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I genuinely don't understand why killers are playing like this
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I have seen many streamers like u say going camp tunnel. Most of the times they get 4 kills or 3 kills and a hatch. The only streamer i watch as killer is AgustinUnaplay. He intentionally refuses to camp tunnel (he has done sometimes when he has no more option, and I can understand it ). He plays high ranks and most of the times he wins with all kind of killers.
U don´t need tunnel to win with a Nurse, Spirit or Blight. You need to do it with Piggy, Trapper, etc.
Regarding the premades. When I play premade is with people I don´t know and without comms. I mean.....we can understand our game, and I can count on these guys are gonna try rescue me and vice versa. But we have no advantage there. What is more, matchmaking will consider SWF and make us face stronger killers (but we are not a coordinated team). I think many premades are like mine.
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I am not talking about top-tier Killers. I'm talking Killers like Clown, Nemesis, Legion, Demogorgon, etc.
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I'm sorry they are just doing their objective. Killers are actually straight up tired of sweating every single game and getting almost no reward. This is just a nice alternative to gameplay. The increase in camping/slugging/tunneling is direct consequence of poor balance. Do you think killers are having fun? Of course not. Both sides suffer because of poor balance. They are pushed to play in a boring way. So don't just say it is the facecampers that are strictly the problem. they are just playing the game like you.
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That's why my first step when I get annoyed is looking at the situation and see if I can see a logic behind it.
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No point arguing with someone that twists words to match their agenda.
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Haha yah throwing your words back at you isn't the same as twisting them.
You said that the devs changing the game because of camping was abuse.
You said the devs changing the game becuase of tunneling and gen rushing was OK
I simpy afford you the opportunity to explain your hypocrisy. I'm sure I'm missing something and your not just really upset at the prospect of losing the ability ti win by camping....right?
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The problem is mainly the game design.
When you play killer, after a hook, you will often have 2 options :
- Option 1 : leaving the hook, finding another survivor and chase this surv till down/hook, loosing 60 seconds to do so
- Option 2 : leaving the hook, finding another survivor, see how the chase is going, if you can't end it fast enough, go back on the save to get an easy hit on the savior and end your 2nd chase quickly
Often, pretty often, like really most of the time, the best option will be the 2nd one. If you choose the Option 1, it is like choosing deliberately to loose the trial.
Another exemple is if an injured survivor that has been unhooked like 40 seconds ago go past you, you also have two options : ignoring this survivor or take this chance and get a free P2 or P3 on this survivor. If you want to win, you will choose the 2nd option once again.
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Let's be real simple about this; 4 players against the killer is in the advantage of the survivors, the sooner the killer makes it a 3v1 the sooner they actually have any chance of winning. Pair that with all the perks you just listed for survivors that makes being a killer such a ballache of a chore no one in their sane mind wants to play around that meta every single time again and again so they minimize exposure to survivors having annoying advantages over them.
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I've noticed this too. 7/10 games have a camping killer since mmr. This of course, causes my mmr to drop, which gives me worse teammates, which means I've also been left to die on the hook more, which makes my mmr drop, and the cycle continues. It's literally not fun to play dbd anymore as a survivor, even if I can get a friend to join me. I want to play the game, not play hook simulator.
I'm being forced to play Killer, which means I'm having to wait 15 minutes or so in queue, which also isn't fun.
BHVR really needs to rework the way mmr works, especially on survivor side. Barely any survivors can reach high mmr and it's easy to tell why.
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Do you main killer. If you what do you say your average kill Rate is when you don't camp
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Yes. I usually do option 2. However, if the saved person deliberately abuses BT to take a protection hit for the rescuer I’ll tunnel and eliminate that rescued person. 100%. You can’t complain when you were injured and refused to run away like you should’ve.
I miss old BT. It actually encouraged killers to not camp unless they used Oblivious/Undetectable.
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Seems like they could fix camping instead that way notnonly is mmr better but no more camping which is even better
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Yeah the game is in a disgustingly frustrating state at the moment.
As a killer, if you do not tunnel/camp, you get destroyed 9/10, getting 0 - 1 kills as every survivor is gen rushing hard, bringing 4 items, putting chest offerings, playing surv friendly maps like haddonfield.
As a survivor, im getting tunnelled or seeing others being tunnelled every single game. Even when killers take franklins.
I think one problem is that nobody knows what "winning" is that BHVR have talked about. BHVR can say 2 hooks is a win for killer or high BP is a win for surv but the majority of Survs consider winning to be getting out, even if they only score 12k and escaping and another team member gets 25K and dies, the survivor considers that a win whereas the one who died is frustrated and considers it a loss.
