Killer is even less fun now
To start off. I think its a GREAT idea that people get matched with similar skill level people. The issue becomes when one side has a big advantage over the other and you put several of those people together. Gens can realistically get done within 3-5 mins, and you can do (uh oh bad word for little ears) all in chases because of certain tiles, dead hard, people using BT to bodyblock ect.. Now I know people will just say bad killer and such, but we are talking about a balance in fun as well. We all pay for the game, how is it fair for one side to get special treatment? The mmr system realistically only benefits the survivor side of things BECASE it is a 1v4 game. To add, most killers that they design cant even keep up in this game. Even the new pinhead. Now I like to play the way I want, but when it doesnt get me wins, I dont want to feel forced to play like EVERYONE else just to have a chance. I dont even like nurse, or spirit. Blight is okay.
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This new system actually makes playing survivor easier and more fun now, because they no longer have potato teammates that drag them down. Conversely, going against efficient and good survivors as any killer is miserable. You need to sweat and play almost perfectly to achieve a decent result unless you decide to tunnel or camp, which is also miserable because it takes away someone else's fun and makes you the target for salty survivors.
For example, I am a killer main, I play Pig, Bubba, Wraith & Bubba mainly. I'm fairly good at these killers, achieving 2-4k's often before SKBMM. Now? It's legitimately a sweat fest. I've never camped so hard before. And funnily enough, I switch to Spirit (who's like my 5th most played) and I'm still rolling the same type of good survivors.
All this change does is:
A) Make less people play killer
OR
B) Make people play Spirit/Nurse/Blight
You may argue that its fair for killer/survivors to be equally skilled. But my counterpoint is how its insanely less fun for one side and not the other. DBD is a casual game to have fun with, if you take that away, what's the incentive to playing killer?
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Equal skill would be great, if all the killers had equal combat ability. But they don't. So only the top 3 get played because the rest are all missing 1 thing or another thats vital to your ability to succeed.
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I’m not particularly enjoying the new grading. Not really having god matches either. It’s either potatoes or ppl way above my skill level.
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That just means the system is "functional" by giving you the statistical 50% win/loss ratio. According to the developers anyway. It's not all that different from a lot of other games with MMR. You'll stomp 2 games, then get stomped in 3 games. Then you'll stomp 3 games, one close match, and get stomped in 3 games. A fair and balanced match that feels that way is hard enough in more easily balanced games, with equal combatants (3v3, 6v6) but in a 1v4 game with countless variables? Goodluck.
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No. It shouldn’t be merciless one game and entity displeased the next. That is not balanced.
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I don't think thats really what they meant. A system that lets you steamroll a team, then get steamrolled the next match is not fun for anybody. The team the game lets you steamroll has absolutely no fun because they essentially have no chance. Then when YOU get steamrolled by the next team you get matched with, you have absolutely no fun because there was quite literally 0 chance you were gonna win that matchup. The system doesn't work at all, because BHVR does not have a solid grasp on the skill levels of its playerbase and the varying builds that can carry or kill you. The MMR system is incredibly flawed because of these things, it doesn't factor in enough and it promotes sweaty gameplay that causes constant steamrolls that nobody enjoys. Each lobby should contain varied skill players to create meaningful matches, not a 4 man of mediocre players then a 4 man of godlike ace mains. Same goes for killer, i shouldn't be getting matched against the hosehermanos_2007 the rank 20 trapper main when i have 2500+ hours in this game, and yet because the game wants to ocasionally give you "easy" matches it happens anyways.
This is not a healthy system.
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A SBMMS in a game with no high rank balance, seems like a smart idea to me.
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I believe that one thing is being able to do 1v4. Killers can be good in 1v1 but that leaves 3 others to do gens. Nurse can negate loops, Blight has map pressure because of speed, and spirit has mindgames. I dont play them except blight sometimes but I understand why people play them. Other killers can have good 1v1 like Doc, Nemesis, and even Clown if played well, but they cannot compete with an optimal 4 team. Pinhead had potential, but the fact his Chain Hunt ability can be negated with ease by survivors always knowing where the box is makes him closer to an M1 killer. His secondary chain power that we can shoot out is not only very hard to control, but the payoff is not worth it at all. Breaks way too easily. So, killers can be good in 1v1, but what we need is 1v4 to be taken into consideration.
