I'm So Sick Of Hearing "NOED Is Fine"
It's not.
Let's say in this fairly realistic hypothetical scenario:
Bubba immediately finds, downs, and facecamps a survivor to death about 1 min into the game. In those 120 seconds it would take for Claudette to die as well as the additional 60 seconds from before, an average of 3-4 gens would be completed. Cool, almost all the gens are done. Bubba doesn't catch anyone after, then the final gen gets done. That survivor Bubba couldn't catch? NOED helped him out with a little speed boost and instadown. Bubba facecamps that survivor to death. The others can't do anything about it.
Is NOED fine in this instance?
Even assuming that survivors were looking for the totems while the first survivor was being camped, that would mean less gens would get done, giving Bubba more time to kill. This is assuming that the survivors even find the totem in the first place. On maps like Grim Pantry where the totems can spawn in some random corner away from everything else hidden in grass, are survivors expected to reliably cleanse those totems in a timely manner on that big map?
The problem with NOED is that it requires absolutely no input from the killer in order to activate such a game-changing effect. With Ruin, pressuring survivors encourages them to leave gens. Devour and Lullaby require hooks to increase their power. Crowd Control and Blood Favor require the killer to give chase for their effects to activate. Even Plaything requires a survivor to get hooked. Haunted is pretty much the only exception to this and coordinated survivors or weary solo queue players can figure out what it is, plus, it only lasts a minute.
With NOED, the survivors don't know it's in play until its effect is applied.
Solo queue players can't coordinate totem placements, especially on indoor maps or maps or very large ones.
It's effect is overly powerful for how little it requires from the killer.
If a Wraith can just run Bitter Murmur, No Way Out, and NOED and sit in the corner the entire game until the gens are done, then just go around and one-shot slug the team to death, NOED may be a problem.
Comments
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NOED is fine. Do bones or risk a challenging EGC. It takes up a whole perk slot that is situationally dependent. It's hardly earned, but it's been paid for. Survivors shouldn't be moping around during EGC.
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NOED is fine, the problem is the survivors didn't cleanse every totem. And I agree with @PalletsAndHooks response as well.
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A killer being able to get at least 2 free kills from doing absolutely nothing just because NOED exists is not fine. NOED should require the killers to actually perform suitably to get any use out of it.
Also, it doesn't activate during EGC, it activates when the gens are done. What are you talking about?
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If NOED is fine, keys are fine
Both require very little and offer a high reward
Both allow you to bypass something, in the killer's case it's a whole health state (and increased movement speed) and in the survivors case it allows them to either leave before all the gens are done or without opening an exit gate.
:)
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Did you... even read the post?
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It always amazing to read responses from people who either totally ignore the point of a post or have only read the caption.
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Both situational though. It doesn't pay off everytime.
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Your implication is that NOED is fine only because keys exist which is a terrible argument which also implies that I think keys are fine, which I don't.
Keys are not fine, and neither is NOED. This post isn't about keys. Try again.
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I find it peak DBD forums that the first two responses are literally "NOED is fine."
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I hate this site so much.
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I did, and solo players can use perks to counter totems. It's a gamble every match. If you want to counter totems run a counter. Don't look at the perk as the problem it's the fact no one countered it. I think NOED is great against players who don't acknowledge totems.
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Detective's hunch and a map there you go no more NoEd.
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Yea that's fine. Kill the key bearer or allow the survivors to escape. Personal accountability is applied anywhere. The killers role is intensive, demanding, and filled with chores.
Camping and tunneling are fine.
Dropping pallets on killers that don't respect pallets is fine.
Moris are fine, although a little underwhelming these days.
Most the intended game mechanics are fine, it's the insane number of bugs and censorship overreach that is not fine. You can't type "phone" or "Yin-Jin" in post game chat. Maps are disproportionately distributed across zones and some killers don't have their own unique zones. There's bunch of QOL that is not fine, but NOED, keys and other hot topics are mechanically fine.
Maybe the hatch should have a short animation, like a chest or bones, but even hatches are fine.
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Whataboutism and bias- The entirety of this forum.
For the record, I agree. I think NOED is an issue and the statement "Just do bones" is the same as "Just pressure gens lol"
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Bubba with NOED is fine. It's simply more favorable for survivors for Bubba to take NOED, which is a disadvantage for Bubba but it's fine. Really weird perk pick imo.
