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Apply 5% regression to generator kicks
Title. I know that I myself as well as many other people (hopefully) would feel less inclined to take perks like Ruin and Pop every game if basic generator kicks applied a 5% regression immediately.
Currently the Killer has to take 2 seconds to start regression a generator, which can be undone in less than half a second by Survivors. If the Killer were able to immediately regress a generator with every kick it would discourage tapping gens in chases and would make kicking a generator worthwhile in most cases, e.g. Survivors swarming a generator that is near completion. In this case with 5% regression on kick you would actually be able to stop the generator from being completed if it were near completion.
I play both sides almost equally and I think this would be a perfectly viable and balanced solution to current gen speeds and pressure issues, without being too overbearing. Thoughts?
Comments
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I honestly wish they buffed base kicks and then gutted ruin and pop. I think Surge and Eruption should be as strong as gen perks ever get.
Either way, I hate how much this game is balanced around the existence of gen perks.
I like your idea. I'd make it so that at base you get 1% plus 1% per new survivor hooked. So if you hook all 4 survivors you get the full 5% regression, but you have to earn it throughout the match. It'll incentivize hooking multiple people and you get stronger by your actions as you weaken the survivors.
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I like the idea of the 1 plus 1, however that sounds like a perk to me. For every killer I think 3% would be plenty regression to start with, and then check how that affects the game. It is nice to see the numbers rounded but 5% immediate regression may be a little too much to slide as a base action for all killers.
I am a survivor main that's been dipping my toes in the killer pond. From a survivors perspective, I think it would be great to add for the exact reason you mentioned @Hippie, to prevent gen tapping during chase. Sure if ruin was in your build it wouldnt matter too much if you kicked because ruin does the work on regression. But maybe that's exactly the reason why they haven't implemented it. It could make Ruin even stronger adding additional damage to the kick.
Other than Ruin, Pop wouldn't really be affected that much since youd still get the 25% regression after you hook someone, the only issue would be determining is Pop regresses 25% or 30%- assuming the base kick regresses the 5%. Would Pop add to that value or would it be considered separate
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I'm not against the idea, but this would mean Pop goes the Weasel applies 30% total suddenly, Kind of a big change for free.
There are ways to go about this, Lets change some addons and perks to give more immediate X % Progression penalty.
I think Perks like Surge, Eruption and Pop goes the Weasel are good.
Brutal Strength, Dead Man's Switch, Dragon's Grip, Fire Up, Gearhead, Oppression, Overcharge, Surveillance and Trail of Torment could all benefit from an extra 5(ish)% immediate Progression penalty. Make it stackable and see how builds develop.
My rationale is that there IS some gameplay happening as Survivor's rush to a gen to un-regress it. We dont want that gone. but I think making a line of perks that counterplay it is healthy and makes survivors need to keep an eye open to not help the killer instead.
I think the option that creates the most variety in gameplay is best for dbd.
If BHVR applies a default 5% immediate Progression penalty to kick, its gonna eliminate alot of gameplay and potentially make some perks worse too. That would suck.
I think like 1% would be good. atleast that would mean continued regression gameplay would be bad in the long run, but in the short term I really dislike the idea of throwing gameplay out the window.
Post edited by Emeal on0 -
About Pop, I was thinking that it could be nerfed to 20% instead of 25%. That way you would still get 25% total regression from a Pop kick but you wouldn't feel as pressured to take Pop since you could regress generators with a base kick. And I know that 5% seems like a lot but keep in mind that 5% of a generator is only 4 seconds of repair time (~2 seconds with two Survivors)!
On another note, I was also thinking about Tinkerer in regards to the 5% kick. It would probably be extremely overbearing and possibly game-breaking, given how powerful Tinkerer is to begin with. Maybe change Tinkerer to have a cooldown or just a cooldown per generator so it can't repeatedly activate on a generator?
Exactly, I feel pressured to take Ruin + Surveillance or Pop every game so I can actually make a game last for a decent amount of time when playing Pig and PH. And I like your idea! That would definitely keep it balanced in my opinion, incentivizing real gameplay to get the ball rolling and stop gens.
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Survivors repair at 1c/s and it takes 80 charges to complete, which means each second of repair is equal to 1.25% of the total progression.
If it takes the killer 2 seconds to kick, then tit-for-tat that should equate to 2.5% regression. Rounded up to 3% would be perfectly fine seeing as you have to commit to the kick animation to actually trigger regression, so accounting for player reaction times it's closer to 3 seconds anyway.
3% instant regression would be perfect. That would at least mean your action to kick the gen (minus any excessive travel time) is not wasted, even if a survivor jumps back on it immediately.
Pop should still cap out at 25%, not add to the base regression. Hell 25% might still be too much, it is a meta perk after all.
I like the idea of 1+1 for a perk though. Combined with this, it could be +1% base regression for each unique survivor hooked, so your kicks would end up with a permanent base regression of 7%. For a permanent Pop effect 7% seems reasonable. But would not stack with Pop because Pop should, as I mentioned, cap out at 25% no matter what.
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That sounds decent, but keep in mind that if Survivors are swarming a generator a Killer won't be able to keep it from being done with the regression being balanced around a single Survivor repairing the gen. At 3% regression, with 2 Survivors repairing the generator it would undo the Killer's 2 second kick in under 2 seconds!
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I think it should take 2 seconds of commitment to repairing a gen before any repairs go through, at least if it's already regressing.
So if the gen is regressing (because you kicked it and applied 3% instant regression) then they would have to repair it for 2 seconds before repairs began, which means it would take 3 seconds to apply 1c, 4 seconds to apply 2c, etc.
This would make gen tapping a risky move, because similarly to Pop, the killer could come right back, kick the gen again within those 3 seconds of repairs, and apply another 3% regression.
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3 gen situations would be impossible to solve for survivors, so some modification is needed.
E.g. it gives as much % as many gens are remaining until exit gates powered.
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This is also something I've suggested before.
5 gens = 5% instant regression... 1 gen remaining = 1% instant regression.
This would apply more pressure early on in the game, which is where you ideally want it. Whereas end-game kicking is usually a desperation move by the killer, and it wouldn't be fair to be too oppressive in a 3 gen situation or you'll end up with a stalemate and holding the game hostage.
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I'd rather have the 5% base kick or 1 c/s base regression. Then we can finally nerf / move on from this extremely stale ruin + undying + tinkerer or corrupt + pop + tinkerer meta. The fact that most killers literally cannot play the game without the above combinations isn't just boring or feels bad, it shouldn't have been an accepted design decision in the first place.
Automating regression via surge, eruption, I guess Oppression but that's a useless perk because of the 80 second cooldown should be a nice bonus, not a mandatory cost of entry to killer. Ruin (or in bursts via pop) regression meanwhile survivors can run all kinds of interesting builds (but of course most still run Exhaustion + DS + BT)
I'm honestly sick of not being allowed to the play the game unless I have Corrupt Pop Tinkerer or Ruin Undying Tinkerer. Unless you play this game for a living you're going to get absolutely stomped and bullied, teabagged and bullied in end game chat in the majority of your games, especially the later in the day/night it is. I want build diversity and for the base game (ie survivors with no perks vs killer with no perks) to at least function before we start throwing perks in the mix and balancing around all these stupid bandaids we're forced to use.
Post edited by Raihje on1
