In Defence of NOED
Hello, I play this game since last August and have slightly more than 900 hours in dbd. I used Hex: No One Escapes Death only 1 time when I was still learning killer and it was cleansed 20 seconds of its life. I never used it since then at first because I thought it was too much risk for my liking, then I found it too unfun to play against. I also play as both roles.
So you might ask - Why would you ever defend such unfun perk?
My answer to that is - People misunderstand it's purpose.
NOED in my opinion shouldn't be seen as a noob perk that rewards bad players, but as something completely different.
NOED is a middle finger perk from the to survivors who think that they won. That's all it is.
And I want you to remember how satisfying it is for to escape a killer with NOED.
This message is mostly to people who take this game too seriously, I understand wanting to win, but don't forget that this is a casual game.
And don't think that I didn't rage at killers that used NOED, I just grew up I think.
Good Luck and Have Fun while playing this game.
Comments
-
Un popular opinion NOED doesn't win games. Also yeah. Noed used in the right hands can be devastating.
8 -
And I agree with that wholeheartedly
I'm just trying to make people hate it a little less.
2 -
The problem with the view of most people who complain about NoED is that they think it 'rewards failure'. This could not be more wrong.
See, the Killer did not fail just because 5 gens popped; the Exit Gates still need to be opened, and the Survivors still need to actually leave the match. At any point between those two things; the Killer can still hit and hook and kill people.
But, the way I see it, most of those who dislike NoED know this. They just don't want to accept it. So they invent some arbitrary event; the Exit Gates being powered, and then claim it's somehow a fail state for Killers.
In this way, they have just created an argument against NoED; that it 'rewards failure'. They're wrong, but they will stick to it, because it's the only method to attack NoED that they have.
Because, and let's face it, their other argument of 'It has no counter' is an utter lie, given the number of anti-totem perks and items that exist.
So they tried to invent another flaw with the perk; the 'rewards failure' tripe. It's also a lie, but they keep trying.
17 -
I think killers tend to see it this way because we see all the times it does absolutely nothing 😂
0 -
Honestly I was the same on my 400-500 hours. I only started thinking about the entitlement of survivors in my last 50 hours I spent on this game.
2 -
People say it’s a crutch (which it is) to allow the killer momentum he couldn’t get in the game.
But 90% of the time, survivor crutch perks is the only reason they made it to the endgame alive…so, NOEDs fine with me as I’m sure survivors (including myself) wont stop using crutches.
DoDaDamnBoneZ
6 -
Low key can't wait for buffed no way out for devastating end game builds where NOED actually makes sense instead you something you stick on as a back up plan when your plan fails. Something like NOED/Blood Warden/No Way Out/Free Slot. I think it could be fairly relaxing as killer that instead of putting yourself on a timer and worrying about "gen rush" (also known as survivors doing their objective please stop calling it gen rush it's hilariously stupid) you can just build up your NWO and finish them in the end game.
As for NOED itself I feel like survivors only hate it because it means they can't BM and actually have to get tf out and they hate the feeling of having to actually respect the killer. I don't think NOED is amazing it generally forces teams into sacrificing a teammate and just leaving or putting themselves in great danger and I think the former is generally the smarter option but the latter can lead to some great moments if you can pull it off. I know people say they don't complain about devour when it does the same thing because the killer has to "earn" it but can we stop pretending getting 3 hooks is all that hard? If you don't mind devour you really shouldn't mind NOED.
On the topic of the unearned downs argument half of y'all run dead hard which gives you a free health state for getting hit so please stop pretending you're trying to present a serious argument and arn't just putting forth some hypocritical salt.
2 -
NOED would be fine if survivors were actually notified that they are "exposed" when the perk activates.
The perk in its current form is outdated and is not consistent with the way that status effects are supposed to work. The same goes for Devour Hope.
8 -
You can use Remember Me in that free slot ;)
1 -
I mean, it's a middle finger of a perk. You don't warn anyone that you're going to flip someone off, do you?
0 -
So just disregard fundamental gameplay mechanics in favour of promoting toxicity? Your argument is beginning to disintegrate.
Another problem with NOED is the wild disparity in totems placements between maps.
Spawned into Autohaven? No problem, there's a TL wall there, a bus there, probably on in the main building, maybe one in the shack etc.
Spawned into Lery's, Hawkins or Midwich? Wait while I check every nook and cranny in every single room...
I can't imagine how hard they will be to find in RPD.
"Do bones" is an invalid argument.
4 -
And yet, it does. Exit gates need to be opened, sure. But survivors still need to be chased, and you get bonus movement speed AS WELL AS instadowns, cutting your chases in half of the half of the half of the time you would need to down them, because you didn't manage to do so during the match. Ergo, therefore, vis a vis, it DOES reward failure.
