I'm So Sick Of Hearing "NOED Is Fine"
Comments
-
I don't get why people are so opposed to the advocation of a version of NOED that encourages the killer to perform well and engage with the survivors... like pretty much all of the other Hexes do. Like No Way Out does.
0 -
Bubba is a bad example imo only because he's one of the best face campers in the game. So even if they didn't have noed it would be hard to rescue against a face camping bubba. Only when and if you destroy the totem you could try to over heat his chainsaw but thats about it. Totems are a second objective small but still need to be done. There's no excuse why you can't use perks to counter totems you have a wonderful perk called counter force that excels at this. You should not be the only one doing totems if your team isn't doing them but only solely focusing gens and won't bother cleansing that's the risk they take. The thing with noed that people seem to forget is that the killer is running 3 perks the entire match. And it can be destroyed before or after it activates. Not every killer perk needs to be "earned". Most survivor perks aren't earned like BT, IW or UB.
No way out requires hooks to make it work. If wraith sits in a corner all game there should absolutely be no excuse on why you can't do all the totems. Take off one of your meta perks and use a totem cleansing perk or map if you wanna step up. If not risk the noed its up to you. And before the whole "I shouldn't have to bring a perk to counter totems discussion" if killers need gen regression perks to counter gen times, survivors should have perks to counter totems. Thats why they're in the game.
1 -
The gates can just spawn right next to each other.
0 -
It really isn't a choice. It's either have no gen pressure, or face NOED. There needs to be a better way for solos to communicate where bones are, and how many have been cleansed, as I can cleanse 4 dull totems, but then the last one that was cleansed by my team can have me on a wild goose chase for 10 minutes. Solo queue needs buffs, or NOED needs changed, that's my stance on this.
0 -
Yes, it is fine. It's fine because the remaining 2 survivors can use this time to go to well known totem locations and listen/look for the lit totem, and destroy it. Then, at least one of them should have BT, and they can all escape with zero effort. You're also taking one specific scenario and pretending like that scenario defines NOED and its balance. Bad idea.
At the end of the day your major issue in this entire scenario does not highlight the issue with NOED, but an issue with insta-down killers like Billy/Bubba and their efficiency at camping. Sorry.
2 -
The last thing I'm going to ask you is if you have played killer before? Have you experienced the frustration of trying to learn to play killer or a new killer and you constantly have games that survivors are all escaping? which brings me back to my last point that its usually* the unexperienced killers that run this perk in the first place. The last piece of advice I will leave you with is once you learn that this game is just a game and to just take the L and move on from games dbd becomes a lot more enjoyable. Unless your in elo hell below green ranks in my experience your not going to run into noed every game. Just my 2 cents man.
4 -
Can you at least try meaningfully engaging with the other side, or are you hear to just be childish and scream "noed fine do totems" without adding anything to the discussion?
0 -
Yes! You're right! Thank you for showing me that way.
NoEd is OP and must be Nerf.
1 -
And again my point is that many, many perks that survivor's use to change the dynamic of a game also feel unearned. I don't like NOED, I'll agree that I feel it is for bad or 'less experienced' killers to get familiar with the game. But in order for a killer to use NOED two prerequisites must be done:
- Survivors rushing gens, not taking the time for bones
- Survivors make it to gates and killer catches one in it
I can only speak from my experience. When I was using NOED it wasn't a hex yet, I stopped using it gradually as I learned to consistently 4k before the last gen is done. I must say it's definitely useful against survivors who refuse to leave. When I'm playing survivor and the rest of my team runs in to save hook with NOED up I simply leave, if they aren't going to bother with getting it down and just want to run in and die they'll be doing that without me.
I'd also like to add that this game is unfair, it always will be. It's an asymmetrical party game. I could go on a rant about game changing survivor perks but it's a waste of energy.
3 -
Its because the perk is countered by cleansing 5 totems, the perk works like a trump card basically
The whole game the killer only has 3 perks until the endgame, and if the killer reaches endgame and all 5 totems are gone the killer won't have another perk the whole game, No Way Out is different due to it not really being a hex perk, but to sum it up
NOED is balanced around being a trump card, however this perk can be cancelled out immediately without it being put into use.
The reason why I defend it the way I do is because I really want people to learn how good the totem perks really are, as they help deal with hexes and NOED of course.
