Pyramid Head needs a rework now

jabberdragon

With the release of Nemesis, I think we can see that Pyramid Head is just objectively worse in every way. It feels like nobody knew how to design Pyramid Head as the first video game crossover character, but they were successful with Nemesis.

Knowing what makes Nemesis feel strong and fun to play I think they should go back and redo Pyramid Head's entire kit.

Here are the problems with Pyramid Head from my point of view, considering Nemsis:

1. Rites of the Damned is a worthless ability. The Torment Trail does nothing useful. Survivors can simply ignore it in 99% of cases. Because there is a limit to the amount that can be on the map at one time you cannot use it as an effective vision tool. The Torment status effect also does nothing useful. It doesn't slow down survivors, it doesn't blind survivors, it doesn't even make Cage of Atonement good. See below. Also, Rites of the Damned leaves a trail behind you where survivors will never be during a chase. Again, it does not actually apply any pressure whatsoever because even in a loop survivors can just run over it with no repercussions.
2. Punishment of the Damned is hard to use, easily avoided, and massively slow. Not only do you basically get locked into a weird movement scheme while trying to aim it, the startup frames for it to actually go off are way too long, the trail itself is way too small, and it doesn't even inflict Torment if you land it. Someone obviously thought giving a Normal Speed killer a ranged attack was fine because Nemesis's Tentacle ability is a hundred times better despite the fact you have to hit someone three times with it to down them.
3. Cage of Atonement is actively worse than regular hooks. Because the cage appears somewhere random on the map, you basically just give the survivors a free rescue. You can't locate it in time to defend it or put down some Torment Trail around it. Did you know that if Pyramid Head remains within a certain radius of a cage it will teleport somewhere else? Of course not, because you've never made hunting down a cage a priority or managed to get to one before a survivor is freed. In addition, in order to cage someone, they have to be afflicted with Torment which is easily avoidable.
4. Torment as a passive ability sucks. The Killer Instinct a survivor gets hit with when they run over a trail is just worthless. There are a hundred more effective means of vision and other killers (like Nemesis and Legion) have Killer Instinct as a complete freebie that doesn't require survivors to walk over an incredibly obvious red trail on the ground. As discussed above, Cage of Atonement is awful, so it doesn't make Torment good on its own.
5. Final Judgment: The ability to Mori people who have been hooked twice, have Torment, or are in a Cage is not good enough to warrant every other ability on this list sucking. The end.

Here are my suggestions for possible reworks to his abilities:

1. Rites of the Damned: By holding the Power Button to activate, Pyramid Head jams his knife into the ground and drags it along, moving at a slightly decreased speed. When the Attack Button is pressed, Pyramid Head tears his knife up and sends a shockwave of torment forward in a line, inflicting damage to any Survivor in its path and inflicting Torment on them. Enemies damaged by the shockwave are Oblivious for 10 seconds after being hit. The shockwave leaves behind a Trail of Torment along its eruption area that will inflict Torment on any Survivor that steps on it. Make the ability easier to use, respond better to controls, and actually give Torment Trail a use.
2. Torment: Whenever a Survivor is inflicted with Torment they also are marked by Killer Instinct for 3 seconds by default. The only way to remove Torment is to be placed in and freed from a Cage of Atonement. Create Addons that do things such as apply Blindness, Hindered, Incapacitated, or other status effects to Survivors for the first X seconds of being afflicted with Torment and will trigger again if the Survivor gets a new Torment application while still being afflicted with Torment.
3. Cage of Atonement: Pyramid Head can send a Survivor afflicted with Torment to a Cage of Atonement instead of hooking them. A cage erupts where Pyramid Head is standing and imprisons the Survivor. Pyramid Head can always see the location of caged Survivors. Cages also emit an aura of pain around them, inflicting any Survivor that comes within 2 meters with Torment while Pyramid Head is within 10 meters of the cage. Make cages actually good instead of being worse than the default. Also, make them actually good at being objective locations for Pyramid Head to be around. Facecamping is not an argument against cages being objectives to patrol.
4. Final Judgment: Any Survivor that has been sent to a Cage of Attonement twice and is afflicted with Torment can be executed by Pyramid Head. Because a "free" Mori with all these hoops to jump through isn't so good that all the other abilities have to suck.

Beelzeboop

PoTD inflicting Torment is absolutely something he needs. It sounds like you want to largely remove his Torment trails, though, which is not a good idea by any means. The extra information is invaluable, and you can abuse survivors' immense aversion to the stuff if you're clever.

PoTD just needs to come out slightly faster. That's all it really needs. 10 seconds of Oblivious is... cool, but a bit much.

It would be cool if Pyramid Head had full control over Torment, and not getting it removed for uncaging another survivor would be great for him.

