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Killer just isn't good to play...
And the queue times certainly reflect the high demand for the role......
Whether it's the hatred of basically every map in the game, from maps where every tile is LT, double LT, or cabin, or maps where there's probably actually 40+ windows, or maps where every gen is totally safe and inside a house, 2nd floor or basement... i.e. MAPS that just feel like an auto-loss...
Or games that are going fine, struggle on both sides, then BAM, all of a sudden everyone escapes. Guess they had a key, maybe even found it in a chest...
And god forbid simply going against good Survivors, rather than Survivors that run into you all game because they don't know what a terror radius is... And feeling the sheer helplessness of an actual 4v1 video game...
It's just not fun anymore...
And don't say something like, "Take a break," or, "Then play something else."
These types of responses don't properly bring attention to the game's legitimate issues. Because like I said, the fact that Killer queues are instant 24 hours a day really speaks volumes. In a game where you need 4 times as many Survivors, but there are always enough to instantly fill a lobby...
Please just... stop... being dumb with this game...
Comments
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this game literally will be dead in 1-2 years ahead. imbalance gameplay with killer and survivor player, make this lobby game very long to wait, they need to give incentive more when player willing to play as a killer, not really fun to chase 4 human with a coordinated comms when you only want to have fun
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Sorry but if it's not fun for you anymore don't torture yourself and take a break. It's only game
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Game is not gonna die in 1-2 years.
And it's not always "4 human coordinated comms" because you lost.
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Killer is the easiest it has ever been and STILL people struggle with playing Killer.
It is impossible to make it that easy that every Killer can have easy games... The game is also not that imbalanced as people claim it to be. On the very highest Level, it is imbalanced, but 99,99% of the players are not at this level (including those who complain about it..).
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Well this is why I made a point to say, quite simply, playing versus good Survivors is problem enough. No, they don't even NEED to be a coordinated SWF or whatnot.
They can just be 4 individually skilled solo queue Survivors, and they will trounce you.
If you took 4 random Survivors from the top... I dunno, top 1,000 Survivors in the game, and faced them against the top 100 Killers, I'd put my money on the Survivors every time. I wouldn't win every bet, but I'd certainly make major bank overall.
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This type of argument is very frequently used in every discussion in every game, because it is generally a very bland and "filler" kind of point to try to make.
First - if there's a problem at the highest level, then that still means the effects bleed out into all levels. We aren't playing a different game. Additionally, the difference between the top 1% of players and the top 2% of players is so minimal, YOU yourself wouldn't even be able to identify the tiny differences. That being said, you don't really understand what you're saying when you make the "point" you're trying to make. Skillful players account for a deeper percentage than the 1% you seem to think. And frankly, the only place where Killers are having "easy games" is against newbies who don't even know what loud noise notifications are.
Killers are OP when everyone's on day 1.
But to suggest that they're up to par after that point? Well, that's just silly.
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Killer queues aren’t instant for me. It seems to depend what time of day you’re playing.
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There is a BIG difference between those players who play tournaments (where it actually becomes inbalanced) and the regular public Matches. First difference is that you will not encounter tournament players in public matches because they dont bother with them. They are playing KYF, because it is also not fun to dominate every Killer, because most Killers are also pretty bad at the game.
And in regular games - yes, you get skilled Survivors. But that is about it, they are just good at the game. And those are really the minority. Survivors also got nerfed for 5 years now while Killers received Buffs most of the time. Every Killer is viable against the majority of Survivors.
I dont really know what you want more. It is logical that Killer has to be the harder role, it is the 1 in the 1v4, obviously it has to be harder.
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That mindset will end up killing any game.
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When you say it's not fun ANYMORE you mean that you used to have fun with killer in the past? I don't think killers have been ever in a better state in the game (maybe before the hit validation patch). I still have plenty of fun as killer even with all the problems that very slowly are getting solved even if some others emerge. I don't know your playstyle but the thing that made me enjoy the killer role more than survivor was not trying to follow the rulebook and to lower expectations when I play weak killers.