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I would like to add that Nemesis has the potential to have good 1v4 IF we could manually place our zombies.
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The mmr is fine, the queues are not, they need to loosen it a bit.
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You need to let it run for more than a couple of days. It needs to average out. Until then you will have good games and bad games. Eventually, you should start seeing more consistent games. The top tier is where any major issues between survivors and killers will really show, and the differences between the different killers. Hopefully that will give the devs better data to work with, for balancing the game. Let it do its work.
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I agree in a perfect game we shouldn't have to use the current meta to stand a chance. If I have to play a specific way instead of what I like, I'm no longer having fun and tend to play something else. There are characters that I enjoy playing as but said characters often get destroyed by the top tier ones. In Overwatch for example I love playing as Sombra but she is terrible without a coordinated team working together. In DBD I love playing trapper, gf and PH. Though when I start facing all red swfs I switch to my trusty Nurse so I at least feel like a threat again.
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I just love it, not the newsystem since I didn't play the last few weeks so i have no experience with it and can't say anything but all these people flaming their hearts out after 2/3 DAYS since this system was turned on.
And that despite knowing that behaviour needs several WEEKS to react or even patch/balance everything.
This generation of "gamers" really has no patience anymore.
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It's because it isn't about killers and their powers, it is a systemic problem. The gen speed to chase time ratio is heavily favored for survivors. If survivors don't loop and just hold shift + w it takes 47 seconds to down them for both hits. Factor in the time it took to find them, pick them up, walk to a hook, and hook them, you easily spent 65+ seconds. Gens are 80 seconds, now you just lost 3 gens. Yeah, now someone has to go for a save and you chase 1 and another goes for a hook. But the time you spent to get that hook is negated in the same amount of time by a single survivor of a team of 4.
The problem is time efficiency when survivors play for gens is not good. The game is balanced around the idea that survivors should be scared of the big bad killer, and try and hide and be scared to do gens. They are supposed to look for totems and chests. The problem is the minute survivors stop roleplaying as a "survivor" the game falls apart.
The only reason those top 3 killers do well is because nurse and spirit can cut that chase speed down to 20 seconds or less if they are really good, so the time is much more favorable. Blight is only good because he can cross the entire map in less than 10 seconds too, so he can be at all places. No other killer can really manage any of this because their powers are too weak to end chases that fast.
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Sbmm is a good thing. Because it finally shows to everyone how unbalanced the game is.
Kill rates are dropping significantly. Now we only need to wait until the devs notice and do something about it.
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Behavior does not take weeks to do things. They take months, and for those we are lucky if they do a slight numbers tweak, or change 1 or 2 perks. The problems here are systemic, not something they will fix in weeks. Look at keys, they promised a rework for those a year ago at this point. Where is that at?
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Lol.. "this generation" Im still young true but when I started playing video games back when they were only on disks and couldn't be "patched" or changed as much, Developers HAD to put out a good product. So nice try buddy. Plus is wanting a good product for our earned money really being impatient... really
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You explained the situation PERFECTLY. When survivors stop playing as survivors, the whole concept becomes screwed. Thats not the survivors fault either. I expect people to play to win, but this game is still structured as a "Horror" game when no one is scared therefore no one plays like that
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How many years will take them to notice it?
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How many years will it take them to notice it and change something completely different that no one asked for?
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Theyll see the kill rates drop to 50% and be like "yeah we did à good job, the game is balanced!"
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Give it some time until you are at the Skill Level where you belong. Many Killers are currently boosted because they played against weak Survivors while gaining Rating Points for the SBMM. Now they face Survivors who are better than them, resulting in more losses.
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I expect some significant changes by late 2024 and I'm being optimistic here.
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I think the kill rates will drop even further.
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How do you know kill rates are dropping significantly? Source? Games have felt very balanced to me. Killers are not meant to 4K every game. You win some, you lose some.
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Correct. But people have been claiming kill rates of 75% and those are far from true. Now more than ever. That´s why i say the kill rates will drop across the board.
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Don't forget the incoming survivor totem perks with the next midchapter. Because killers need another objective right?