The reason the Cage of Atonement is the way it is is because if it just worked the way you describe, he would be a camping and tunneling machine. There would be little reason to do anything else. Using the cage is a choice, giving you something other than "slug or hook." Making it so that survivors couldn't see the caged survivor's aura either would be cool, though.

Final Judgement really, really doesn't need any changes. The survivor is dead anyway. End of story.

musstang62

As someone that pretty much mains PH, I like most of your suggestions but I would say the opposite - PH is objectively better than Nemmy on virtually every level. Honestly, I'd argue that PH is far better designed than Nemmy in his current state. To your points:

1.) I agree that rites of the damned isn't the most useful thing, but it does have uses. Some survivors will not run a loop properly just to avoid running into a trail, which gives you a free hit. Other survivors will ignore it and run through (usually the better idea for them), which gets them tormented. I like to leave survivors tormented until they're either death hook or when DS might be a factor. Outside of loops - yes, it is (mostly) useless. At loops, it has a purpose

2.) I agree that it should inflict torment, but it's still arguably the strongest ranged attack in the game if used properly. Not the easiest thing to use right off the bat though. You need to figure out the timing and prepare it much earlier. The only advantages Nemmy's attack has is that it's a little quicker to use and you can move more freely while aiming. Otherwise, PH's punishment is better in every way imaginable

3.) Caging should only be used to circumvent DS, send a survivor across the map if you know all others are close by, or to quickly deal with the downed survivor to continue a chase with another nearby survivor. For those purposes, it's much much better than hooking. Outside of those scenarios - yes, you are better off hooking. But having the option to choose is great

4./5.) Torment allowing caging or insta-mories is more than enough. I can't think of another status effect that does more for a killer

To your suggestions:

1.) I agree that inflicting torment with a punishment hit would be a great change. I guess I personally find oblivious to be the most useless status effect before blindness, so I don't see much of a downside or benefit to it being added there

2.) PH's add-ons do suck, so all those changes would be great

3.) This one feels a bit too strong to me because it would encourage and reward cage camping. I can't imagine BHVR will ever revert the change to prevent PH from seeing cages

4.) Wouldn't that be a nerf? I don't see an issue with the current requirement of death hook + torment for the final judgment, but I think I'm misinterpreting what you wrote there

Firellius

In regards to your suggestions...

1. I think it should be either Torment -or- oblivious, not both. And I'd prefer to see it apply Torment. It'd give him more consistent access to it and makes it more rewarding to land an admittedly quite difficult to land skillshot.
2. I like the idea of torment getting different effects based on add-ons, but the problem is that these kinds of gameplay changes can make add-ons swing his power level too much. Imagine it gave Hindered, for example: PH without it would be balanced, but with it would be broken powerful in loops. At the very least, though, I think the 'gain undetectable while standing in the trail' add-on should become 'Survivors that are afflicted with Torment become oblivious for X seconds', to give it much, MUCH wider application.
3. I, uh... I'm not going to mince words here: This is one of the worst suggestions I have ever seen. This is hard, VERY hard camping incentive on top of the ability to turn any dead end area into a basement, AND the fact that it disables anti-camp perks. This would turn PH from a very fun to fight killer to the absolute worst thing to face, and it wouldn't even help him perform better. Absolutely not, cages are fine as they are.
4. I think this suggestion actually nerfs it from where it is right now. Any death hook survivor that is afflicted with Torment can currently be executed by Pyramid Head, regardless of whether they were caged or not.

Adjatha

I agree with most of everything you said, but let me say again, and again, and again:

Pyramid Head has the worst Addons of any killer in the game. He has THREE useful ones: the three that increase the range of his shockwave. Every other addon either adds such a microscopic amount to his torment trails that it is totally unnoticable, or tries (and fails) to make one of the tallest, noisiest killers in the game into a stealth guy. They are atrocious and they never received a rework or a modification, despite three rounds of nerfs on him in the first month or two of his release.

Change. Pyramid Head's. Addons.

DbD_Enjoyer

Looks like some people already fell for this one, oh boy...

Woodywool

Since RE chapter, we have zombies for the Nemesis that controlled by AI.

It would be great if we have something like zombies but from SH games (for example, mannequins from SH2 or Nurses from SH1) and these creatures ONLY attack tormented survivors. Maybe, they'll have same speed as Nemesis's zombies but amount of them could be more.

Firellius

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284136#Comment_2284136

Litter the map with dozens of mannequins, but only a few are actually alive. They jump into action when the tormented survivor gets really close, still giving them some time to react, but keeping them on their toes.

NoOneKnowsNova

Since when was Nemesis stronger than PH? If anything he's a weaker version.