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If you don't like playing killer, stop. I'm not being a brat here. Why are you playing a game you don't like? Not to mention the fact that the game has never been easier for killer than it is right now. I'm not sure how long you've been playing, but loops have been reworked, windows have been removed, survivors perks have been destroyed, End Game Collapse exists at all, just to name a few major changes that help killers.
If you're not having fun, take a break. Don't but the Tome so you feel like you HAVE to play. Or try survivor for a while. Why are you playing a game you don't like? Because you used to like it? I promise you, they're not changing it back.
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MMR should help with this. Theoretically, once everyone calms down from the initial shock and stops playing extra sweaty because they anticipate their opponent must be sweaty too of course.
But once people start playing normally with MMR, they should settle into their skill brackets, and it will help out the 'weaker' killers. Low mobility M1 killers will legitimately do worse against higher skilled survivors, so you should end up matched against slightly less skilled survivors, meanwhile Blights, Spirits and Nurses who can deal with the higher skill will get that higher skill. You won't be 'forced' to play 'strong' killers, every killer will be viable in it's own niche, and that should get more people playing killer.
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Trickle down potential bro. If tournament swf can beat most killers with 0 deaths and even 0 hooks, then a decent swf will beat most killers with 0-1 deaths and a couple of hooks.
There is a hard wall that all killers hit and then start to rely on a "weak link" in the survivors to get any gameplay. What if there isn't a weak link?
I can't wait for mmr, sadly it looks like they are going to ruin it to appease to streamers.
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I'm still having a blast as killer tbh.
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Yeah, but the health of one's psyche should take precedence over any hobby. If what you do for fun is no longer fun for you, you're not doing yourself any favours bypushing through it resentfully when you could be taking a temporary break to refresh your relationship to it IMO
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If you're struggling with infinite L T loops then @Lord_Tony has some good advice on dealing with them
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The game is imbalance that a fact. But its true not everyone play on the highess level. But just having a decent team against a decent killer will make the game imbalance. Because for a killer to win he need to outskill the survivor he cant be on the same level as them because its a 4v1 and the survivor are able to 1v1 a killer.
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I don't know what region are you playing on but on mine (SA) survivor is instant through almost the entire day while killer takes 3~5 min. The opposite only happens late at night, where killer is instant and survivor takes 3~5 min.
Playing killer has never been so easy imo. I only run 1 slowdown perk on all my killers (Corrupt Intervention) and still 4k/3k+hatch around 90% of my games. We're almost on September and I've probably depiped only around 10 times this year, and I usually play low/mid tier killers like Ghostface and Legion. Solo survivor is the truly miserable experience in this game, and in fact I just dropped it for SWF because everyone is just spamming Blight and Nurse with slowdowns and you can't deal with those on solo.
Be patient and try to watch some guides on Youtube. Otzdarva has like 20 guides for new/average players, and I remember Scott Jund having a guide on how to run all tiles. Basically every killer in the game also has in depth guides on how to play them on Youtube and Steam.
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I'm sorry to hear that. Genuinely.
Have you tried learning different killers? That could help.
What are your expectations? This is a big one. Changing your expectations/criteria for victory can go a long way towards making the game enjoyable again.
I play killer/survivor 70/30. Always the Shape when I play killer. I've had plenty of matches where I got shut down and run over. Gotta take that with a grain of salt, because it's inevitable.
I recommend new killers or all new builds on your favorite killers. Hope that helps.
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No, the effects of high level play don't filter down to lower levels of play, otherwise every game would be extremely survivor sided. Instead games are Killer sided about about 10 to 20 percent.
Skillful players actually does account for about 1% of players if not less. And that's pretty much true for every game people play.
Killers are OP because they're getting a 60% to 70% kill rate.
And yes, Killers do have it hard, but not because of getting kills since they do get more kills than survivors get escapes, but because you are having to juggle a lot of stuff. Juggling a lot of stuff is stressful but it's also fun.