2 -
I swear, the people saying "do bones" sound like they're never played solo queue nor thought critically about that strategy. First thing's first, you should never be forced to bring a perk to counter the possibility of another perk; that's bad game design. Next, it stands to reason that without coordination, the easiest to find totem spots will be cleansed first, and if you miss one, not only did you waste time doing bones that could have been spent on gens, you now guarantee that NOED is now on the hardest to find totem, again, assuming they even have it in the first place.
Clearly the more efficient strat is to memorize the locations of any dull totems you come across but don't cleanse them, then check those totems after the last gen is done if the killer reveals that they have noed. No time wasted, no self sabotage.
3 -
tbh i'm not really sure lol
0 -
If the perk is there its meant to be used the whole "you shouldn't bring a totem finding perk" is just imo a lazy person's excuse. If noed in your rank is a big problem bring it. Step up to the plate and cleanse totems or wait till the end of the match to find them. Problem is though if you wait at the end and get hit with noed then what was the point of remembering the spot? When you could've cleansed it right then and there but like I said its a risk that you can choose to take.
2 -
Oh, so we shouldn't have to be forced to bring in perks to counter other perks? So then you agree that something must be done about gen times then right? I mean it'd be pretty bad game design if a killer is forced to always take a gen pressure perk just on the chance that someone either brings a BNP or has Prove Thyself right? Again I agree.
4 -
I do not struggle with NOED as a solo survivor.
Additionally, only one of my 3 builds runs a 'totem hunting' perk.
If NOED activates and the killer is camping, I'll take a quick look around for the totem and leave if I can't find it.
I usually cleanse 2-3 totems on my own, per game, when I'm not running my Det.H/HO/QQ/IS build.
When I'm running it, it's usually a guaranteed 3-4 totems....5 if the killer is playing really lax and/or struggling.
When I do play with my pal, she cleanses totems as she sees them, too.
NOED doesn't really impact any of my games in a meaningful way, regardless of what rank I'm playing at (usually Red depending on available time, but ranks are currently meaningless, imo), as a solo survivor - It honestly does not even activate in a fair portion of the games I play, and it's not even selected in an even larger portion.
3 -
That's a subjective opinion. Do bones or risk NOED.
5 -
whataboutisms is not helping your argument
though most experience survivors would in fact say that yes, gens should be changed
0 -
Your struggles, or lack thereof with NOED is pretty irrelevant to the discussion. The talking point is supposed to be that NOED can overly reward killers who were otherwise severely underperforming.
1 -
Because it's not uncommon for the last remaining totem spot to be either extremely hidden in some random dark corner or near the killer. Unless you know or will know all the totem spots it is usually more detrimental to cleanse totems early.
0 -
one of the irritating things is that most games you are the only person destroying totems you can't know if teammates know spawns
0 -
People truly explained why and it's going no where do closed minded opinions.
Here's a question.
There's a Devour with three tokens up the whole time, no one knows it exists because the killer is using their alternative power to hide the exposed effect. (Demo, Nemesis, downing with Victor, Huntress) Update: I might be imagining this part. I need to do a test to see for myself. I'll update it once I get the results
Then there's NOED that does the exact same thing except it's start up is different and you can't potentially mori someone with no hooks. (Yes. It's possible. You just need five tokens and mathematically it's possible)
Which is more of a threat? The Devour that's been up the whole time that can just kill a not hooked survivor and can used any time or the deactivated perk that won't start until all gens are completed which only gives haste (Devour does too) and exposed?
Trick Question. They're both Hexes and literally offer the same thing benefits, the only exception is Devour let's you mori and it can be activated mid to late game while NOED is permanently late game. Which can be countered by getting off your butt and looking instead of gen jockeying. (Not saying you are, but to the people who refuse to do literally anything to counter it and die because of their laziness only to complain about it being OP)
It can be countered by just doing bones and it's so frustrating just reading "that's only a Band Aid fix" that's the definitive point of Hexes, just like how exhaustion perks are meant to extend a chase or end it, Hexes are supposed to be an ever looming threat that needs to be taken care of.
But, no. NOED is the exception, people see this deactivated perk throughout early and mid game which can be permanently removed by doing bones and doesn't spawn a hex totem, but instead possess an already existing dull totem as OP.
In other words, just do bones. No joke. No sarcasm, no ha ha.
