Nemesis ideas for possible changes

Zakkusy

Hey!

Not a frequent poster, but I feel like I should contribute more to the community/devs since I play relatively frequently.

I love Nemesis, I really do. Fun Killer to play, but he's just missing that small touch that Trickster too initially lacked and now has.

Potential changes

The difference between the Tiers feels... off. I think the inconsistent Zombies aren't a good tradeoff for a Tierable power with little power build up, especially when that power can be slowed down with Vaccines. Tier 3 Tentacle range should be Tier 2 or basekit.

In addition (or optionally instead), to make Survivors actually have a real choice with using Vaccines, Tier 3 could be a repeatable thing like Myers does. I know, I know. From what I hear, not many people like the idea of going up and down in power like Myers does and his design is slightly faulty. But in Nemesis' case, that would give Survivors the choice between more Tier ups or protection from hits with Vaccines. And Nemesis would have something to look forward to throughout the match, instead of currently get Tier 2, prioritize pallets over Survivors and if you get Tier 3, great, but it doesn't change things much and especially not a thing you realisticly should pursue or even use addons for.

The new Tier 3 effect shouldn't be as powerful as Myers, however. Something like a good cooldown reduction on tentacle hits (misses and hits) for example could already make it more powerful, or even no slowdown while charging it. Duration could be anything, honestly. Anywhere from 60 to 120 seconds, something that gives a meaningful time for you to use it. Unlike Myers, once you get to Tentacle range, you aren't going to just down them instantly, so having too little time to make use of Tier 3 (especially if it's a cooldown thing, which promotes rapid hits on single/multiple targets) is bad.

Zombies also would make a difference in how you Tier up, as currently using them, even with addons, feels sluggish to Tier up for a goal that doesn't change things up enough. I rarely see other players or myself slapping Zombies unless they are stuck, in the way or you're literally desperate for a Tier 2. With this repeatable Tier 3 mechanic, you would have more incentive to drop some regular Killer gameplay routines to slap some Zombies for a Tier 3.

Potential problems with proposed changes

1. A cooldown reduction on Tentacles, even if it's a non-permanent power, CAN feel oppressive in shorter loops with no LOS blockers. It is a bit like Trickster, who can ignore the loop and just get rapid hits. But unlike with Trickster, the speed boost provided would give Survivors more time to make distance, since the Tentacle is not as long as you can throw a Knife. Still, something to consider
2. It's not within the confines of the Nemesis thematicly. This is not something I can say much on apart from that, since I'm not up to snuff with Nemesis' lore.
3. Tiering up is not always very fun. We've seen it with Myers, and while Nemesis' Tier up would be more active as it's a part of a normal chase and not just slowly walkin' and stalkin', it can still drag especially with Survivors who make you work for each hit. Again, Zombies might alleviate this. That also means you have to waste a good duration of getting to a Zombie -> Slapping -> Tiering up -> then finding a Survivor while time wastes. It is a tricky balance.
4. These changes might also end up looking good on paper but not work in practise. Again, Survivors who make you work for those hits can in alot of cirmunstances just stall the whole duration of Tier 3. It happens with Myers, even with his insta-down, extended lunge and a duration of 60 seconds by default. His Pallet break potential and associated cooldown reduction can alleviate this, however.
5. Rapid hits might be too hard to pull off, seeing as Nemesis' whip hitbox is so peculiar. This comes down to player skill and the dodging skill of Survivors, but it can still make his Tier 3 look pathetic. But this is also the case with Myers, again.

That's it for now, I'm gonna come back to this thread later and update it if I come up with something else, and potentially to respond :3 Thanks for reading!

TLDR; Tier 2 with current Tier 3 Tentacle range and/or repeatable Tier 3 for a limited power akin to Myers (with Tier 3 new power having things like cooldown reduction or even no slowdown with Tentacle). Gives Nemesis' more to look forward to, and Survivors more choices with Vaccines.

ARTRA

"In addition (or optionally instead), to make Survivors actually have a real choice with using Vaccines".

This is what im 100% with you. Contamination can be ignored, and if nemesis chases you, you are going to avoid tentacle with or without contamination (but with more fear), not a really game change.

Next patch they are reducing the amount of time nemesis need to hit to reach tier 3.

I would love some work on contamination/vaccines, my suggestion:

• Contamination debuff survivors somehow, lets say 5% slow action speed (just a random example it could be something else).
• Instead of chest, somethin more like plague and freddy, a table where you can craft a vaccine, infinite uses, only contaminated survivors can use this (like plague fountains or freddy clock).

With this i think survivors could have somewhat a reason to look for a vaccine but the debuff should not be to oppresive, also with more uses of the vaccine, vaccine addons get indirect buffed like Jills Sandwich and that Umbrella thing that no one likes xD because in theory surv "should" use more vaccines. Instead one less chest, one less table to work for another addon.

In short, more vaccines but stronger contamination.

Also zombies are ok, they give you vision, roam around, stop some gens, sometimes bodyblock, the only thing i would "fix" its the stuck thing.

Dino7281

Just fix that you are not able to hit crouching survivors over loops and windows, then I will be happy with him.

Zombie AI might take some help too.