For killer, if you dont get a 4k, a lot see it as a failure. Some dont and are happy with a 3K but that was rare even before this latest patch.
Im not even seeing chill games anymore. When someone would come into a match and be AFK, the killer would maybe down them but understand this persons afk so usually didnt hook. Now they get hooked and tunnelled, even if still afk when unhooked.
The game just feels far too sweaty at the moment on all sides. As a killer its boring to tunnel, but if you dont you get teabagged, flashlight spammed, genrushed and then salted/spoken to like crap post game. I mean im a fairly friendly person and pre SBMM would make lots of friends on steam with my style of play or cause i reward good/funny playstyles and could have a laugh post game. Now when i dont tunnel and get 0-1K, i will always get at least 1 surv every 2 games saying how much i suck, to delete the game, i cant play killer, im useless, i got destroyed, im garbage etc. Its just words but its not nice to see idiotic survs crow like this every game they survive in. Its just flat out toxcity and yet these same people will cry hardcore if you tunnel. So you may aswell tunnel....
As a survivor, its boring to be tunnelled or see someone else get tunnelled constantly.
Post edited by Konnor24 on5 -
Once again. Survivors raging cause i had to camp and tunnel to get the win.
Hospital map, 1 gen left at the end. 3rd game with the pinhead on my side.
3 of them have at least 2 meta perks. BT heal, one toolbox, one medkit.
They abused pallets/windows and infinite (i would have done the same, i don't blame them, it's the map design) and still, the unfairness is on my side. lol...
Oh and 2 of them used smurf accounts as they had 150 hrs on DbD but played like players with 1000 hours.
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Twisty twisty twitter land.
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Ever since they switched to this new system, honestly more than 95% of my games have been just really unfun and #########. The matchmaking was already so bad, how did they manage to make it even worse? Just feel like taking breaks from playing this more frequently, thanks to these killers. Toxic and casual players should have separate matchmaking or something.
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I think they made a mistake communicating on the SBMM. SBMM is a great thing but now that everyone know it exists, everyone is playing sweaty. Survivor mains in the first place, they all bring items. Before SBMM, it was rare to have many items. Now all 4 survivors take an item... It means a lot.
I play 50/50 and i never bring any item. But as a killer, if i see a squad full of items, i don't play fair, clearly not, i give them no mercy and idc.
If BHVR didn't say anything about SBMM, released it in silence, no one would know, no one would have changed the way they usually play and everything would be way better, with a better matchmaking.
Post edited by JohnWeak on4 -
Agree. Now people feels forced to play optimal and tryhard.
I personally don't. I hate those unfun, unfair games. I hate this metagame.
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The level of sweatness and toxicity in this game just amazes me. Everybody knows tunnel is the best strat in game as killer. If u don't do it, u have my respect and I'll play accordingly.
If survs have a match vs a killer that deliberately is evading tunnel, what they should do is show him the same courtessy (not unhooking in his face, slow down the gen rush, and be nice with him in game and in chat.
Idk why people don't understand that these killers make the most nice and enjoyable games.
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SBMM for killers doesnt stop swf squads from bullying the killer so a lot of killer resorted too this tactic too both lower their rank and so hopefully they can get one kill against people that they have no chance against
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I personally camp and tunnel because I can't really tell how the game is going to go. It could be a group of chill survivors or it could be a group of survivors who will get the gens done in around 5ish minutes. So, I'll play my best from the get go to slow down the game as much as possible and see how the survivors do as the game progresses. If the survivors clearly had no clue what to do and they've got between 3 to 5 gens left as I get to the last survivor, I'll generally give them hatch. If the survivors manage to get it to 1 gen and nearly finish it, I'll be happy I played the way I did since it meant I stood a chance against them. Overall, I'm playing the game to win and using the most effective strategies to do so regardless of how the other side feels about them.
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"Overall, I'm playing the game to win and using the most effective strategies to do so regardless of how the other side feels about them"
I think It´s sad to have this mentality on a multiplayer game. 99% of people play for fun, not coz they are pro players of this game. As killer, if u create more funny games, more people will enjoy the game and you´ll have more player base to play with. But thanks for your sincerity.
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maybe the game developers want you to buy it and then get off their expensive servers.
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Tunneling always has a reason. Also killers dont want matches where they get looped all game and games where they get genrushed. Also they can play how they want just like survivors can
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Three questions...
1) Do you believe that survivors are entitles to three hooks?
2) Do you believe that once you are unhooked, you should be guaranteed that the killer won't go after you for some amount of time?
