NOED. Let's talk ya mains.
I don't get the hatred for NOED.
Just, y'know, do bones.
That's the one counter for it, and it isn't a hard one at that.
Comments
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or just leave
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I don't really have an issue with noed.
I can understand some hate just because of totem placements some maps you are lucky to find 1 totem because of how annoying they are placed
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My only issue with NOED is that other survivors don't cleanse totems. It's not hard to know where the spawn areas are.
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The only problem with noed is in case of camping.
Camping on it's own is fine cause you can just do gens.
Noed on it's own is fine cause you can just do bones.
It get's tricky when you suddenly have to bones and gens at the same time.
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It can be an issue in solo since most survivors are allergic to totems but otherwise I’m fine with it
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We're getting to 2022 in a couple months and the "do bones" catchphrase is still a thing? People RIGHTFULLY complain about a perk such as that one because it is broken in what it does, not in HOW it does it. Can't believe I still have to go through this, but here we are:
First and foremost, cleansing totems takes away 14 seconds each, assuming you didn't bring in Counterforce. Which is, you know, a perk slot for the chance of a (bad) player having NoeD. But that's fine, I guess. Whatever the case, you will still be using ample time ONLY for totems, which will be fatal to you and your teammates, if they are the usual incompetent randoms you can find out there. If you don't bring in that perk, however, and you don't play in a full SWF, you have no way of knowing how many totems have already been cleansed from someone other than yourself, which means more wasted time. You need to look for totems, cleanse them, try to survive AND hope your teammates do them as well. All of this leaving potential godly hidden spawns and perks like TotH aside. If you don't get to cleanse even a SINGLE dull totem, however, the killer gains a upper hand that he DID NOT deserve. He will now move faster (especially overkill on some already easy picks like Spirit and Billy) and instadown. Rewarding failure, that's what NoeD does. And unless you would like to see a perk that automatically spawns the hatch onto the last survivor, or another perk that gives survivors double the speed boost you get from Sprint Burst if the killer damages two gens, I don't see why we're still talking about the same things over and over and over again.
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Every second you are searching for Dull Totems, you are not on a Gen. And searching and cleansing Dull Totems does exactly nothing to win the game for you. In fact, it can even lose you the game, because while you do nothing but searching for Totems, your team might be dying and not having any pressure at all, because at least one person is running around doing "nothing".
Just for the chance that the Killer might have NOED. It is wasted time if he does not have it. And also wasted time if you dont complete all Generators (most likely because players are not efficient aka working on Gens).
Let alone, if you cleanse 1 Totem, you did exactly nothing to prevent NOED. Even if you cleansed 4 Totems, you did not prevent NOED, it is only prevented when you know that 5 Totems are cleansed. (And if 4 Totems are cleansed, you can be sure that the last Totem is the most hidden thing in the game...)
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Okay, but just do bones.
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Correct, this is literally the point of NOED. In high level play, the chase to gen speed ratio is heavily in favor of survivors. This game is balanced around the idea that survivors are scared of the big bad killer, are scared to do gens, sneak around, loot chests, and do totems. As soon as survivors realize they don't have to roleplay that, balance goes out the window. NOED exists as a way to FORCE survivors to do another objective besides slam generators as fast as possible.
Look at it this way, if you want, i can show you the math. But if a survivor does nothing but hold w, uses no pallets, no windows, no mindgames, no nothing, just pure simple shift + w, it will take the killer 47 seconds to down that survivor. Factor in the time it took to find them, pick them up, find a hook, walk to the hook, and hook them. You probably just took around 65-70 seconds. Generators take 80 seconds. You literally can't end chases fast enough. Now factor in pallets, and windows, and tons of second chance perks.
NOED exists as a threat so survivors need to take a pause on slamming those generators to look for totems and do them. If they don't, they run the risk of NOED. This is the nature of it existing. It is the killer version of DS or BT. Killers basically have to assume a survivor is running DS, or the one who just got unhooked has BT. The power of DS isn't in actually running the perk, it is just the fact that the perk exists. The same is true for NOED.
Survivors have 16 perks among them, all it takes is for 1 of you to dedicate a slot for finding totems and to have 1 of you prioritize doing those totems in the early to mid game. 1 survivor, not 4, just 1, 1 perk slot. You don't even need to dedicate a perk slot if you don't want, you can use a map. Hell, you could also run inner strength, so you can also get a free heal as well.
Point being.
