Gen Speeds
Goddamn it, could we do something about this? Get in one chase and a gen is done, turn around and another gen is done, down someone and yet another gen is done.
This is absolutely asinine. The winning strategy for killers is slug and tunnel and that's if they can catch someone holding W.
Too. Much. Fun.
Comments
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As killer, I wouldn't mind if gens moved a little less quickly than they currently do when more than one survivor is working on them.
As solo queue, I wouldn't mind if gens didn't take forever while working on one by myself.
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I use ruin but my hex for it always seems to spawn in obvious places......like right next to a gen.
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The problem is finding a solution that doesn't crack the game in half for a significant part of the playerbase.
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Yeah, the only games I experience where gens do not fly is when I'm playing Blight with the most meta build ever... Corrupt, Ruin, Tinkerer, Pop. Unfortunately most killers just aren't good enough to keep up the pressure against good survivor teams. I don't like the idea of changing gen speeds though, I would just like some incentive for survivors to not hold M1 on a gen if they aren't in chase, which makes every game 5 minutes long instead of 10.
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Hex spawns are absolute ######### and is why I never run them
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Gen speed is too fast for killer to get 8 hooks in. Sure some super good killers can do it, but what about us mediocre players? I love playing as killer but im frustrated seeing gens pop left and right less than in 2 minutes. I try to be fair not tunnel or proxy camp but the game is kinda forcing us killers to tunnel. When i'm a survivor i do understand the killers who tunnel even if it is annoying. Without it killing everyone or even 2 people sometimes is impossible. What do we get end of the game... toxic t-bagging and flashlighting and standing at the gates until the last second, worse cases insults in the last chat box ( which i keep closed as a killer) .
Why do you guys think a lot of us killers use NOED? Because simply gen speed is too fast especially if survivors are using perks to make it faster +tool boxes and group genning.
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What slowdown perks are ya running??
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There needs to be a second objective imo. Like needing a part to finish the last 10% of a gen or having to do something else because I don't think making gens long is the right awnser I hate doing gens when I play survivor
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Id say the bigger issue is map design, most maps are too big to pressure properly for the majority of the killer cast so if the survivors spawn all split up or split up themselves you are almost garunteed to lose at least a gen or 2 before you hook your first or second survivor.
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Just use perks
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I've had ruin for awhile no and only 3 killers have it. Not everyone has meta perks on all the killers just saying
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I mean there's plenty of gen perks that killers can use not just ruin
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This is why they should have never got rid of the original Ruin. And undying shouldn’t have been nerfed either. And there should be a perk to add more totems to the map like survivors have the coins to add more chests to the map. But fear not OP, Pinhead is bringing a gen slow down perk with him and It seems decent.
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Why not just run discordance with a few other gen affecting perks you make people less likely to work on gens together and if they do you can see them working on a gen together
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Original Ruin was a terrible designed Perk. It was free Slowdown without any effort on the Killer Side. This should not exist.
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I got pop on a few killers anything else I don't believe I've unlocked yet. So what do I do now?
Ps i know the awnser is grind
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It's a direct consequence of tunnelling and camping. Gens have to go that fast or else killers would be practically guaranteed a win with dickish moves.
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Or gens go so fast the the killer has to tunnel to keep up with gen speed.
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Yes the answer is grind (kind of because grind is pain) so I really don't know give yourself time and effort you'll get there eventually
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Thats kind of my point its not always as simple as just use perk A or B. I didn't even see ruin on my p1 spirit tell lol 35-40
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One's a choice, the other is not. If gens go slower, what'd prevent killers from camping and tunnelling even more, since they're now even more effective?
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I never said camping that is a dumb tactic imo. Tunneling happens when gens go by so fast the killer has to remove a player to create pressure
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Yea it sucks when that happens but Spawns have something to do with it as well
Slowing gens speeds won't make the problem go away I think that there are in a good spot (not too long and not too short)
While Ruin is good just chase survivors off of the gen and watch it regress at twice the normal speed... kicking a gen takes too long and regression being what it is doesn't do much of anything (which is why Pop is really good cause of instant regression)
If the devs increase the base regression that in of itself will help
And perks like Brutal Strength and Overcharge aren't being used for a reason or another (Overcharge doesn't make anyone scared due to it still being on the screen even when the survivor isn't on the gen and Brutal only speeds up the animation by whatever % and not making it one kick or hit)... while Prove Thyself and Resilience (and not being on a gen that's far away from the killer) and toolboxes are worth the investment
And while both sides have perks to either make it easier or harder to do gens the base progression VS. regression will continue to be a problem
Then we have the "Meta" which for me is Sloppy/Corrupt/BBQ/Whispers on most killers and Kindred/Spine Chill on survivor but it's up to the player what they deem good (it comes down to playstyle not what's the strongest)
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Yeah, but camping would also be affected, since its only counter is genrushing and leaving ASAP.