4 -
It sure as hell doesn't reward success.
8 -
When did I promote toxicity?
Most of toxicity about NOED comes from survivors, I understand how inconvenient it it is to look for totems. Bring perks to help then. I know that you don't want to change your perks for something "stupid" like totems, but that's why small game and counterforce exist.
1 -
Oh right I knew there was one other dumb argument I forgot in regards to NOED the "rewards failure" argument which comes from the faulty notion that killer's job is to protect gens and if all the gens are done the game should already be considered over and the killer should just let people open the doors and leave because idk I'm sure survivors wrote it down in their rulebook somewhere.
Killers should try to prevent gens from being done but not because it's their objective but because it helps them in what their actual objective is which is and I know this may be shocking to some people, killing. But if all the gens do get done the game isn't over it just goes to the next section which is powering gates and if the killer wants to focus their build on that section of the game I'm really quite confused why that's considered so taboo. The killer has not failed until the survivors have escaped and not before then.
1 -
So? Just because it does not reward success does not mean it has to reward failure. This is not an either/or result.
NoED is just a tool to help a Killer win. Maybe it salvages a game going south, or maybe it was a Killer planning ahead because they like being a threat after 5 gens pop; Since the Killer has not failed until everyone escapes, it's really up to how a Killer uses it that defines it.
But none of those definitions are 'rewards failure', since the Killer's only fail state is 'people escaped'.
The 'rewards failure because 5 gens' BS is like a Killer saying 'Ok! Survivors fail if I sacrifice 2 of them! Stop doing gens; you already failed!' 🤦♂️
3 -
Why would you want a middle finger perk in the game at all? I don't want any perks on the survivor side to exist just as a middle finger to the killer because that's unfair and stupid. You are only making more of a case to get NOED significantly reworked.
2 -
'I don't want any perks on the survivor side to exist just as a middle finger to the killer'
Dead Hard and Adrenalin come to mind right away...
2 -
Dead Hard doesn't grant you a free win lmao if there are no more resources around you it won't work and half the time it doesn't even work because of the servers. You have to actually finish all of the gens for Adrenaline to even work, it rewards you for getting that far into the game. NOED rewards a killer for LOSING all of the gens, if your survivor team never makes it to the end game Adrenaline will never work. Even the worst killer in the world will get value out of NOED because it requires you to lose all of the gens for it to work.
1 -
You said 'Middle finger perk'. Those perks I named are middle fingers to the Killer.
Also; losing all the gens is just a step in the game. The Killer has not lost until the Survivors actually cross the exit line. Why is this so hard for Survivors to understand?
Losing all 5 gens does not mean the Killer has lost, or deserves to lose the rest of the match! This is an arbitrary event Survivors claim to pretend NoED is flawed!
I will keep saying it every time someone brings up that bunk about 'Losing all 5 gens'. Who cares if 5 gens pop? The game is not over. Survivors don't win just because all 5 gens pop. Stop pretending 5 gens popping has any meaning.
It. Means. Nothing.
3 -
Losing all the gens is the final step until the survivors escape through the exit gates. Of course the killer has not lost yet but they are in a losing position. In an F1 race you don't give a speed boost to the racer in last place because they deserve to be in last place, they're losing. NOED is the equivalent of a Mario Kart item that you get in last place to boost you up to 3rd or 4th. It doesn't belong in a competitive game and if you've lost all the gens you should have to come back with your own skill, not a single perk that can legitimately grant you a win for free.
2 -
Except the perk can be turned off before it every turns on. And this game is not 'competitive', not by a long shot, rofl.
NoED is fine. Survivors have more come from behind perks than they can equip, but Killers have ONE come from behind perk and suddenly Survivors are up in arms. Almost like they feel entitled to win.
2 -
"It doesn't belong in a competitive game"
Good thing DBD isn't competitive, according to the devs.
;)
1 -
It doesn't have reasonable counterplay. Of course you CAN disable it but it's extremely unreasonable to have to cleanse 5 dull totems just to disable 1 hex perk. They literally nerfed Undying because it was unreasonable to have to cleanse up to 4 totems to disable 1 hex perk. NOED's power only functions off of the survivor's abilities to do totems, it has nothing to do with the skill of the killer. They also nerfed Ruin a long time ago because it was based solely off of the survivor's abilities to hit great skill checks, a killer's skill had nothing to do with it. NOED falls under the same philosophy as both of those original perks because it...
A. relies on the skill of the survivors to cleanse totems, not the killer
B. It is unreasonable to have to cleanse 5 totems for 1 hex perk, like old Undying.
No survivor is ever entitled to win, they just want perks that require skill and reasonable counterplay. NOED is neither of those and I don't even want NOED to fundamentally change as a perk, it just needs to have better counterplay. We just want a fair game.