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Trickster, Huntress, Spirit, Freddy. The situation won't change with any killer. If the survivors a camping killer with NOED will get a second kill either by camping or because a teammate unwisely traded.
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NOED is fine. The problem is survivors don't want to counter it. So they come to the forums and cry. Hoping the devs will remove the perk. The last few patches there have been many buffs/perks to find totems.
Detective's hunch, small game now has a totem counter, Inner Str heals you if you cleanse a totem and hide in a locker. Pinheads perks inflicts a status affect until you cleanse a totem that you can see from like 16 meters. I secretly think the devs are trying to say "Cleanse da bones"
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Getting a 2k is a loss for the killer and a win for the survivor so i see no issue with that
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Mate, you're argument is very bad. Hypothetical situation where a perk wins the game can be made about many perks and most of them would be perks of survivors. Dead Hard, Adrenaline, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable and more. Should we nerf these perks just cuz they can be abused? Heck naw. Most situations if killer runs NOED, means they are very new to the killer and want some kills and if that's the case then it's survivors fault for not doing bones. I'm not forgetting about the other side of toxic killers who want survivors to suffer, but as I said before survivors can do the same to killers.
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What's the problem with NOED? Open the gates and get the fudge out... If the killer gets more than 1 kill because of NOED then survivors played a very bad EGC.
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The "just bring x perk" argument completely ignores the contents of the post, by the way. It's a lose-lose scenario.
If NOED isn't in use, that's time wasted on something that isn't gens.
If it is, that's still time ticking down on the survivor left on hook and the others can't do anything about it until NOED is cleansed.
If you didn't see it before, in simple terms: NOED creates unwinnable scenarios in the killer's favor. No perk should do this.
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You 100% have no idea what my argument even is.
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Noed is fine.
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It isn't about how the perk can win the game. It's about how it requires nothing from the killer in order to get any use from it. Your counterpoint doesn't apply to my argument. Your argument is bad.
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Why are people saying EGC like NOED only activates in the EGC?
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Doing bones is not a counter at all to NOED. Unless you’re using a rainbow map, or a map with detective’s the other anti-perks are not at all good for cleansing totems. A solo survivor going after totems with counterforce or small game is a guaranteed win for the killer.
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This notion that killers should 4k and survivors should get 4 escapes is dumb af. Should you try and make for the clean game? Yeah but you're playing a solo game aswell as survivor, your survival is your priority. SWF or Solo. At a point you have to make a choice and commit to it. Heal or finish gen, Rescue or finish gen, escape or rescue, etc. You can't have both in the vast majority of cases. I don't care if it' an SWF or not, my survival is my priority, i'll do whatever i can to help the whole team but once gens are done i'm out. The killer has no reason to chase someone else while he has someone on hook during EGC.
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Yes, we should just bring a map and the same perk for every game, great.
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You should be able to get 2 hits before they unhook if you're nearby. That would be a trade and wouldn't deny the kill. This argument doesn't work at all if the savior is injured. That'd just be an extra kill.
This argument only applies if they have Unbreakable or DS at all and assumes the hook is near the gate. Can't recover and move closer either so DS can just be waited out.
People always use this argument, I'm not even gonna address that because this is a post about NOED.
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Know what you’re talking about before commenting ty
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You're literally proving that you don't know what my argument is because you're using this argument which is irrelevant to mine????
You don't know what my argument is.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Does Dead Hard, Unbreakable or Decisive Strike requires something something from survivor other than perk slot?
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NOED is not unwinnable. You can still escape with noed activated. You can even find the totem and cleanse it. The problem here is you are not adapting. Until you realize that you will still lose to noed.
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Did you read the OP? The situation they describe doesn't really have a counter. In general I feel noed is fine, but in that situation there's fuckall you can do.
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Your problem isn't how strong the perk is, your problem is it being used by killers you perceive to be bad at the game, the actual effect is perfectly counterable, honestly if NOED popped after a normal, 6-8 hook game with no camping and survivors on death hook as they leave, it wouldn't feel as unfair.
But because in this scenario the bubba is facecamping (and ngl some people do use it like this, its just that its not the strength of the perk that's the issue) so you feel like you outplayed the killer and the downs he got with noed are cheap or unearned.