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I only played since may 2021.
But how was killer not easier at launch, where moris worked with no hooks, and there was no perks like dead hard, BT or decisive strike?
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Infinites were removed and maps were shrunk. Those are both massive nerfs to survivors.
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I feel the same what I left for about 2yrs I came bad about a month ago. I hit green ranks like a week ago and is been super efficient players ever since. My longest q is 2 minutes(normally instant) and the I get 2-3 red or purple ranks and I just lose i cant keep up with them they are way more skilled and have more time invested and its normally 3/4 of the team
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Take a break or play something else is pretty much the appropriate response
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But if he comes back to the same problem what goods a brake going to do?
I took a 2yr brake and its not as bad as it was then most of the same problems exist.
Have meta or 1k hours or your going to have a stressful killer experience
The grind
Broken MM
Super survivor sided maps
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I hope queue times get so bad that they actually do something because there is no point playing killer unless you enjoy getting tbagged and mocked 24/7
Its ######### horrid, no wonder queues for killers are insta, is a ######### meme
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Because Survivors had even broken Stuff. If we talk about the Launch:
There were double as many Pallets.
There were WAY more Windows. E.g. Ironworks, the upper Floor, every Window was open.
There was no Bloodlust and no Entity Blockers, so there were actual Infinites, Spots where the Killer cannot catch Survivors.
Some Maps were bigger.
Some Structures got reworked a lot in 2020. E.g. Ironworks again: there was no Doorway next to the Window Downstairs, so it was a Window where you had to vault 3 times for the Entity Blocker to kick in. So basically, you were unable to chase Survivors there.
BT worked for both players when it was introduced, so both had BT (even tho, the mechanic was different, back then you had to heal to get out of the "Endurance"-State (Endurance was not a thing back then).
Brand New Parts completed a full Gen.
Syringes healed two Health States, Styptic Agents healed one Health State, both instant.
DS when introduced activated shortly after Pickup, no Unhook Requirement or anything. Later they changed it that only the Obsession has it shortly after pickup, other Survivors had to wiggle for 35% of their Wiggle Bar. So you might not have been able to pick the Obsession up, if there is no Hook nearby to dribble them (dropping them to avoid the DS) and even if you were able to dribble, it was so time-consuming.
Exhaustion was not a thing, back then a Perk like Sprint Burst was on 20 second Cooldown which also went down while running, so every 20 seconds the Survivor had Sprint Burst.
With Self Care and We Will Make it you were able to heal yourself faster than the recovery time of the Killer.
Vault Speeds of Killers were WAY slower, meanwihle Survivors were always able to fast-vault.
Those are just some things. And even then Killers were able to get Kills. Players who complain nowadays that Killer is hard really dont understand how easy it became. I am not saying that Nerfs or Buffs were not deserved, but saying that Killer is hard (or some say it has became harder or unplayable, lol) is simply wrong.
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Sure, it may have become easier but killer right now is not easy.
Jason in friday 13th the game is easy, because he is designed to be overpowered.
Killers in dbd are designed to be balanced and it makes them not easy.
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Just because something op has been neft doesn't mean its not still broken or problematic(nurse) saying survivors are weaker now then ever doesnt mean they are not still super strong. Plus they just buff a bunch of maps and put a bunch of safe loops next to each other.
Oh and I've seen a few double palettes make a appearance not many to be fair.
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In my opinion, Killer is pretty easy. Like, I would consider myself as an average Killer at best and I enjoy playing Survivor more, still I did not manage to get Rank 1 as Survivor last Rank Reset, but was Rank 1 as Killer pretty quickly. And I 4K most of my games and I am really not good at playing Killer.
I always think if I can manage to do well as Killer, someone who calls themselves a Killer Main should have an easier time than me.
Double Pallets can spawn on rare Occasions if the Minimum number of Pallets are not reached after placing all the Tiles. So if you have a lot of T/L-Walls or Tank Tracks, Tiles which dont spawn Pallets, but have not reached the minimum amount of Pallets, the game will spawn Double Pallets.
