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Problems with unhooking and trap-setting speeds

zarr
zarr Member Posts: 1,036
edited July 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

The unhooking and trap-setting interactions (Trapper, Hag) both suffer from the issue that only 1/3rd of the respective animation is actually affected by action speed modifiers.

If you look at the interactions, you will notice that the progress bar does not start filling until some time after the animation has begun playing, and/or is fully filled some time before the animation has played out.

For unhooks, only the first 3rd of the animation is affected; for trap-setting interactions, the affected 3rd is sandwiched in between the bending-down and standing-back-up animations.

What this means is that for both of these interactions that roughly last 3 seconds total, only a 1-second section is sped up by perks and add-ons. So even if you speed them up by 100%, you merely go from 3 to 2.5 seconds, rather than 1.5 seconds. The only perks that non-negligibly affect unhooking speeds are Desperate Measures, Leader and No One Left Behind, all of which are low-tier perks. And for Trapper and Hag, the setting speed add-ons are likewise underwhelming.

You can see that the action speed has a very diminished effect on the interaction duration in this example:

Here, every single possible thing capable of increasing unhooking speed is in play, effectively doubling the unhooking speed. Yet the unhooking interaction still takes more than two seconds.

My suggestion then obviously is to make the entire 3-second animation of these interactions be affected by action speed modifiers, such that a 100% increase in speed would halve the time to perform them.

Comments

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968

    The unhooking speed 'issue' is to enforce a window of time that the killer can punish greedy unhooks by grabbing the unhooker. This is why things that affect unhooking only affect this window of time, to reduce the 'risk' of unhooking safely for the unhooker. Thereby more effectively forcing a hook trade instead of a killer getting the grab/down for nothing gained.

    The trap setting speed is built into those killers time budget for their power, similarly to how deathslinger has to reload, or huntress' wind down animation after a thrown hatchet. If you start to tinker with the time efficiency of a killer's power it'll make them more oppressive. That second sentence is moreso for Hag than Trapper though, to be frank.

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 1,036
    edited July 2021


    Again, the perks that non-negligibly affect unhooking speeds are painfully lackluster, buffing them in this way (to reduce the risk of getting grabbed by facecampers and for some other plays) is really not concerning.

    Likewise, Hag and Trapper have infinitely better add-ons than the setting speed ones, making the setting interaction take a second or so less is not oppressive from a time budget perspective. Yet it would allow them to actually effectively go for mid-chase trap sets without losing a lot of distance. It would actually make the setting speed add-ons worthwhile, whereas currently there's just no reason to ever use them over the actually good add-ons of these killers.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968

    All perks that affect anything are pretty lackluster in this game. You could make an argument for Ruin, but that could bust in 14 seconds and do nothing so, pretty terrible on average. I would honestly prefer that they buffed other perks up into the meta rather than trying to nerf the meta down into trash.

    This is an idealistic thought, but the devs have said that they balance a killer's power with the addons as apart of the power budget. So you can't say "oh well it won't have much effect because X addons are better/more useful" because they keep all the addons in scope. And again, what I said was more about hag than trapper, I think trapper is in a garbage place compared to other killers with how ancient, outdated, and archaically contrived his power is now.

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 1,036

    I don't really understand the first part here. Desperate Measures, Leader and No One Left Behind are perks so lackluster they are in the lowest of tiers (well, Leader and NOLB anyway). There are certainly very many lackluster perks in this game, but there are also some very strong perks, so clearly there is room for improvement. Maybe you misunderstood me, what I'm suggesting here would buff those aforementioned perks (and it would still not make them very strong either, far from, though Desperate Measures would become interesting).

    And for the add-on power budget thing, well, killers only have 2 add-on slots, so the setting speed add-ons would on their own have to do enough to be worthwhile when used alongside another type of add-on, yet in their current state, even when you stack the best setting speed add-ons it only makes a negligible difference. When stacked, they increase setting speed by 90% (Trapper) and 65% (Hag), which amounts to a setting time decrease of 700 milliseconds in Trapper's case, and 400ms in Hag's. Even if you were to speed them up by a percentage approaching infinity, you would still only shave 1-1.5 seconds off of the total animation durations, due to it only affecting a portion of them. I think Trapper would totally be fine with a setting time of 1.3 seconds with 2 setting speed add-ons equipped, and Hag likewise with one of 1.2s with her setting speed add-ons stacked. That's what they would be if those add-ons affected the entire animation instead, and it would create a new chase dynamic where survivors are not certain to comfortably make distance while the killer sets a trap.

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 1,036
    edited July 2021

    On a separate note, there is one issue that I first assumed you were maybe alluding to in your original post as well: For as long as an interaction lasts, a survivor can get grabbed off of said interaction by the killer. So if BHVR were to extend the unhooking progress bar to last for the entire unhooking animation such that it can be sped up in its entirety as well, that would mean that survivors can then be interrupted and grabbed off of the unhooking animation later into the process than they can now. That said, there are multiple solutions for this issue: First of all, it should be possible to make actions be affected by the action speed modifier without actually giving them a progress bar. Vault actions for instance are affected by certain action speed modifiers, and they of course do not have progress bars. So they could simply make action speed apply to the portion of the unhooking animation that is currently not affected, albeit without changing the progress bar. Then it could also be possible to simply make grabs not work for the part of the unhooking progress where they currently don't work either, despite the progress bar then including that part. And finally, I for one would actually welcome a change where hook grabs are removed from the game entirely. They encourage hard-camping and lead to awkward, stupid dancing around the hook with the killer refusing to hit a survivor trying to grab them instead, and the survivor refusing to commit to the unhook fearing to get grabbed. It's all the less desirable a mechanic due to how vulnerable it is to latency and therefore randomness and abuse. So the third solution is to simply remove the killer's ability to grab survivors during unhooking interactions, obviously compensating for that with other buffs.

    But that's a discussion for an entirely different topic, this post is just meant to address this issue that may arise from my suggestion to make the entire unhooking process be affected by action speed modifiers.