3 -
It's unreasonable for 4 people to cleanse 1 totem each, then one person to cleanse a second? Bunk.
That's nothing more than an excuse that says 'I don't want to cleanse totems, so nerf the one perk that stops me from slamming gens'.
5 -
People will hate it because it IS a crutch perk. Even if you use it very well does Endgame Tombstone Myers sound fun? No right?
2 -
That argument is even more bunk because its either cleanse 5 OR just 1 totem during the endgame.
2 -
Like all hex perks, it's all or nothing, and that's the whole problem. It allows it to be ridiculous powerful, yet still feels 'weak' to use for most killers, because you only actually get to use it 10% of the time.
They really need to rework all hex perks. Instead of tying them to a single hex totem, they just need to be perks that scale with the number of active totems on the map.
For example, NOED could take a snapshot of all uncleansed totems at the moment the last gen is repaired. It then gains that many tokens, each token = one instant down. This way survivors can cleanse several totems and still weaken NOED without getting that final totem, while killers can still get some use out of NOED instead of it vanishing completely the moment someone cleanses that one hex totem. It would also mean survivors need to cleanse totems before end game, as once that last gen is repaired, it's too late to change it.
2 -
I may be unpopular playing only as a survivor: instead of gen-rush, look for totems too! get blood points and defeat noed!
2 -
NOED exists to punish Survivors who didnt do totems during the trial.
its a great Perk concept, but it lacks in its execution.
essentially, current NOED punishes teams who did 4 totems and teams who did 0 totems the exact same. in addition to that, a team that did 0 totems can still have the NOED totem spawn right next to their last repaired gen, meaning they can just kill it and immediately negate the whole point of the Perk.
i want the Perk reworked into something that still punishes Survivors for not doing dull totems, but with the strength of its effect differing based on the amount of dull totems left when it triggers.
1 -
Look, I have played so long, and been on these forums so long, that I have had this noed discussion ad nauseum.
The simple truth is, if you play this in every build, every game, IMO, then you concede that more often then not, Survivors are going to finish the gens on you.
Or else, why not play other perks to help you ensure that they don't power the gens?
Look, play what you want, but like DH for survivor, you didn't outplay, you outperked.
7 -
Heaven forbid someone play for the back half of the match, right?
I mean, Survivors get pissed off if a Killer 'tryhards' before a gen pops, too.
So what are Killers supposed to do? Not kill until a gen pops, but make sure not to use NoED fir all 5 popping, because Survivors have declared the match is over by then!
So Killers have a 4-Gen window to kill without being 'sweats' or using a 'crutch perk'; Don't kill before Gen #1 (tryharding), but also don't kill after gen #5 (Survivors have deemed 5 gens a 'win')! 🤦♂️
3 -
1 way to counter DH reliably. Wait it out. You can just assume most survivors use it and if you wait it out or pressure them into an area with no resources you'll never have to worry about it.
1 -
killers can play good and get downs and hooks and keep the gens gate keeped, but can still have the gens popped.
noed helps at the endgame, but doesn't reward anything. you get an easier down, many perks do.
i view the perk has punishing survivors for not pushing to escape and rather try and be altruistic.
2 -
That was my point. DH can be unreasonable to deal with sometimes in the same way as NOED is.
2 -
I hate NoED with a passion, not going to sugar coat it, but it's not because it rewards failure — I don't think it does to begin with.
I just hate perks that take advantage of solo queue because let's face it — solo queue is a complete mess, and more often than not, leading to some very unfun experiences. Then we introduce perks with the sole purpose of destroying solo queue when it's already pretty miserable for the most part.
Granted we have perks to help against it, but we're running perks in the off chance the killer has NoED. Upon that, there's no communication, meaning multiple survivors might be running perks against it when it's unnecessary to do so or no one runs support perks. SWF don't even need perks against NoED, they can use whatever they want and do creative builds while solo queue, for the most part, have to use Kindred, [Insert Anti-Totem Perk], Decisive Strike, and Unbreakable.
I don't want NoED nerfed, I just want it to be more solo queue friendly. Could careless on how strong NoED is, just make it less oppressive for solo queue.
2 -
No, that is why I try to choose my words carefully.
I really need to stop interjecting in these noed discussions. First play whatever you want, and ######### someone else's opinion. But, let's not act like killing before the gens are done isn't the old school Killer's goal.
It seems newer Killers see noed differently. I personally don't judge anyone's perk or tactics. But, after 4 years in the game, I prefer perks that will let me 4k before I need No ones even dead yet.
My point is, if you play it every game, every build, every killer, well you are a bit boosted .
6 -
I was not trying to put words in your mouth, directly, apologies.
