experience somewhat enjoyable.
The infected status effect. I think it’s fine to add more vaccines on the map, with the condition that infection actually does something.
———————- SPOILER WARNING ———
- (SPOILER FOR THE THIRD GAME) In the Remake, Jill becomes increasingly weaker when she is infected by Nemesis. Make it so that infected survivors either need to mend to waste time or give him a mini Thanatophobia, so survivors do objectives slightly worse whilst infected.
All these things honestly overshadow the lack of incentives that Tier up presents, and I think this will make him into a definite A tier killer without drastically changing a part of his kit.
- I think that this is the right direction. I don’t think it’s because I think I have an ego, but we’ve seen these common patterns in the past. Demo & Wraith have gotten these slight add ons to their base kit that have drastically changed them.
—————- Perk Builds ———————
• Honestly, I’ve found great success with Lethal Pursuer, but I’ve even found more success with gen regression perks like Ruin, Corrupt, & POP, especially Corrupt.
Why Corrupt? Nemesis has a very weak early game, and I think that Corrupt can and has drastically changed the tides of matches for me at the beginning. A time where survivors are supposed to be taking advantage of your mutation rate, is now controlled by you.
I think many perk builds should and probably will be about covering his early game. It’s the most important time for him to stop the momentum survivors can get, and that is by using Corrupt.
- Thank you for listening up to my recommendations! If you made it through this, I think you can tell by now that I adore this new killer and the concepts used to make him.
Pushing the game issues aside, thank you BHVR for this content packed chapter. Many people can be hurtful and all I wanted to say was thank you and hopefully the issues that are undergoing maintenance are seeing quick improvement.
Comments
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It's not overblown, only PC players have access to PTB so opinions are very limited plus PTB's are always short. Now that people have all the time and there's more people you're getting more opinions. It's that Simple, he wasn't strong to begin with. He is C tier at best.
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I agree with Lemonsway. Not a lot of people play on the ptb, add on the fact that it's only a certain part of the community that can access it, you don't get a lot of feedback.
And it's always like this when a new killer is added to the ptb, he feels balanced or like he's over preforming up until he hits live servers. People don't know how to play as or against a new killer on the ptb, and given the ptbs are so short people don't have the time to learn. But as soon as they hit live build, all the flaws begin to show.
If BHVR could figure out a way to give ptb access to the rest of the community, the flaws would still only show in the live build, but there'd be much more initial feedback. Maybe allowing us to cut stray branches before they branch off too far and cause problems.
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Currently, when a survivor is infected for the first time, they get slowed down by 20%. When a survivor is hit, they move at 150%, so this is slowed down to 130% instead. So, the first hit ISN'T quite as much distance as a normal, injury hit.
The problem, though, is that the slow down is only for 1/4th of a second. I can't imagine why it is for such a short interval. You could fix the "three hit" problem by extending the Hindered slowdown to the full 2 seconds of the on-hit sprint. They still get away and you have to chase them, but it's not as punishing as a real hit.
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So it's funny, and I wanted to add to one of your points here regarding the infection mechanic. So like you said in the game, the T-virus make Jill weaker, and it more or less does the same to anyone infected. I think the devs kinda sorta were touching that, because one of the side effects of being tentacle whipped and infected is that the survivor is supposed to be hindered. Hell there's even an add-on that increases the hindered state after infection. The problem is, like you and many others have pointed out, when the initial tentacle hit for the infection hits, the survivors gain their speed boost as if they had taken damage. The reason I'm mentioning this is because the speed boost literally negates this part of his power to where it makes you think, then why the hell even bother adding that side effect?
Plus outside of the initial hindered effect at hit, there's really no negative for the survivors and barely a benefit for Nemesis to have everyone infected. Survivors will just be more susceptible to being whipped, yeah, but outside of that what does it do? Makes them cough, ok. Cool. That's it. The T-virus in the RE games is supposed to be something devastating that you do not want to contract, but in DBD it just looks like you're giving survivors a minor case of the flu. I think the infection needs something else. Like you said maybe a mini Thana effect that progresses the longer they're infected and caps out at a certain %? That way the survivors now have to determine the best time to vaccinate themselves, since the vaccines are limited. So if they're overly greedy and use them early, then late game will be hell for them. Or they can spread out the time a bit and better time/share the vaccines. That might be the route to go to be honest. Give meaning to his mechanic.
I still think his T3 also needs something...extra. The extended range is kinda meh for what is supposed to be the max level of your leveling mechanic. Honestly I don't know what to even add or change to make getting T3 seem more rewarding.
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I think some of the conflicting criticism comes from people talking about two different aspects of game play. Those that think he is too strong and oppressive are speaking about the 1v1 chase. I somewhat agree with this. I think he isn't punished enough for missing the tentacle attack. I can make him miss at the pallet of the loop and he can recover and get close enough in time to hit me while locked in animation at the window. So I guess the best way to play is pre-drop pallets and shift w, which killers say is boring to play against.
People who say he isn't strong enough are usually talking about the 4v1. If survivors play optimal (spread out and work on gens, let people on hooks ride out their hook states, don't heal when you don't have too) then he struggles to put enough pressure on the gens because of low map mobility.
But as a solo only survivor, I find it very rare that survivors play optimal. Some of this is from lack of communication. Survivors don't see what everyone is doing so it is hard to know what the correct decision is. Some of it is selfishness of not wanting to put themselves in a position to possibly be caught. And some of it is just not having enough experience to identify the situation and make the right call.
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Yeah but to be fair, that 1v1 argument is kinda dumb, as that logic applies to a majority of the killers on the roster as well, and at the 1v1 point survivors are inherently going to be at a disadvantage anyway.
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It only applies to the killers that can ignore pallet and vault resources though. If you miss with Freddy at the pallet, he isn't going to catch up to you and hit you at the window. So when you take away the ability for a survivor to avoid the killer at the resources put in the game to help them avoid the killer, it feels oppressive. It is also part of the reason the pre drop pallet and shift w meta has become so prevalent. I will waste more of the killer's time throwing the pallet and running to the next loop then staying at the loop trying to mind game him because they can basically ignore the pallet or vault because they have an ability to hit me from range when I'm locked in animation.
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That's why I said for most of the killers on the roster, they're going to be disgustingly oppressive in a 1v1 situation. Freddy, I dunno, I don't think he's a good bad example of that. If anything I'd say he can be decently oppressive in 1v1 between his blood traps (supposedly) slowing survivors down if they try to loop you, or even faking people out with the dream pallets. Like I said, overall though the survivors are supposed to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 as the game isn't really balanced around that style of gameplay. Now keep in mind that's not me saying that 1v1 = automatic win for killer. Not at all. It just means that by this point of the game, the survivor is going to have to work their ass off to overcome the odds that have just been stacked up against them.
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Totally :)
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