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Honestly its only been like 4 times in the month I was more poking fun at it.
What are your hrs if you don't mind me asking
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Around 6400 hours. But again, most of them are on Survivor. But nowadays I play both sides pretty equally.
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This may be anecdotal but I've found that playing as killer takes a lot longer to become (fairly) consistently enjoyable than playing as survivor. Most killers who aren't Wraith take a decent amount of time and practice to become effective with, and even then when you've found the one (or two, or what have you) that you feel good with, and can get some kills with, you still need a lot of practice to learn not only map layouts but also survivor behaviors - especially those damn sweaty survivor squads that pretty much all of us hate.
In my experience (American Midwest), sunup to sundown is basically survivor time. The queues go quickly. An hour or so after sundown is when survivor queues start drying up and you get into games much faster by playing as killer. The games are usually okay. But the closer you get to the middle of the night, the more sweaty the survivors tend to get. Then sunup nears, and it's back to being a survivor game.
I'd say to try to focus on one killer, finding the one you feel most confident with, and try to play when survivor queues start to be faster but it's not yet Sweat Squad Hour.
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And thats the problem your game knowledge and experience is way pass they average player base your knowledge on survivor alone tells you how they are going to act when you play killer.
Now I have about 240hrs most on survivor and most I put in about 2yrs ago before I took a brake. I started playing for fun leveling who ever I wanted it worked just fine untell about green gens started flying and I had no meta perks because I didn't know I would need them.
In my personal opinion the problem is that rank 20-12ish the game is very killer sided you really don't need any skill or game knowledge to win because survivors suck they wander the map and you run into them and they have no clue how to loop or use any resources properly. So as a killer you don't really learn anything because the survivors aren't doing anything for you to learn from. But then around greenish survivors start to loop right and use resources more correctly and as a killer you end up with a wide variety of skill levels on survivor where they can properly loop and things to where your trying to just now learn stuff that they had 8 ranks to figure out
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"Spirit used to have collision, and survivor play has been the easiest it's ever been and people STILL struggle against Spirit." Sounds coarse and ignorant if not outright silly doesn't it?
A correct version of what you said is " The game is unbalanced, but most people are not able to live up to the unbalanced advantage that the game offers them." DBD is DBD. The game doesn't magically become another one based on who's playing it. The game's unbalanced because it's unbalanced not because sweat squads exist. The sweat squads are just good players that play the best that they can by milking DBD's unbalanced mechanics that DBD even breaks with survivors with more restrictions than you'd see in pub matches. Non-sweats not being able to abuse these mechanics as well as them does not mean that the mechanics are ok.
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All I am saying is to be biased for survivor is to use logical fallacies left and right and have difficulty with simple math. Not trying to be rude, but facts are facts.
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No, survivor is. Try playing against unpredictable and uncounterable hitboxes, aura perks, all slowdown perks, watching your team on their belly at 5 gens. That is almost every match too. Please don't tell me killer isn't good to play. Killer needs to be much harder than what it is.
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Moonwalking and hoping your opponent falls for it isn't good advice. Nor does it make that type of tile any better. Especially, ESPECIALLY, on a map where you can run from one LT to another LT right next to it. That means a Survivor can ALWAYS just "hold W" when they suspect you might be doing a moonwalk, and viola, a totally new LT & reset on the chase.
Saying the removal of INFINITES is a Survivor nerf is technically true, but if you don't realize how silly you look just by saying that, then I don't know if we can hold a conversation. Nerfing something that used to actually INFINITE a Killer, into no longer being able to do that, doesn't even REMOTELY imply that this thing is now "fair".
Imagine this in the context of anything else.
"Ryu can no longer shoot unblockable Hadokens that do 100% of your life bar and cover up the whole screen."
Are you left thinking, "Wow, he must be fair now," or are you left thinking, "Uhhhh okay... Why was that ever a thing... Okay, so, what does it CURRENTLY do?"