JUST
DO
BONES
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Correct, read my post above. NOED by it's design is to exist as a threat to have survivors do something besides slam generators as hard as possible.
To be honest this whole thing is compounded by survivors thinking they have to escape to win or killers thinking they have to kill to win. You realize that dull totems give you objective points right? You can do 0 generators, all 5 totems, die, and still pip if you do decent in chases and help your teammates. Just as a killer can get a 4k and still depip if they camped the whole game.
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It's like some people forget Inner Strength exists and the best way to use the perk. When you spawn if there's a totem near the closest gen you hit the totem and then do the gen. Once you're hit you escape or get hooked and then go to a locker and heal. After you're healed you find the closest totem and do the bones so next time you're hit or hooked you can get another quick solo heal. If more than one person is running Inner Strength there's plenty of options to do the totems.
For a while now the devs have been saying "hey, there's this thing that survivors can/need to do called Totems" by constantly introducing more hexes, having Iri maps, Detective's Hunch, Counterforce, Inner Strength, a counter on Small Game, a text notification that the killer can see you at any totem with Undying, and now a perk for Pinhead that should literally be called Hex: Do Bones!
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In my opinion, NOED isn't the problem in most case. It's the fact that most killer who bring NOED use it in order to gain hooks or maybe even kills that they wouldn't have if not for this perk.
If i ever see a killer get 6 to 8 hooks throughout the game and has noed? I won't be mad, because had he brought a perk usefull for the early/mid game, maybe he would have a kill or 2 already and would have snowballed from that, preventing us from completing the generator. But we won't remember those player, because maybe 80% of noed user do so to overcommit to chases or ignore pressuring gens, you know them very well, it's those killer where you can smell the NOED incoming before the gens are even done.
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NOED.
You already know that you lost the game from the lobby.
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Or, you are bored by the usual stacked gen regression perks just like survivors, and want to play something spicy for the end game. I do so routinely with my Nemesis. Noed+BW+NWO allows me to just NOT CARE about gens to much. If they finish all gens, nice now the real fun begins. If I slaughter all before that, fine as well. It's only a bummer if the survs actually manage to prevent the activation. But in nearly 100 games playing and having my ruin prevented ONCE, I know that this nearly never happens.
In some games, when the survs really slam the gens, NOED surely carries me to several downs and kills. But this occurances are usually the games where it should be SO DAMN OBVIOUS to expect it in the end game. This are usually the most salty after game chats, but no one could ever explain to me why they did not do any precautions. Many seem to think if the just do all the gens, they earned their escape. No sir, with Noed and other end game perks, you get easier gens, but have to work for your actual escape. Deal with it.
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As a 50/50 player I don't care if someone brings NOED. When I play killer - I never use NOED though because I would personally feel scummy.
Then again I don't complain about any survivor or killer perk, item, or addon used.
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Fun fact: Trying to cleanse all 5 dull totems is literally one of the stupidest things anyone can do in DbD while still pretending to be helpful. Everyone encouraging survivors to "just do bones" is being extremely deceitul and probably doesn't even use NOED, because it's common knowledge just how much stronger wasting that much time is.
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Everyone discouraging you to do bones is clearly unaware of the situation. That's literally how you get rid of the perk. lmao it's no different than having to stop doing gens to do pig key searches.
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I have no problem with noed however just do bones isn't an argument it's all based on luck for example totem placement it could be completely hidden, ur team is useless or ur too busy with chases or u lack of progress with objective etc etc and sure u could run perks for it but must of ppl don't
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Look, another one who blatantly ignores the realistic situation of DbD and pretends that it's better to kill your entire team than leave a single person to die.
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So is it ok to stop doing gens and find a Pig key?
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If doing totems is killing your entire team. Your team is just bad.
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I seriously don't get why it's so hard to just add solo buffs to make totem counting base without a perk - like hex perks, dull totems now also have a visual and sound queue for example, so you know where a teammate is doing a totem. It changes nothing about the strong communicated SWF and changes everything about the weaker role.
Buff this by giving better totem spawns and maybe increasing cleansing time.
Because it is genuinely logistically a worse idea to cleanse dull totems in solo. It's better to remember the location of them and slam gens instead of cleansing one, because you cannot control how the other 3 mates will play.
"Just do bones" is fine in concept. It's fine when all you think about is SWF.
But this game is not competitive, and people play alone. Don't forget that.
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As I said before, it is no different to how killers waste time playing around extremely common perks that survivors may or may not have. If its okay for one side it's okay for the other.