3) Do you not see how survivors can (and would) abuse these two situations to the advantage of their team?
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1) Not always, but game design should encourage hook multiple times and survivors. Unfortunetely, most optimal strats actually are gen rush vs proxycamp tunnel with low looping (bad game design)
2) Game should encourage chases rathen than proxycamp tunnel. We all know how ez is tunnel 1 guy with wraith or spirit on a bad zone of the map. Game should encourage all people have interaction instead of bully 1 guy till death.
3) I see it.
** If devs don´t wanna do any modification to this totally unfun metagame they have created and that pisses off many people and creates toxicity in game, at least, they should create another GAME MODE. Oriented to casual fun games, that encourages interaction and which can be enjoyed for both sides.
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"Survivors are to blame for not punishing camping imo. They reward it and people will keep playing that way."
Impossible to do without a ping system for survivors to tell other survivors they are being facecamped. Camping does not have a vanilla counter that it desperately needs.
"Also camping/tunneling is sometimes neccessary and it's not done to provoke others or something like that. I know it can be frustrating tho."
Only when the game needs an absolute slowdown and perks arent going to give you a quick enough time. Even then, quite a lot of killers are capable of end-game slugging all 4 survivors and abusing any altruism that survivors might have to save their friends.
Saying "tunneling/camping is sometimes neccesary" in response to killers facecamping at 5 gens isnt exaclty an answer.
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It doesn't take rocket science to see that killer is camping and go back to do gens (even without kindred) instead of not doing anything behind some rock.
Also I said it is sometimes neccessary not camping at 5 gens neccessary. Making sure camping/tunneling is not seen as something evil in all situations.
Also even if killer is camping at 5 gens 3 people can escape easily by doing gens. Just hold m1 and leave. Simple.
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No problem, I understand the strategies are frustrating for the other side but it is hard to gauge how good survivors are at the start of the match, and I prefer playing the video game to win since that is generally what I consider the most fun, though I prefer close matches to see how much I have learned. I don't consider myself particularly good at the game, so I'm currently trying to learn the best way to consistently do well.
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Tunneling and Camping are not toxic. period. end of story.
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killers have always played like this, sbmm makes it more pronounced.
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Playing "fair" is never thanked by anyone... Survivors claim that the killer camped/tunneled... and complain about the killer perks... even what killer they played as (unless that's the reason survivors like to teabag in the exit gates so much)
And Killers claim Gen Rushing/Insta-saves... and complain about Survivors perks
It's a viscous cycle that won't end
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an important distinction: are you getting face-camped at the beginning of the match, or are you getting face-camped after you've already done all 5 gens without the killer getting a single hook? Because as a killer if I'm getting steamrolled by a SWF team I clearly shouldn't have been MMed with, then I'm gonna eek out that ONE sac any way I can get it.
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"It doesn't take rocket science to see that killer is camping and go back to do gens (even without kindred) instead of not doing anything behind some rock."
It doesnt take rocket science, you know what it does take?
- time to run to the hook
- time to get closer to the hook to see if the TR sound increases when you go to the hook.
- if there is no sound for a long time(due to undetectable or smaller TR), you need to actually get really close
- walk back all the way to the gen and hope your teammates do the same thing
- If your teammates dont, you have to find them and physically communicate to them to follow you and do gens, otherwise, you'll be soloing gens alone
Thats a lot of things that need to happen, a lot of time wasted that could be spend on a gen, which is why the argument "just do gens" is a ######### one. You cant communicate to your teammates to do the same. Hence, ping system.
"Also I said it is sometimes neccessary not camping at 5 gens neccessary. Making sure camping/tunneling is not seen as something evil in all situations."
It's never neccesary to camp at 5 gens tho. You're not playing in a tournament, you're not facing the top 0.1% of survivors.
"Also even if killer is camping at 5 gens 3 people can escape easily by doing gens. Just hold m1 and leave. Simple."
See the prior argument.
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You can say it louder, but not more clear. People that don´t understand this point I think is more a matter of will than abouth comprehension potential.
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SBMM created more camping and tunneling across all MMR skill levels? Who could've seen this coming? I'd say the only place you won't see it a lot is at the highest SBMM levels.
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To be honest all those people complaining are creating this cycle of sweaty players:
- If you complain as a survivor about sweaty campers/tunnelers - it means your MMR is sweaty high and it pairs you with sweaty killers
- If you complain as a killer about 'gen rushing' - it means also your MMR is sweaty high and the game pairs you with sweaty survivors
And both sides seem like they want to play sweaty, win everything, BUT never ever play against another sweaty player/team. Sorry, but if you climbed up so high with your MMR, it's kind of your fault.