Yes, I consider LT's maybe the best looping tile in the game. If you disagree, and if the general populace disagrees, that doesn't change my opinion. I have this belief as one who plays both sides.
Why would I show you my gameplay? It would become a source of confirmation bias. Every little thing I do wrong would confirm your belief that I'm "just bad". And you'd count my mistakes, however never count the Survivor mistakes. It would be a totally useless disaster.
LT's are not only strong, but obviously strong. Most people who claim they're not even that good end up saying something like, "They become a 50/50 with mind games." And in what world is a 50/50 not innately strong in a 4v1 game where dedicating to a chase can mean 3 gens pop, and each Survivor has to be hooked 3 times in order to die?
And that's assuming they're 50/50's, which I wouldn't say they are. And, again, ESPECIALLY on maps where LT's are connected to other LT's. Those are actual infinites, barring special things like Nurse or... ... honestly, Bamboozle doesn't even counter a double LT...
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I've tried MOST Killers, yeah. Sadly, I tend to end up liking Killers that are more or less shackled to their M1 weaknesses. Huntress doesn't interest me, I hate playing Slinger, etc etc...
My expectation is... ... well, that's the wrong word. My expectation is to get 0k if I'm against decent players. But I consider 2k a tie. Honestly, with how the game is, I should consider 1k a tie, instead, with 2k being a win.
However, while not rank 1, I only consider the pip system for my wins or losses. Only while rank 1 do I consider the actual... game outcome to be my metric.
My hope is to get 3k in most my games (since hatch can be so hard to prevent, usually meaning you slug the 3rd person a lot, but trying to find the 4th person who could be absolutely anywhere is a pain). But some nights, it's just SWF Day, and 1k's feel lucky. And you could spend 5 years beating up on Survivors that seem to hand you hits all game, but once you face against people that DON'T do that, it really puts the gamestate under a spotlight. Like, "Oh, right, this is how the game actually is. I forgot, with all the actual potatoes running around."
As a consistent rank 1 Killer, I obviously win in the large majority of my games. But when the easy losses come in, it kind of makes you look at even your past wins, and hold less value to them, and even retroactively feel like you DIDN'T have fun with them, because beating up on target dummies isn't really that fun, honestly.
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If killer isn't fun anymore, either switch to survivor or stop playing completely. There's no shame in either choice.
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RANKING UP on Killer is easier than on Survivor.
This does not mean that Killer is easier than Survivor.
It means that the ranking system is silly, particularly on Survivor.
However, that being said, I DO believe that Killer is technically easier than Survivor. However, that does NOT mean that Killer is STRONGER than Survivor.
Survivor has more to it. They have more tools, and more power. Additionally, they are more people. All of these factors mean that playing Survivor to their maximum potential is much harder than playing Killer to its maximum potential.
Because Killer's maximum potential is much lower than Survivor's.
When analyzing things, it's important to not make things mean any more than they mean. An equation must stop where it stops.
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So what, taking into account the 70% kill rate at red ranks, is your balancing suggestion?
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I enjoy Survivor more, to a degree.
The problem is - of course - that it tends to be a solo queue experience. And I literally just ragequit a game where everyone REFUSED to let me heal them with Make It, even when the Killer was distinctly across the map. And everyone was failing gen skill checks constantly. And losing their chases in actually 3-5 seconds (largely due to always being in injured state).
These are not fun experiences, either. It really feels like the only ones allowed to have fun in DBD are the SWF's.
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Turn mmr on and those kill rates will become sub 50% with ease. Rofl.
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Stats, in general, in any game, are really hard to take seriously. For a plethora of reasons, for any given game.
In DBD, the difference between solo queue and SWF is the biggest reason.