One can easily argue that if the killer is so oppressive that you're unable to cleanse totems, that they deserve NoEd since they were able to pressure you with only three perks. If your team is dying and have no pressure, then perhaps it isn't a problem with NoEd, but rather, a problem with inadequate survivors.
You don't need to do all five totems, you can just wait for the gens to pop and look for the single lit totem or open the gate and leave. Holding M1 on a generator doesn't entitle any group of survivors for an easy endgame. Especially since it is so easy to complete 3 gens by the time the killer gets their first hook.
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You are going by the assumption that everyone plays in a full premade SWF, which is false. As a single player, I might have no concern into sacrificing one of the perks I'd rather use for something to counter a (noob) perk that the killer might be using. The thing is there should be a totem counter, at all times, that warns ALL of the survivors about the totems that are still uncleansed. And that should not be dependant on a perk that nobody will ever use, as BHVR did. But I guess survivors could just tell you the same, right? Why did DS need to be nerfed, when you can
JUST
EAT
IT
?
I was happy about the nerf, as someone who USED to play both roles (because I hardly play DbD anymore, as of now). Still, there's just that. If something has a "easy" solution, it doesn't meant that it has to remain as it is. Doesn't make it any less undeserved, any less cheap.
Anyway, this game is hardly balanced around anything, while being quite unbalanced on lots of thins, actually. I can't seriously, for the life of me, understand people that are so devoted to defending cheap things like Spirit, NoeD, SWF, broken perk combos. There's always an excuse, yet ver few people openly admit that they wouldn't be able to do a thing without said things, be it win against a full SWF, against 4 solos or 4 afk bots on easy mode.
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Exactly, doing all totems without even knowing if the killer has NOED or an hex perk. Just the cleansing time alone is 70 sec for all totem if you add the search and travel time even with a op map or dectective hunch means that you could have done than an entire gen or more by the time all totems gets done, in a balanced match it might be time that you can't afford.
By pig key i assume you are talking about the reverse bear trap, so correct me if i'm wrong.
The difference is, you stop doing gen and start searching for the key because you know you have the RBT and that sooner or later it will activate and kill you, but you don't know if the killer have NOED until it activate which could make you lose a lot of cleansing time for maybe nothing.
NOED is the same type of risk/reward that some killer are willing to do while slugging, trying for DS, if you are willing to take the risk, rush gens, if not, cleanse totem.
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You don't find escaping from a match one of the ways to win?
If you get sacrificed by a killer using NOED then you don't escape. How to you prevent the possibility of that from happening? You cleanse totems. So how did you come to the conclusion that it does nothing to help you escape?
As for what might or might not happen. You might not get all the generators done. Why should you try and repair them then since if you won't be escaping unless you use the hatch. Why should you open chests? They might not having anything useful in which case you just wasted time opening it. Then their are lockers and pallets. You don't know if they will be effective in helping you so why use them?
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You’re still not doing gens, and it’s functionally the same.
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When i read these NOED posts i just feel like some survivors want the killers to stand at the corner of a map wait for them to genrush which they do no matter what and never touch them. *oh but the bones take so long to do oh whatever will i do for those few seconds* It takes killer way longer to usually chase all 4 of you and hook you 3 times.
I'm always looking for totems as a survivor. Camping gens to me is just boring. Also totems give nicely points hex totems even more.
Survivors need to lose perks like dead hard and decisive strike then too, oh and don't forget the key *shrug*
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Flawed logic.
The way to escape as Survivor:
- Do 5 Generators
- Open the Exit Gates
And thats it. IF the Killer has NOED and I die because of it, it is whatever. But if I run around and do Totems (or just look for them to memorize their locations) I do nothing to fulfill the conditions to escape. I just waste time, I am basically a second Killer at this point.
And yes, it might not be possible to get all Gens done. This can happen if the Killer applies pressure. However, it is still what has to be done to escape. It is more likely to not get all Gens done if Survivors waste their time doing Totems.
Regarding chests - yes, those are a waste of time. I never said anything else, since the Toolbox-Nerf it is only really beneficial to open Chests if you REALLY need a Medkit or are REALLY hoping for a Key. Flashlights are meh, Toolboxes are useless (even the best Toolbox cannot compensate the time wasted for searching the Chest).
I will ignore the Lockers and Pallets. This is just a bait at this point.
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Most maps: Okay I spawned near this totem, so there's probably one over there, definitely one in that LT wall, one in the main building, etc...