Sometimes you just get beat, if you get beat because someone used their perk wisely then there's absolutely no one else to blame BUT YOURSELF. A more OP perk is just something that guarantees a ridiculous buff and gets the objective done faster that HAS NO SHUT OFF.
It's fine. Take care.
4 -
I need to test that. But I swear no one got notified when I kept hitting people with Huntress' hatchets, maybe it's a placebo
0 -
Your basic math gave me an entity displease the only time i can accept 2 escape as a draw is if the last 2 survivor escape by the hatch and i have 10 hook in any other scenario its a lost
1 -
Thanks for clarifying.
I see that the talking point was "The problem with NOED is that it requires absolutely no input from the killer in order to activate such a game-changing effect."
I think you're really going to hate Whispers, A Nurse's Calling, Discordance, Tinkerer, Brutal Strength, Rancor, etc.
Probably not going to be a fan of a lot of survivor perks either.
NOED doesn't really effect my games that much and it's generally easy enough to counter/avoid/escape depending on how I'm playing - I wouldn't really classify it as a 'game changing effect.'
I realize that it's anecdotal, but given that it's the same people complaining about it over and over, from thread to thread, I don't think I'm in the minority.
6 -
The argument that a perk needs to be earned is flawed by far. There are many perks that are in the game that require no input from the user of such perk. Exhaustion perks are a prime example of them on the other side or take Corrupt Intervention which blocks gens furthest away from the killer with no input at all. The idea behind these perks is not to require input or earn them, but they have a downside in the form of being deactivated or activated at specific times.
NOED is a hex perk that is only active after all 5 gens are done. The majority of the game the killer has the negative of having only 3 perks available to them and due to it being a hex means 1 or 5 totem cleanses can get rid of it all together. It is a situational perk at best, it is fine.
2 -
I don't see why not since your entire premise is based around an absurd scenario of a basement camping Bubba who has NOED. Which btw, don't know if you've been told or not, but Bubba doesn't need NOED to camp cus they have a chainsaw that does a better job. But say you change the killer to, I dunno, Trapper. You can play around him. Literally run circles around the hook while someone else runs off to do bones.
You know how many times I've used NOED where I've gotten no value from it? A lot. If I had someone on hook I would have the survivors come at me from different angles, jumping in and out, so that I'd bounce back between them while the 3rd survivor went off and killed my totem. After that, they'd swarm me, unhook and body block all the way to the gates. Hell, in other games the second the other survivors see that NOED is up they do the smart thing and just run out as quickly as they can.
You don't want to hear anyone tell you to "just do bones" but that's the counter to this perk. Just because you had a couple of bad games where you died to NOED or because you're too lazy to do bones, doesn't mean the perk is game breakingly bad. In other words I'm gonna a tell you the same thing that survivors tell me when I get 0 kills in a game. Get good.
5 -
Thats how totem spots should work. Not next to a gen, not in the open, not in a hill but very well hidden. If all totems were very well hidden you would see more diversity with hex perks but spawn locations are so bad. But you're acting like cleansing 1 totem takes up a whole gen to do. If you are exclusively the totem hunter then maybe yes but 1 gen at most. But this is why you're a 4v1 your team mates should help you out. Don't blame the killer blame the team mates.
5 -
I always chuckle when an obvious totem ends up getting my team killed.
"Ah, this totem is next to a hook / in the killer shack next to the basement."
*runs by totem without cleansing*
*NOED Procs*
"NOED SUX"
5 -
The problem you describe there isn't a problem with NOED, it is a problem with camping. They need to fix camping in some systemic way, not nerf a perk that really isn't that good to begin with.
1 -
It feels like that right? lol. And my team mates never find it or if they do im already in the sky getting eaten by the entity. But not until the baby meg runs like a mad lad to the hook and dies.
1 -
How can a solo player cleanse all totems without throwing the game or coordinating with his teammates
0 -
Only in purple rank not rank 1 unless you are legion. My standard are normal i think if survivor escape by the exit gate its a lost whatever the number. Hatch escape is a draw depending on the anount of hook. A 4k is a win
0 -
At this point I agree with OP (given the example)
NOED is a problem... but one with solutions already in place... It's by no means OP
Small Game, Detective's Hunch, Counterforce (that new perk from Jill... that I'll try to get once it shows up on the Shrine... and to a lesser extent Inner Strength
A Map that shows a spot marked to the rest of the team
The sacrifice for using a different perk is map awareness (knowing where totems spawn)
0 -
If the killer is not playing well, you should have plenty of time to do totems, no?