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Do we complain about stuff we know nothing about now?
Dude, dont forget the Killer Perk releasing in 3 Chapters. Really, they want to make Killer braindead, I swear!
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I hope that is not a real thing... if it is then that is EXTREMELY delusional of anyone to think killers need another objective.. an objective that would give survivors even more of an edge
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This game was never fun to begin with.
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What I noticed:
1. The 1. match with a killer that I rarely play (Demo, Trapper, Billy) are insanely difficult. I (as Iri VI) got placed with other former red ranks in these matches. The next match with these killers was OK and much more doable. So SBMM seems to be working here.
2. Matches average on 2k on my more often played Killers (Myers, Pig). There is hardly an odd one out. It's mostly 2ks. (I can't tell for my main Freddy yet since his pallets are bugged and I wait for them to fix it)
3. Even for the "balanced" 2k there is a lot of sweat involved. Both Myers and Pig are on the weaker side of killers. My normal off meta builds (which worked very well before) are struggling hard. I am considering putting a bunch of slow downs on again.... Which I don't like at all.
4. The SBMM does not consider items, perks or add-ons. An average survivor is carried by all the 2nd Chance perks and an insane medkit/key to a higher MMR, now imagine a high skilled survivor using these...... Same for killer with the classic combo (Undying, Ruin, Tinkerer, X) and the strongest add-ons.
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What more data do they need than when we make post after post about whats broken? And it still doesn't get fixed, they don't listen. Nemesis has had issues since launch, clear, and GLARING issues, they don't fix it and don't listen. Pinhead had glaring issues on PTB, things that could be abused, they didn't get changed. The twins, had and still do have issues with their kit, nothing changes. Tricksters kit has had and still does have problems be it add ons or otherwise, nothing truly changes. It took wraith LITERALLY YEARS to reach a viable level, despite people saying what his issues were over and over again. Freddy was able to be exploited FOR YEARS before they finally redid his kit. They don't listen, and they don't make changes fast enough to meet up with their next killer release time after time. By the time they actually fix all the sub Top 3 killers add ons and perks and overall power abilities there will be another 12+ killers released half assedly they'll have to fix yet again.
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I remember them saying they'd rework totems years ago....never really happened. They just changed which areas totems spawn in, and made the lighting janky enough so if you're not paying attention you might miss it. Which would work great, if it was actually hard to see. Even with killers reduced eyesight you can see across maps no problem.
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Posts are irrelevant. People are biased, numbers are not. Look at the completely different viewpoints between survivor mains and killer mains. Who should they trust? You are clearly a killer main, so your opinion is skewed in that direction, and is not objective. The same with survivor mains. One side says that something needs to be change, and the other side says that it is fine as it is. Who is right? Even for those of us that play both sides, we will have biases based on our own experiences and preferences, so even some of our opinion will be subjective, no matter how objective we try to be. Numbers are completely objective. The problem has been that their numbers were based off of faulty data, and that's what they were using to determine what they felt were the "truths". If the new system works properly, they should start seeing more accurate data, and see where the problems really lie, especially at the highest ranks. If certain killers can't compete at the same level as others, it should become obvious. If killers, in general, can't compete with survivors because the game mechanics favor survivors, it will show in the numbers.
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Thats another very good point. They go off of statistics and their own viewpoints rather then the people playing and paying their game. On one of the devs streams someone was talking about keys, and the dev said "I'd have to look at the statistics" Why when sooo many people give you the information you need. Not just about keys but about everything. Our input is more important than statistics.
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I would argue that finding survivors that actually outplay you and are "equally skilled" is like finding a unicorn. Plus that's hard to measure anyways because the way killer's and survivors play is completely different and outplaying different killers at different times and locations doesn't necessarily indicate that one's skill is lower or higher than the other in the first place.
You don't need to be skillful as survivor to give the killer a hard time, the game is balanced around survivors that don't know what they're doing. Which means if you're a survivor that knows what you're doing and you're very skillful on top of that, you will break the game.
