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Logic of Boon totems
I have to ask because maybe I didn't read something that explained why Boon perks are designed the way they are:
Who thought it was a good idea to create an unlimited, reusable Boon perk for Survivors and why?
I'd rather just deal with having to find the totems by chance without the sound queue while I hunt for Survivors and snuff it out, eliminating the perk entirely like Survivors do with Hex totems.
It almost screams unfairness and I can't wrap my head around why they would allow this. Up to 4 Survivors can apply these stackable Boon totems that cover large distances and if the Killer snuffs it out, all they have to do is reapply it. The biggest time waster is on the Killer who has to sacrifice a couple of seconds to remove it which stacks up heavily overtime.
Comments
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Probably main idea is to force players clean totems. Because baby survivors all over complain about hex perks and how they don't want to clean them. U can't just ignore mechanic and then complain about killers.
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So survivors can say to the killer
"Just do totems lol"
probably.
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But if you ignore the mechanic, you get punished. If you cleanse the totem, it's gone permanently. If the shoe was on the other foot, I'd keep my mouth shut. But it's not. The second I cleanse a totem and move on to go do a chase or patrol, a Survivor can be right back on it to reapply it.
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I can already hear some of the toxic ones saying that and the scenarios aren't even comparable lol.
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The thing is apparently survivor needed a carrot (boon benefits) first before paying real attention to totems since the sticks (hexes) weren't enough since the ruin change which made cleansing at everything but the high skilled survivor level mandatory.
But it was too much asked from mediocre and below survivor so they changed it and now survivor mostly ignore ruin or cleanse when they find it by chance.
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Btw when a survivor blesses a hex totem, does the hex perk effect persist or is it directly overwritten/cleansed?
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Behavior thought it was a good idea. You're welcome for the answer, I had to dig deep through years of research for that one.
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It's cleansed. And if you have perks that rely on activation mechanics such as plaything and NOED, they won't activate if there's no dull totems on the map. They won't overwrite Boon totems.
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I don’t have trust in BHVR anymore then the rest of you but a competent Dev team would have probably created an unlimited boon totem for the PTB too. Then they would monitor the amount of uses it got, the amount of snuffs and the over-all impact before deciding on a numerical “fair” number to give to survivors. Like the me of several years ago, who was still naïve to BHVR would argue that this was never meant to release as is, it was meant to be ‘play tested’ at the maximum level before giving it the appropriate nerf.
Because this is BHVR though I’m of course expecting the usual, “So we heard you didn’t like unlimited Boons, so we’ve decided to add more totems to every map.” Type of bullshit lol~
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its cleansed, but if it hounded ground then rffec of it after blessing aplly
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So they can in one step not only destroy the hex but also get there boon effect and the killer can't really destroy their boon perks?
Cool another hard survivor sided mechanic just like gen kicking vs tapping.
Damn glad that even when i played for BP, uninstalled the game and quit already and am just here for the forum bickering action.
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Probably because there isn't many other way to make it appealing.
Like with healing circle. How many ways do survivors have to heal themselves? Self care, inner strength, second wind, partially with solidarity or the best way... just a plain med kit. So now it has to compete with those, and the easiest (and the worst) is to make it flat out stupid.
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The thing not only are those boon perks in their current ptb iteration absurdly strong and have the stacking bug but the devs also indirectly nerfed all the already risky hex perks.
The spawns of hex perks were in 60% already aweful (60% because I guess that 3 of 5 spawns on each map are clearly visible or next to key structures/gens) and now with the potentially added carrot survivor might be actively going on the totem hunt with double the rewards: destroy a hex (previously/ATM only the stick) and now getting their boon effect (the future carrot).
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I feel like you will not like them spending 14sec on Gen either. So what they should do with that 14sec?
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Hide in a locker? Lockers are very comfortable and safe locations where survivors can be themselves, for just a little bit. 14 seconds? 1 minute? The entire match? I think you would be hard pressed to find a killer complaining about that!
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I'm hoping that BHVR are intending it to be a once-only use, but as it was the ptb they thought they'd just see what happens if it is reusable, just in case they're missing a trick.
It's unlikely and moreover them realising now that it would be a really awful decision. Then again, maybe they want to surpass the Hillbilly nerf in terms of most bizaar decision made by them!
Eitherway, I can't see there's any logic in pushing the Boon through as is. It's just too ridiculously powerful in its reusable state. It ought to be a once only, like a Hex. However, if it is once only, the power it offers is fine to stay. Also adds an elemeny of strategy as to when to use the Boon totem.
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Nah them being reusable is cool. What is not cool is that you can override Hex totems.
If that was not possible you could run Plaything (or future perks with a similar mechanic) to slowly drain the available totems from the Survivors. That would make for interesting gameplay, you want to hook everyone once as soon as possible to convert regular totems into unblessable Hex totems and Survivors want to prevent that.
That can create interesting situations where for example a Survivor who was already hooked once lets themselves be downed while the Killer is carrying someone who wasn't hooked before to stop another Plaything from popping up and thus removing a Boon target.
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This guy gets it. I have no clue why they decided to make one of the better recent perks such a troll pick. Like, why would I want to lead survivors straight to their boon spawns? And people who love Shaman builds? Useless. The counterplay to boons should be hexes. It makes no sense that boons counter hexes while offering benefits beyond what any hex was ever capable of.
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Its either they:
- Spend alot of time (especially if Killer has Hex). That they have to turn Hex to Dull before they turn Dull to Boon.