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Not all people try to be toxic with map offerings. I usually bring one if I get terrible maps like Hawkins into RPD into Midwich into Hawkins again, and then I'm like, "okay... I want to go to Coldwind or MacMillian..." I never do the really bad maps like Red Forest, RPD, Haddonfield, etc.
But I get when people get upset by map offerings, because many times it isn't just to get off all the bad maps.
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And who is to blame for not doing gens? Survivors. Your teammates. I don't need to spoon feed em what needs to be done in situation like that.
Also you make it sound like gens are on another planet and running close to the hook and to some gen takes eternity. If you play a lot you already know where gens spawn even on indoor maps.
Even if kindred was basekit I bet people would still not be on gens. At least unreliable ones.
When I get decent teammates which is more often since sbmm, 2-3 people always escape against killers who camp heavily. I wonder why.
And I didn't said camping at 5 gens is neccessary. Again. Nor it is wise unless no one does gens lol.
Just because you agree with someone it doesn't mean it is a fact.
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I think people should just roll with what the game gives them, personally
Getting Cowshed or Rotten fields randomly sucks, but it happens
Getting Cowshed or Rotten fields because of an offering is infuriating.
That being said, If either side burns a more balanced realm, I won't complain. Macmillan for example, I love that realm.
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"And who is to blame for not doing gens? Survivors. Your teammates. I don't need to spoon feed em what needs to be done in situation like that."
Except, maybe some players run BT and are getting closer, maybe those players didnt see each other(why do you think people want kindred to be basekit?). Yknow, something that a ping system would fix.
"Also you make it sound like gens are on another planet and running close to the hook and to some gen takes eternity. If you play a lot you already know where gens spawn even on indoor maps."
Except that the killer could have hooked me on the opposite side of the map. It takes quite a lot of time to run around structures. Long enough to get me killed before the final gen is being worked on.
"Even if kindred was basekit I bet people would still not be on gens. At least unreliable ones."
But that amount would be negligable. At least all survivors would have the same info: 1. hooked survivor is being camped 2. other survivors are not on gens. 3. 1 other survivor is already going for the unhook, meaning they probably have BT.
"When I get decent teammates which is more often since sbmm, 2-3 people always escape against killers who camp heavily. I wonder why."
Just because it happens less often doesnt mean the problem is fixed. The problem is still in the game. Also, kinda useless statement without more detail. Maybe one of them had kindred and was playing together with someone else. Maybe all of them were far away enough that they didnt think they were the nearest survivor and decided to finish their gen instead. Maybe they were all thinking they werent the best survivor to go for the unhook due to lack of BT. Lots of reasons that could seem like the issue is solved, when in reality it was mere coincidence. And 2 people escaping against a camper is a bad thing, that means 3 survivors werent able to do 5 gens in 120 seconds+chase time(which, they should easily be capable of, the fastest possible generator fixing with 3 people is 135 seconds without perks or toolboxes, 122 if they have a key, the average chase time early game is 50 seconds and carrying to a hook is averagely 6-10 seconds). So if 3 people are not escaping against a heavy camper, survivors didnt recieve the info quick enough to combat camping.
So let me be clear:
Genrushing is the best strategy against a heavy camper, if 1-2 gens are at least halfway finished when you're downed by the killer and survivors decide to finish the gen, then find out very quickly you are being camped.
Any other scenario, and camping gets rewarded with more than 1 kill due to a lack of information(especially if that killer runs noed too, as there is no time to do all gens and all totems unless the killer doesnt camp).
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So survivors are not to blame for not using kindred when they need it so much? General non licensed perk that new players can get even more easily. It helps a lot but people still don't use it. Camping is so prevalent but they still don't use it. Before you say we shouldn't need perks to combat x then we shouldn't need ruin and pop either.
Also if survivors go down too fast during chases so gen rush is less effective (in situations where other teammates make mistakes too) you can't say that is not on them.
You can't devoid survivors of any responsibility when they can play more optimal if they wanted to.
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"So survivors are not to blame for not using kindred when they need it so much? General non licensed perk that new players can get even more easily. It helps a lot but people still don't use it. Camping is so prevalent but they still don't use it. Before you say we shouldn't need perks to combat x then we shouldn't need ruin and pop either."
You dont need pop or ruin as a killer, tournament play rarely has either and has killers still performing quite well. You do need kindred, solo surv is crippled without it.
"Also if survivors go down too fast during chases so gen rush is less effective (in situations where other teammates make mistakes too) you can't say that is not on them."