Theres no way around it unless you drastically change how the game works or just straight up remove the perk. Just do bones and live with it.
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Then remember where they spawn at if you can't or don't want to use perks and items.
Stop speed running the gens and take a couple of seconds to break the totems.
You can stop NoEd from coming in to play just do the totems.
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I read your post. I understand where you're coming from. The design of this game is simplistic, you can also make an argument that a majority of the survivor perks used do not earn their effect. Many of which can be game changers.
As with all Hex perks, NOED could be a completely wasted perk slot. With how popular ruin/undying still is in the meta by doing bones you can terminate two of a killers perks very quickly. The whole point of a Hex perk is it's supposed to be a high risk vs reward. If you'd like to revert NOED back to it's 120 second origins non-Hex I don't think you'll hear too many arguments from killers.
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This is a NOED post.
Stop bringing up keys.
Stop bringing up other perks. My god.
Dead Hard requires timing and chase knowledge as well as for the survivor to be injured.
Unbreakable requires other survivors to distract the killer to get any use out of it.
DS requires the survivor to be recently unhooked. They can't use it any time they're picked up anymore.
These arguments are terrible.
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What did the survivor do to earn SB,DH, UB,etc...
Need can only be used ones(maybe) during end game the survivor perks can be use multiple times throughout the whole match including end game and they didn't earn them
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The act of oppening the gates is irrelevant for the killer. He can't stop 2 gates and hatch when it's not a 1v1 and he finds hatch first. The time it takes to find 1 survivor on 1 of the gates, down them and hook them means the other 1 can open the other gate or get the hatch. What good would NOED do if the gates are already open? That's why Survivors should simply just open the gates and leave. Do you know how much killers have to get lucky to use Bloodwarden? Bloodwarden would be busted if there wasn't a hook requirement but the hook requirement makes Bloodwarden so much harder to use plus you have to time it during EGC, Survivors have no reason to not leave. THEY SHOULD LEAVE.
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Bubba is fine. But I hate him too
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These NOED threads are really getting old. Slap on small game, detectives hunch, or counterforce, maps and cleanse totems if you don’t wanna deal with it.
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Except they are as stubborn for all to escape as they make every killer out to be for their 4k.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS IS MY POINT
If the killer has done nothing all game then can suddenly gain a kill or two just because NOED activated then that's cheap. If they're getting hooks nd pressuring survivors to get through gens and it's a surprise NOED, fine.
An easy fix IMO would just be require the killer to do 4-5 hook actions to activate the perk.
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Then remember where they spawn at.
You run by them all the time.
Most of them are sitting right next to a gen you're tell me you can't take a couple of seconds to break it?
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Waste of time, since you need all 5 for NOED which is part of the problem. If killers needed 2 dull totems to spawn, then it would be a different story and fairer. But it’s completely impractical to run around the map on a hunt, as that is basically a guaranteed loss in a solo game. Counterforce and small game are garbage for destroying all totems, they will destroy any chances a team has to win.
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I read the post and it changes nothing. Even if NOED got bubba another down how would that have changed anything if he had used his chainsaw instead? That bubba camped someone to death and got another kill using noed. He probably got nothing for that match.
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Completely agree. I read a good suggestion earlier that I mostly agree with:
For everyone who dislike NoED. What do you think of this rework? — Dead By Daylight
With the suggested rework, NOED is insignificant for those that play with the scenario you described. However those that actually play the game normally will hardly notice a difference. It's the same old NOED, except it lasts up to 2 minutes.
Also I feel like most people that have replied haven't even read your post. It's easy to type "just do bones lol" but the scenario you described is actually a problem that isn't solved by "just doing bones" for numerous reasons. Could be a large map with difficult to find totems. Can't be sure if all totems are done for sure in solo queue. Even if you focus on cleansing totems with perks or a map, doing all totems instead of gens creates a 3v1 situation with lets say at max 3 gens done if the first survivor was caught quickly - easily enough time for another survivor to be caught, hooked and camped to death (or traded to death).
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TBH that almost seems preferable but it still has the issue of requiring nothing from the killer for such a strong effect.
The way I feel about NOED is the same way I feel about if Devour didn't require hooks, or if Myers could use a Tombstone without stalking. It's unearned.
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People who play that way don't care about pips or points. They play to grief others.
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