This is my biggest gripe with MMR. It's not killers having 3 minute chases against survivors that just cannot be caught because they make right reads, they outplay them every time, etc. It's the game lasting 3 minutes regardless of how chases go, and survivors who barely look behind them, go to safe positions and stall with second chances while their team holds M1 on an inanimate object, while listening to spotify or watching youtube videos. And while this is happening, the killer is sweating trying to outplay each and every one of them consecutively, successfully, consistently and fast.
It's inherently unfair, and it didn't matter before because most random games would be a little bit more chill, they balanced out the horrible imbalance of the game. You could think long term in a match, create deadzones, go for fancy moves, make some mistakes (an unfairly small fraction of the mistakes survivors make), and you'd mostly be fine. Now it's this bullshit match, after match, after match, after match, after 5-10 minutes of matchmaking. I stopped playing, and I hope I don't play again until something changes.
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Nothing like waiting 10 minutes to get into a 5 minute game where the SWF just bullies you lol.
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This goes under the assumption that everybody who plays killer is going to downright lie in order to get stronger. Thats bullshit, everybody knows its bullshit. But you guys keep playing this "them vs us" thing falling into the bullshit over and over again. It isn't just killers noticing things are broken, survivors make the same posts, again...nothing changes. And it isn't like they never had any data to go off of. AT THE HIGHEST RANKS community members have noticed whats busted, and whats not for years....but they don't listen to our posts. They'd rather go look at an excel spread sheet than listen to people who've put thousands of hours in.
We have big long form discussions about this on and off the forums. Again, it took them ages to even acknowledge that the collision issue with freddy even existed. And even longer to re-do his kit....WHEN WE KNEW IT WAS POSSIBLE FROM DAY 1. "Hey when is wraith gonna get any love" I could pull up at least 100 of those posts from before his rework. The twins, again FROM ALL RANKS BOTH SURVIVOR AND KILLER knew her kit was gonna be trash and need fixing out of the gate. We sat there complaining about infinites as soon as it was found out you could exploit them. Took them years to fix that and then bandaid some BS with entity blockers....
Gen speeds getting wild at top ranks? Meh still an issue and still ignored.
Killers being skill capped instead of releasing to be viable at red ranks? Nope still ignored and killers still come out Trash tier and people inhale dubious amounts of copium to say they aren't but then you throw that same person into an all red match and they fold. "Oh damn I didn't know it was this break neck up here"
Survivors having perks and flashlights that either bug out or don't work? Oh here's BHVR's idea lets just make flashlights wobble...for what tho?
Killers still having add ons that literally do nothing beneficial? Crickets.
The nerfing of killers who can actually perform at red ranks instead of buffing the weak ones? Crickets.
Separating Queues and buffing solo survivor so that you're not required to be in an SWF to perform at red ranks? Crickets, again been complaining about SWF vs solo for years, not a damn thing changes and solo survivor is about the worst its ever been.
But yeah keep thinking posts are irrelevant, you'd be a good employee at BHVR since they don't pay attention to whats going on either. Better yet a job at Turtle Rock since they stayed tonedeaf so long they had to shut down Evolve. Gonna come back 3 months from now after they've "analyzed the data" to figure out "oh damn....our top players were right...woops"
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Wow! It's post like that that make them ignore feedback.
Nothing I said goes under any assumption that everyone that plays killer is going to lie. I have no idea how you got that from my post, but it makes my point. Your post was 100% killer focused, and so you attack my post simply because it was not.
I said both sides would have biased opinions that the devs could not just take at face value. And with both sides being at odds as to what is good and what needs fixing, that puts the devs in the middle having to choose who to believe, without proper data to support it.
None of that has anything to do with lying. Killers mains have one point of view that doesn't see the survivor side of things. Survivors mains have a point of view that does not see the killers' side of things. Then there are people that are just don't understand the game. All of them putting up skewed points of view without lying.
I already said that I played both sides, so I see both points of view. Most of the posts I have on these forums have pointed out that the game balance favors survivors, so I know what is going on. My point was that the devs clearly need to see the hard data to convince them of that fact. Their old data, apparently (according to them), did not show this, so all the talk in the world wasn't going to change their minds. Hopefully the new data they start getting will show them just how wrong they were, and then they will start balancing things properly, instead of a bunch of bandaid fixes that do little in solving the real problems.
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