Indoor maps: I'll just systematically search every single corner of every room for totems...
Not too much of a problem for SWFs, but for solo queue it is blatantly unfair.
Plus the Exposed status effect is not applied in a correct manner, ie. survivors are not notified that they are exposed until somebody gets hit, which is not how status effects are supposed to work. This is a hangover from the perk's earlier iterations and needs to be addressed.
Anybody parroting jUsT dO bOnEs is simply ignorant at this point.
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People really keep saying 'just do bones'. I can't emphasise how narrow minded this statement is. So before all the gens are powered you want me to find all of the totems and cleanse all of them? If I waste time doing that then all the gens might not even end up being done. I especially can't do that in solo queue because I can never guarantee my team are doing gens. I also wouldn't spend time finding totems in the trial because I like to imagine that a red rank killer would not play that perk.
Maps also depend on it. Midwich and Lerys has loads of totem spots, I know where majority of these spots are, but it's still very time consuming.
So if no one does totems, it still takes someone to get hit with noed for the survivors to realise the killer has noed. That one down can have a massive impact, the survivor might get camped, even worse, they might be hooked next to the totem, and if the killer is camping the survivor and the totem then nothing can be done other than leave the survivor to die, giving the killer and undeserved kill.
Additionally, if it's end game it takes time to find the totem, and on certain maps like swamp, or any indoor maps, it's unlikely that will happen unless someone has a map or detective's hunch.
And with noed, the issue is that it's so unrewarding, if a team plays super well and efficient, they might then end up losing or giving the killer a kill that they didn't deserve because they lost, and if a killer at red rank is getting constant value out of noed, then they don't belong at red rank.
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Old wore out topic. Beaten to death.
Next.
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You are misunderstanding the point, they are funtionally the same, but it's all there is to it. With the RBT, the time you spend searching the box is put so that you don't die from it at the end of the timer. In NOED case, you can spend the time to cleanse all totem just to discover that the killer didn't have NOED, you could, in a sense, say that all this time was "wasted".
Hypothetically, if the RBT got changed into: The timer starts after gens are done only if the killer put an new iridescent addon, i can assure you way less player would search for it immediatly, and just like NOED they would wait for it before searching.
What i'm want other to understand is that, in some cases thinking "just do bones" could be more harmfull than not doing any. But whatever we think, in the end it just come down to the player wanting, or not, to take a risk with facing NOED.
Also I'm talking about the pre-endgame when you don't know if NOED will be in play. If the gens are done and NOED is confirmed then there is no right answer, it will change with eachmatch situation.
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Imagine expecting 90% of solo teams to do totems when they let most people get to second stage and are allergic to gens.
Imagine a killer sucking so much against this sort of team that they get value out of NOED anyway.
Imagine SWF almost never having issues with this so ultimately this is just a tool to make solo queue even more miserable. But since we're whining about 'mains', bad killer 'mains' are simply too unsympathetic to understand this.
Screw NOED, probably one of the biggest reasons why matchmaking is so screwy. Bad killers carried against solo teams they somehow struggle against when they shouldn't getting value off that dumb perk.
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I just want it to be less of a solo stomper (yeah it also stomps full swfs on comms but they have the tools to coordinate breaking totems/keeping track of broken totems/someone bringing a perk for that purpose) they could've added the option for a totem counter on the HUD but decided to tie it to a perk instead, as that's the BHVR way.
I don't run noed but let's be honest. I like benefitting from its existence anyway, much in the same way as DS. I want it to stay mostly the same in terms of mechanics. I'd just make it so breaking two or more totems makes you immune to its effects. In that case solos who do their share don't get punished for their teammates' apathy. Only two survivors would be immune, max, you'd still have two exposed survivors, the speed boost, and the lack of warning that most exposed perks don't have.
Have you ever played solo, broken four totems and died to noed? It's not a great feeling to put it mildly. Bonus points if you're the only one sacrificed.
So either that change or the option of a non-perk totem counter and I'd be happy with it.
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I just want it to be less of a solo stomper (yeah it also stomps full swfs on comms but they have the tools to coordinate breaking totems/keeping track of broken totems/someone bringing a perk for that purpose) they could've added the option for a totem counter on the HUD but decided to tie it to a perk instead, as that's the BHVR way.