That being said, my balancing suggestions are the following, without even touching the actual gameplay or balance of it:
- Put on an option to not be matched against SWF's. This option will be default off, so you are defaulted to match against SWF's. That way, the large majority of people who don't care enough to go into their options menu, or who don't know about the option or read patch notes, will still have it enabled. HOWEVER, those that don't want to fight SWF's will be able not to. (And let's be open about the reality that this game, for 5 years, has been openly NOT balanced around SWF's even existing.)
- Make a separate ranking bracket for when you're against SWF's. Whether or not this is a separate queue could go either direction, with keeping them the same queue probably being ideal.
Just two ideas, so not many, but pretty good considering they don't even touch the actual game, I'd say.
Just picking one of these would improve the gaming experience, in my opinion.
As for actual gameplay balancing, oh boy, I could really sit down and brainstorm that for days on end...
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I wanna see that. Because I really believe that you're wrong.
Sadly, a non-swiffer queue would split the playerbase too much, but some MMR adjustment for swiffer might work.
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It would be nice to know if it was a swf. That way you could make the decision to use the meta build against swf and maybe some non meta or meme against solo or even a 2 man isn't to bad
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I want to state that I'm not cherry-picking your post and trying to pretend it represents your party's thoughts, but I AM going to respond to your post here.
Hitboxes aren't unpredictable, and I don't even know what an "uncounterable hitbox" even means. A hitbox is simply... the zone in which collision exists, attached to a certain entity (like a player or NPC). A hitbox isn't something to be... "countered". Unless you noclip, or something...
So, what exactly? Something like Huntress axe, the most infamously FAT hitbox collision? Huntress is "easily" countered, though. I say "easily" and quote it because it becomes a skill matchup, but the point is, it's your job to not just run in a straight line every time a Huntress has her eyes on you. You have to actually play the game, not just get downed and complain that Huntress has a ranged attack.
Juking works VERY well. And there are also varying degrees of said juking. Sometimes, you want to actually juke at a hard 90 degree angle, even. Because this gets you more distance away from your original point than if you strafed sideways while moving forward. Sometimes, after juking, you might even want to NOT juke at all. And most of all, you want to keep breaking line of sight, and you can almost always do this.
If you're talking about window vaulting, you simply need to know when a window is safe or not. Just because you got to a window before having already been hit DOES NOT MEAN you should now be able to vault it 100% every time and not be hit during or after the vault.
Vaulting is not God Mode.
And, additionally, you ALWAYSSSSS have to account for latency, in LITERALLY EVERY online video game. But for some reason, DBD has this air about it, where people forget this fact of life. Now, if they cut something REALLY close, but get hit anyway, they call it "WONKY HITBOXES" instead of, "Well, we're not on a LAN, so I simply didn't prepare well enough according to online play."
Aura perks?? You consider this a problem?? What perks, even???
Barbecue, while extremely common, and maybe the most useful one... is still VERY counterable. First of all, you have ALL the time in the world to act. A Survivor gets DOWNED, then PICKED UP, then CARRIED TO A HOOK, and then bam. Finally, the hook happens, and the aura effect is there for a mere 4 seconds. If you can't hide behind a gen, or hide in a locker, or get within 40 meters, then that's 200% on you.
Slowdown perks??? Complaining about slowdown perks just means you want the Killer to be afk so you can stroll around and play Animal Crossing but with generators. No slowdown perks are even busted. The only "annoying" one is Ruin, but once you hunt it down, the payoff is huge, as the Killer is now empty on perk slots.
I'm going to be honest. Your complaints (which I have spent too long responding to) strike me as... coming from someone who only plays solo queue Survivor, and at pretty low ranks at that. (Or high ranks, depending how you look at it. High numbers, lol.)
And that's fine. Everyone's allowed to have complaints. And not everyone can be good, or high(low?) ranked, or whatever metric you wanna use.
But that also comes with the fact that not all complaints have equal weight.
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Sometimes you just can't win as killer, even after you've given it your bloody all. The combination of survivor skill level, map RNG, perks, items, and gen speed can just be too much in the survivors' favor.
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It's a famous troll, don't bother
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