2 -
i think is fine because most survivor meta perks arent earned either, why is that a thing about the killer should always work for everything when already is the hard and bastarded role?. i dont think so, also most good killers dont run them anyway, go to red ranks youll see the perk less often but you will see ruind/undying/tinkerer way more often, its your choice. if noed is such a concern for you bring a map or something, or could play with friends they will deplete the perk and having counting on them.
yes the perk is dumb but also is most survivor meta perks Like dead hard, DS, Borrow time, Prove Thyself, Unbrekable, and guess what? none of those needs to be worked on in order to start functioning... or nothing hard or time consuming in order to start working.
3 -
NOED is not fine, it's perfect.
2 -
The perk itself is fine, but i'd rather it works off of tokens like devour. You need certain hooks before it'll activate in the endgame, so it no longer becomes a bandaid fix for bad killers, it becomes a perk you earn through effective play before the endgame.
0 -
Nobody ever said "Don't use them." There are tons of reasons to use totem perks. I just said you shouldn't ever feel forced to use them.
0 -
Noed is not fine, bad killers use it as a crutch and it spoils games even if the survivors thoroughly outplayed them. The best way to fix this is to only activate it if 6 Hook Stages were achieved
1 -
Do the totems. No, shhhh, don't say anything. Do the totems.
3 -
Cleanse the bones or face the consequences.
Sincerely,
A solo survivor player
2 -
Suggestions like this are a fine way to negate its intended purpose as a power boost/second chance perk during the killer's weakest portion of the game.
Like most second chance perks in the game, being 'thoroughly outplayed' isn't something that should have bearing on its activation conditions.
1 -
I like how many people miss OP's main point.
As a Noed user, Noed is fine because I play low Tier Killer with no Gen slowdown, plus no camping/tunneling.
However, Noed isnt fine when Killer tunnel one out then down second survivor with Noed and camp him. Make it 2k no effort.
2 -
I like counterforce plus inner strength on solo. So NOED is never that much of a problem for me. If the killer did have to earn NOED as you suggest then not much would change only thing that would change is that the killer would tunnel instead of facecamp. Get the 4-5 hooks you suggested then camp you out till NOED is active then go on a rampage. NOED is designed as one of the only comeback perk in a killers arsenal. If im remembering correctly Survivors don't really earn a lot of their perks and almost no HEX perk is earned. I see no problem with NOED as a perk. I see no problem with keys, DH, DS UB, or anything like that. Run what you wanna run. In conclusion, It's not that bad if you know what you're doing. Being altruistic is good when with friends but as solo it just ain't worth it to begin with NOED or not.
0 -
If you can't get 6 hook stages by end game, then you don't have a leg to stand on. NOED shouldn't be designed to carry bad players, and this is an easy fix that works just fine. It's 6 hook stages, not even just 6 hooks. If you can't get that and you use noed, you're likely part of the problem
0 -
Exactly. So many people use noed as a crutch and they ruin 1 or 2 survivors games when they did absolutely nothing to deserve it besides equip the perk.
0 -
I'm a killer main, and I think this argument is stupid. Yeah just run around the map and do the equivalent of a 6th generator so the baby killer doesn't use an unhealthy crutch perk to camp someone out at End Game. No, just require 6 Hook States to activate it, pretty simple
1 -
I am quite terrible, and am surely part of the bad killer 'problem.'
Do you think that I do not deserve a second chance perk that can be removed to help me get some additional downs/points at the end of the game because I blew my first chance...thus facilitating the need for a second chance?
What about I run Rancor and mori the obsession without hooking them - Is that also carrying me?
3 -
Rancor works for 1 survivor. NOED works for all 4. And no, you don't deserve to be carried by a perk. No Way Out is a 2nd chance, Rancor is a 2nd chance. You don't deserve a free pass to kill people just because you aren't playing well. NOED is a huge problem, and requiring 6 Hook Stages easily solves its issues. If you can't get those then you should probably not be at that rank
0 -
On a more serious note, I usually go with Hunch over Counterforce in an Inner Strength Build, moreso because of the additional travel distance required by CF vs the additional area info that Hunch provides.
1