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I haven't gotten bbq on plague after 110 levels lol so it's same here
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Ruin is a joke.. everytime i use it survivors find it before it can really do anything. Pop doesnt really help all that much eather + kicking all the gens takes time away from the chase. Just now i had a game where survivors did gens in few minutes sadly i had no noed so i knew at that point my game was over. I had discordance so i saw them doing gens together even if i chased them away from 1 they just started another while i was chasing someone or hooking someone.
Killers who have no speed cant pressure the big maps well. Should we all just play spirit and nurse?
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It's funny how often Ruin gets cleansed within 20-30 seconds of the match starting but other Hex perks are left alone
So to get use out of Ruin killers have brought Undying (just to see it get nerfed)
To get the most out of Ruin is a gamble (hoping it stays in game long enough- and finding survivors on gens)
Also Pop does takes too much time... as does Oppression, Surveillance (to get full use)
If base regression was raised even a little bit that would help and making Brutal 50% (one kick) that would be even better
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Old ruin was way worse than people think and was an active hinders to the game. It completely destroyed new survivors while being terrible against good ones
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Honestly? With how the game is balanced right know?
Just play without gen slowdown perks. You´ll get 3 or 4 hooks by the time the gates are powered and might end up with 0 to 1 kills.
Things might change once the skill based matchmaking goes live. But until then you either conform yourself with getting almost no hooks or switch to survivor.
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Do you have any idea how many games I have where my teammates literally won't even touch a gen? How many times I have to do the last two or three gens entirely alone? There's never any point in my running Prove Thyself, no one else does gens. I have had multiple games recently where I find my teammates waiting at the gate with one gen to go.
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Gen repair speeds themselves aren't a problem, but it is more a problem of normalization and varying map strength.
Like, on your average map, gen speed is totally fine, the killer has enough power to defend their gens on those maps, if you accept your not going to defend them all and plan ahead for what 4-5 gens you are really going to dig in to defend (trying to start with a tri-gen is a bad idea on most maps).
The issue is when the maps are too big for you to effectively start a chase early, or the map just has bad gen spreads, or the map has an extremely dense safe zone. Old Ormond was a good example of this with its comical pallet density, as is current Midwitch for any killer without vertical mobility.
The real trick is to understand chase breakpoints and to take them when you think you have gotten the most value from that chase in the least amount of time. For example, if a survivor throws an extremely strong pallet near your nest, it is probably enough value to just break that and go back to check the gens you care about, because that will make the next chase that starts in that area SIGNIFICANTLY harder for the survivors. While it never feels good to break off a chase without a down, it is often the correct choice because your chase set up future downs IF you ensure specific generators don't then pop rendering that specific deadzone irrelevant.
This is why a lot of high level killers don't use ruin but instead use pop (or oppression+Surveilance). Ruin is really strong if you are a high mobility killer and it doesn't get cleansed, but in reality you don't care about the time investment of pop that much compared to having control over which specific gens don't get completed, and while ruin is 'global' you often don't care about the entire map but just specific halves of it (ex: On Grim Pantry you are USUALLY defending Shack Side and whatever goes down near main building sorta doesn't matter, so the fact ruin 'helps' those gens if you show up there isn't as relevant as noticing shack gen is 50% and just nuking that progress). Oppression has the side benefit of giving you information for your next chase specifically in the context of your planned defensive area.
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First don't increase gen speed instead add a mini objective. You can then bring them down to an ok level
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Here's the thing if onside start completing objects quickly then the other side need to do the same.