Well, if they go down too fast during the chase, camping shouldnt become more effective either. That's on the game. In fact, EVEN if you go down quick, if your teammates have the info that you're being camped, they can still rush gens quick enough.
"You can't devoid survivors of any responsibility when they can play more optimal if they wanted to."
Yes, I can, because survivors cannot communicate, hence they cannot play more optimal. You NEED to know what other survivors do to make the optimal choice. You literally cannot make the optimal decision if you dont know. At best, you can make a guess and hope it's the optimal thing to do. I just got out of a game, the optimal decision for each of the survivors was to finish their gen from their POV. They were all on gens on the opposite side of the match. But I was on my second hook and it would take 40 seconds for the nearest survivor to reach me, so one of them should have come for me, preferably the closest one. After not being unhooked for 40 seconds, the closest one realized the others might be further away, even though they shouldnt be, as the last time he saw them, they were in the middle of the map(they were chased to the outer bounds). I unneccesarily died, due to a lack of communication between survivors. That's devoiding survivors from responsibility, because from their own POV, they all made the optimal choice, but from the team POV, they all made the worst choice possible. My death snowballed a near 0k into a 4k, all due to a lack of communication.
Was my team bad? No, they were not. the killer wasnt even camping. You cannot say "just play more optimal" when the optimal play requires communication.
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Nerfing DS is the root cause. We still had camping and tunneling but not at this rate. Once they ner- I'm sorry reworked it the increased tunneling began it continued to increase tunneling and camping. They reverse the rework most of it will go away, but they won't they'll probably give us another bandaid solution or try giving killers a perk to try and incentivize them to not tunnel. Though it won't work people camp and tunnel even when they have killers that excel in chase and are great for the opposite of camping or tunneling. Its the only way some or a lot of them how to win because they can't create pressure due to lack of perks, skill, knowledge or any combinations of those. Unfortunately its probably just going to be the way this game is from now on. Unless everyone starts using DS again but nobody is going to.
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Doesn't work if its a camping leatherface or a ghost face that has you ready to hit exposed or a billy that can chainsaw you before the save or if the killer has save the best for last. Though outside of those sure.
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You can thank BHVR for having the game wildly unbalanced at high MMR. If you don't play like a jack ass then you will not get kills, period. If you want to win as killer you sweat your balls off or you lose.
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Blame the game. If you play nice as killer and play against semi-competent survivors you will get 1k. 1k likely means losing mmr.
So all the nice killers you want are in low/mid mmr matches.
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You have to define what "fun" is. I dabbled a lot in killer when I first played this game and there were only a few matches that were what I considered as fun. Most of the time, the survivors I went up against made it seem like their fun was to completely dominate me and prevent me from accomplishing anything. Even when I gave up, they would refuse to open the doors and leave. I'd go get something to eat or use the restroom and come back to see them all t-bagging and vault spamming.
A sad fact of this player base is that many people find it fun to put down their opponent as much as they can and when they don't get their way, they resort to insulting them. I don't blame killers for not taking it easy on survivors from the start of the match, it could easily come back and bit them in the ass, which happens more often than survivors on here want to admit.
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Many people can find funny on bad mannering the killer as you say. In every sport or game. In survs is more often coz is a 4 - 1 proportion and on the same team.
If everybody understood the importance of a healthy rivalry we'd have a more healthy community and more sportmanship.
And related to fun personally I like close games full of action. Not the actual meta of gen rush tunnel games. Sadly, if this is the meta is because it's the more effective way to play. But this metagame is not fun at all IMO. I can repair alone 3 gens and scape , or I can proxy camp 1 by 1 all survs as killer and "win" In both cases. But I wouldn't find fun on that, so I don't play those ways.
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Yup. Ever since the update, my games have been so pointless and boring. And I mean every. single. game.
It's the same thing every time. With 4-5 gens remaining the killer won't stray far from the hook, then full tunnel the unhooked survivor, ignoring others attempting to take hits and waiting out BT and DS. The very next game will be the same, with added slugging to end the game in just under 3 minutes. This has happened over and over and over against both obviously new players and tryhard rank 1's.
I'm aware this has always been a thing, a pretty common occurrence, but it was never THIS bad. My friends don't know what to do. We've done our best to stay positive and run perks to help avoid slugging and tunneling but nothing works. The concept of "Fun" doesn't exist in this game. We're basically just ready to drop the game until something changes in the far future.
Btw I'm not some entitled survivor who expects to escape every game. Escaping or dying =/= winning or losing to me personally. As long as there were fun chases, rescues, etc. I don't care what my outcome is. I don't care about rank. Very unfortunate that a majority of the players feel differently.
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