I don't run noed but let's be honest. I like benefitting from its existence anyway, much in the same way as DS. I want it to stay mostly the same in terms of mechanics. I'd just make it so breaking two or more totems makes you immune to its effects. In that case solos who do their share don't get punished for their teammates' apathy. Only two survivors would be immune, max, you'd still have two exposed survivors, the speed boost, and the lack of warning that most exposed perks don't have.
Have you ever played solo, broken four totems and died to noed? It's not a great feeling to put it mildly. Bonus points if you're the only one sacrificed.
So either that change or the option of a non-perk totem counter and I'd be happy with it.
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I think it just comes down to the balance of gens vs pips. Bones are BP and count towards objective, which is something I cannot blame someone for wanting to do. I'm guilty of sem-regularly bringing a pink map with retardant jelly and crystal bead with detective's hunch.
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As a solo q player, "just do bones" feels like a joke.
I almost never touch dull totems. Wanna know why?
My team mated will very likely be walking around a locker while I cleanse the totem. Considering I am the only one I can rely on, I have to do gens all the time and rescue survivors all the time since my team mates will usually let the hooked person die. If I get chased, even if I last for a minute it is super likely no gens will be done in that time.
If I stop to do bones, I don't do gens, which in solo q means death. If I do bones, I will at max do 3, while my team will be dancing around a pile of wood.
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That's how Hexes work. You don't know a Hex is in play until its effect is applied. Devour, NOED, Ruin, Lullaby, Retribution, Haunted, all of them don't reveal themselves until their criteria is met. If people knew Hexes were in play before they had any chance to do anything, they'd be even more useless.
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the only problem i have with NOED is that it punishes teams who did a lot of totems (but not all) and teams who didnt bother with them whatsoever all the same.
IMO NOED should be hitting much harder the more totems are left.
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I'm not saying that survivors should be notified that the killer has NOED before it activates.
When Haunted Grounds activates, survivors are instantly notified that they are Exposed. The same should also be true of NOED (and Devour Hope too, but this thread is specifically about NOED so I didn't mention it earlier).
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4K's with 2 Gens done.
"Oh boy, here I go losing again"
:(
LOL
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Searching for NOED is not doing nothing.
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To everyone who says Noed rewards faliure
My objective is to kill survivors not protect Generators. I'm still doing my objective the games not over till the Survivors are dead or have left. Gens are your objective killing Is my objective. It's not an interchangeable.
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Now that's not to say I don't think Noed is bullshit. Cause it honestly is. Nothing is more infuriating then the last Gen popping mid chase and you get smacked because the killer moves faster and Has an instadown.
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You failed to mention one of the conditions to escape and that is to survive. The steps necessary to do that fall on the survivor and not on the killer. That is why they are called survivors.
One of those steps may entail the need to cleanse totems. Those who are working on totems are not doing nothing. They are trying to survive so they can escape. The same can't be said of those who only work on generators. Gen rushers just want matches handed them on a silver platter. They want the prize without actually working for it.
From time to time I use NOED, No Way Out and Blood Warden on purpose and let the survivors complete the generators. I hook one or two of them and might even sacrifice one. Once the generators are done then I do what I can to sacrifice the rest of them. it's a great tactic to use against gen rushers and it pretty effective. I frequently end the match having sacrificed three survivors and many times all 4. If the totems are all cleansed and NOED doesn't activate frequently at least two escape.
Doing it in that manner doesn't make me a inexperienced killer. Devious sure however not inexperienced.
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It's anecdotal, but I play mostly solo queue - NOED has little to no impact on my escape rate.
If I see a totem when I'm repairing or en route to a gen, I'll do it.
If I bring my Detective's Hunch/Inner Strength build and I see a couple of totems left when the last gen pops, I'll check them if it's practical and/or someone goes down to NOED.
If I'm not running anything and can't find the totem after a cursory look (assuming the killer is camping), I'll leave - I don't care if all the other survivors bite it.
I escape a lot solo and usually pip (almost always safety if not) if I die.
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I hate the phrase "Do Bones" when your a solo player.
You don't have the power of clairvoyance to know if a survivor has done a totem.
You could do a totem hunting build but that also means your losing time on gens looking for them, which is extremely bad when your up against a mobile killer.
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If you "just do bones" and you let's say you can only find 4/5 of them, then all you did was make NoED stronger. Not even counting the time it takes to find & cleanse totems, which can be a detriment if you're playing alone and the killer is already applying pressure, there's not always as much time for it.
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The ones who ignore the Totems sitting right next to gens. Like walking past dirty dishes in the sink or something, like "Nah it's fine, I'll take care of it."
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