I was simply pointing out the myriad of excuses against NoED, and other rules Survivors have invented, and putting them together to show just how much Survivors are trying to tie Killer's hands. Something that may not be seen when folks view each suggestion piecemeal.
0 -
I love these NOED arguments because at the end of the day, unless adrenaline is nerfed, I see NOED as the counter to adrenaline. So NOED is fine as long as Adrenaline remains in its current state. Why? Because they both activate at endgame.
0 -
Fair enough. But trust I have my killer time logged. And I understand how asinine some Survivors can be in defining killer tactics. I am just not a fan of sacrificing a perk slot for an end game scenario, i am not willing to concede will even happen.
5 -
If only there were perks/items that let you find totems.
0 -
I'd rather they addressed the many issues with the perk than suggest other perks as plasterfixes for bad design.
0 -
The only issue is survivors unwillingness to do anything but gens. If survivors cleansed totems regularly then you'd see noed much less. Also you dont even need perks to take care of noed.
0 -
NOED is supposed to serve as the universal gen slowdown perk. The thread of NOED existing should encourage survivors to lay off those gens for a minute and go some bones. The problem is, instead of actually doing that, they feel they should just be able to keep slamming the gens as fast as possible with no punishment. The point of NOED is to punish gen rushing, and they don't like it.
4 -
That's how hex perks work, all or nothing. That is their literal design. The problem is, there are only like 3 good ones, and the rest are terrible. Which isn't much to say on the idea of a hex in general, just that the devs have a warped sense of things that are strong. For example, Almo thinks that huntress lullaby is actually stronger than ruin.
0 -
any argument against basically says "it rewards the killer for playing bad, but that doesn't hold any ground.
and on the other side "it doesn't, it helps out end game just incase." which is more true.
here's a scenario.
there was plague, they had noed. i didn;t risk the escape to go play rescue, i escaped.
and again with t3 myers, i didn't risk being killed to save survivors, i escaped. (this games more fuzzy, but im pretty sure)
same with a noed trapper, i didn't risk dying i went to the door, i only died that game because his Tr was non existent and he had no perks to hide it. well...i did stop just incase another survivor got downed...so that played a part...
so guess what push for escape and your less likely to die because of being one shot at the end. or find the totem i guess. which i was on swamp looking for devour, never found it.
and these people definitions of killers being bad is just "all the gens got done so obviously"
0 -
Counterforce, Inner Strength, Quick and Quiet and either Head On or Small Game and you have a build that kills every totem in the game in about a minute and a half to 2 minute timeframe.
Counterforce is one of my favorite perks right now and it gets stronger the more you cleanse totems. I have not been hit with No One Escapes Death ONCE in two weeks or whenever this chapter dropped. Literally not once.
0 -
As someone who plays both and mostly killer NOED is 100% a failsafe thats its intended purpose. NOED definitely needs a rework just like adrenaline needs a nerf. Just because its a 'middle finger' to survivors doing their only objective doesn't mean it belongs in the game.
- "NOED in my opinion shouldn't be seen as a noob perk that rewards bad players, but as something completely different." No it DOES reward bad players but it can also reward good players. No matter what for NOED to activate you NEED to have failed your secondary objective which is to protect gens. You NEED to be in a losing position in order for it to even proxy and yes you can say "Well its a comeback perk." the problem is is it isn't a comeback that's skillful or that requires planning its just a perk that activates and wins you a chase as long as you find one survivor and are a semi competent killer.
- "NOED is a middle finger perk from the to survivors who think that they won. That's all it is." In this same light why was old DS nerfed? I mean after all It was just a middle finger to killers who thought they've won. Using this train of thinking is horrible especially when it comes to balancing discussions. Pallet vacuums were just middle fingers to killers who think that they could've gotten a hit, Insta-blinds were just a middle finger to killers who thought they could pick up a survivor, No exhaustion Sprint Burst and balanced was just a middle finger to killers who thought they'd be able to catch up to a survivor.
- "And I want you to remember how satisfying it is for to escape a killer with NOED." Most of the time its very frustrating as if you KNOW the killer has it its most likely he has someone on hook and you were forced to abandon them because you didn't have time.
2 -
In that same light the counter for DS is don't tunnel or slug for 60 seconds
1 -
The whole problem with NOED is the Survivor mindset(particularly with the Sweat Squads)in which the match is viewed as '5 GENS IN 1 MIN RUSH RUSH GOGOGOGO AAAANNNND WE WIN!!!!11!!!!" They feel that when they get 5 gens done, they have won the match and are now entitled to escape(all 4 of them)and you, the loser Killer, should acquiesce; in fact, you should open the gate and escort them out as your betters.
Easiest Killer perk to never ever see in the game. 5 totems, 1 minute and change, total. If you see it, you deserve it. No sympathy.
0