Camping is dumb tactic the only survivors can make work by feeding into it
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This really bugs me people say just run ruin undying. I have to take up 2 perk slots just to slow down the game
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New Ruin makes you never want to get off gens though
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I play both sides and I feel that they are a bit fast. They feel faster than they did when I first started playing years ago. It's also more common to complete them unchallenged now. Back in the day, a killer would almost always show up when you were on one I felt.
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I disagree. BHVR actually has it opposite of how things should be. Generators should baseline take longer for a single survivor to do, but not get a penalty when multiple survivors do it (maybe even give a bonus). This would naturally "slow" gens down because the problem you are describing has nothing to do with gen speeds, it is a problem of pressure as it relates to spawns.
Try running lethal pursuer and see how survivors spawn in these matches when gens fly so fast. This happens in games where all 4 survivors spawn separate from each other on 3-4 different gens. You can't pressure that many gens at once. The fact that there is a penalty associated with survivors doing gens together, this doesn't make sense. They should encourage survivors to stay together through game mechanics so that killers are able to start the pressure much faster.
The reason why there is this perception of killers being OP against lower skill survivors and survivors being OP in high level MMR is due to the fact that when survivors play efficiently (all 4 on 4 different gens) you can't end a chase fast enough. Literally just holding W (no pallets, windows, vaults, perks, anything) will take a killer 47 seconds to down, then factor in finding a survivor, picking them up, walking to a hook, and then hooking them, the other 3 survivors probably just popped 3 gens. In lower skill games, survivors are often more "scared" of the killer, and tend to stay together in groups so they can hide, or feel safer while doing a gen.
If the survivors had to stay together in groups to be efficient, this means you could effectively pressure multiple survivors at once and they wouldn't be as encouraged to spread out as much. It also will exemplify and encourage the aspect of survivors playing as a team.
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Yes, that's exactly why gen speeds need to be as fast as they are. To prevent camping from guaranteeing 2K+ scores.
And with some of the perks we've been getting, I'm not so sure anymore. Lethal Pursuer, Deadlock, NOED... I think you could make a facecamp build that'd be very difficult, if not impossible to counter.
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So we're are in agreement that tunneling is a necessary evil if gen need to go that fast survivors need to be able to disappear out of the game just as fast
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You want to get off gens to cleanse it though. It’s only as good as the killer can use it
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I can sorta agree with that. I feel like you can just sit there and knock it out instead of looking for it
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Keeping it as it is already ruins the game for the ENTIRE killer player base. Why is it that everything in this game needs to be balanced for survivors and not the other way around?
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Were too deep into the problem to fix it now sadly. Nearly every killer is balanced around how they can effectively perform in the time it takes to complete 5 generators. Nearly every survivor perk is balanced around assuming each gen takes the natural amount of time they always have. The powercreep in this game is undeniably a huge issue, as over the years instead of fixing the time flow of the game we've banaid fixed it with incessantly useless perks.
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Not really. There's plenty of killer players that can win matches without tunnelling.
But I am saying that gen speeds are a necessity due to tunnelling and camping.
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What if each survivor only had 2 hook states instead of 3, but gen speeds are cut in half (as in, only take half as long to complete)?
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Look when 3 gens pop in one chase tunneling becomes necessary i don't have time to 3 hook at that point. The only way for a killer to apply pressure is to remove someone out of the game.
Most the killers like that have 2k+ hours and they are generally playing people that aren't as skilled as them
There's also 7 different gens on the map how come you guys will keep going back to this partially done and let it regression a little and go and do one of the other 6 gens on the map?
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What I'm saying is that as a killer it seems cheap that a few survivors can quickly rush a gen before I can reach it, popping one or sometimes even two within the first minute of play. Yet as a solo survivor, if others are running around and not helping me on a gen, a straight minute and a half just to do one feels like way too long.
I didn't say that anyone should be punished for anything. I said that gens feel too fast as killer but too slow as solo survivor, so in my opinion it would be nice to have them a little more evened out.
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Do you want an actual solution or do you just want to shove the problem off to the other side?
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Par for the course is 2 gens done on the first hook.
If you're finding more gens are being done on the first hook, you need to work on your loop game
If you're finding no or one gen done on first hook, someone is doing bones or looking for chests
If you're not proxy camping or tunneling, you're giving the survivor every opportunity. You don't need to ignore a hook.
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This is not completely true I found a survivor chased for a minute or so hooked them 3 gens pop. I was maybe 2 minutes into the match probably less
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