- Killer has choice to turn Boon to Dull, or destroy Boon as their wish
- Hex user will trump Boon and leave only 1 Dull for survivors to use.
Boon gives too many utilities
- 1 step turn Hex into Boon (destroy Hex and benefit survivors at the same time)
- Boon is re-useable & cancel to another Dull (pin point Dull location for teammate to cleanse later if there is Noed)
- 1 totem left and its Boon, Hex like Plaything & Noed cant trump over them. While also benefit survivor.
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I think maybe the reason the Boons can overwrite Hexes is that otherwise you could turn the Boon perks into basically empty perk slots.
Consider this: Plaything + any other Hex or 3 Hex perks + Haunted Grounds. This way you can turn every single totem into a Hex. If Boons were not able to overwrite Hexes then in those situations the Survivors are unable to use half their perks at all (if they run both Boons, or potentially all their perks if 2 more are added in the future). Plaything gives them a chance to use them early, but Haunted Grounds + 3 Hexes? Nothing you can do. Game starts, your Boons are unusable. Nothing you can do about it, and that's very unfun.
The simplest solution would be to just increase the number of totems. There are more possible spawns than totems, so this should be easy.
Or, the much cooler idea: Add a 6th totem to the basement. For example right in the middle of the hooks. This totem would never be able to become a Hex. Now you always have a known spot for your Bless totem that you can find easily. But because it's in the basement it's risky.
Bonus! This totem could be used for a Monstrous Shrine rework. Make it so that if the killer has Monstrous Shrine while the basement totem is unblessed the Killer gets a powerup. This totem would be blessable even without a Boon (the totem would glow blue but do nothing else, unless you have a Boon perk of course). Now you have this cool back and forth where the Survivors need to go into the basement to disable Monstrous Shrine and the killer wants to go there to disable the Bless to reactivate Monstrous Shrine. And it gives a target that is always available for Boons.
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How it's risky if u know where killer is? Like 9 out 10 games survivors go into basement just to pick up items. If something should be changed about totems and boons, it should be one-time use only as hexes. U place it, and if it gets destroyed it's upon u.
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To add busywork. Survivors want more things to do, Killers want them off the Gens, so bones get the spotlight.
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whoever design boontotems like this NEVER tried to get the red glyph challenges done as killer. especially low map pressure killer
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I imagine Boons function like they do because the effects aren't map wide, can't be defended, take time to be found and set up.
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I absolutely hate the fact that survivors can bless hex totems. If the devs don’t do anything about that, no one’s gonna use hex perks anymore.
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Well with Survivors losing keys BHVR has to give toxic squads a new to toy to make up for it, else BHVR risks losing that precious money
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Turn Boons into empty perk slots? Oh no! We sure wouldn't want valuable perks to become permanently disabled for the rest of the match when the other side deactivates them! /s
Increasing the amount of totems wouldn't work either, as then Boons could more easily overlap and provide those broken effects that are super boosted. Maybe that'll go in live patch but still bad. What they can do is have the Bless timer increase when turning a Hex into a Boon, or maybe have the Hex and Boon effects active at the same time, where the Killer and Survivor can permanently destroy the Totem to negate both effects.
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You know, I just realised something kind of ironic
So a lot of us complained about totem spots, about how easy they were to find for survivors on most maps so then we got the reworks which added in a ton of hard to find totems. Lery's being the prime example
Now survivors can use those annoying totem spots against the killer
Damn.
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Turn Boons into empty perk slots? Oh no! We sure wouldn't want valuable perks to become permanently disabled for the rest of the match when the other side deactivates them! /s
The thing is that with Hex totems you always get some use out of them. The only problem is that sometimes Survivors can destroy them before you even have a chance to reach it, even if you run straight towards it at the start of the match. But that's something that should be fixed and just because Hexes have this issue doesn't mean Boon perks should be like that too. And of course, you can disable Boon totems consistently as Killer - Haunted Grounds + 3 Hex Perks means you will never have to deal with Boon perks (even if that is a horrible build).
Increasing the amount of totems wouldn't work either, as then Boons could more easily overlap and provide those broken effects that are super boosted. Maybe that'll go in live patch but still bad.
This can be fixed by making it so the effects can't overlap.
What they can do is have the Bless timer increase when turning a Hex into a Boon, or maybe have the Hex and Boon effects active at the same time, where the Killer and Survivor can permanently destroy the Totem to negate both effects.
This is a cool idea, giving both sides the option of shutting down a perk. In this case I think the Boon should be disabled permanently though, to really give it this kind of "mutual destruction" flavor.
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Regarding your first point on possibly making Boon Perks worthless, that's the point. It's no different than Hex perks. You're taking a risk when you bring that perk into the game because at any point it can be removed, sometimes before you were even able to use it. If a Killer is running an all Hex build, his build is entirely in the hands of the Survivors. If they Survivors cleanse it or write over it, the Killer can't reimplement it unless he's running Undying (which requires ANOTHER perk slot just to give the original perk a second chance). This means he has NO perks to play with if all totems get cleansed. If he runs Plaything or NOED, those only activate when there's a Dull Totem available on the map. They don't overwrite Boon totems.
A survivor running Boon perks, can control where they want to set one up at any time, as often as they want. And if all 4 Survivors are running it, it stacks pretty quickly. If a Killer snuffs out their Boon Perk, they can reimplement it and they still get value from their perk. Killer's as I stated in the first paragraph, don't get that option. They can't break the totem.
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