General Discussions
General Discussions
Why are you nerfing wraith?
Comments
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It's ######### like this that's caused alot of people to stop playing, I've had a long run in this game I'm getting pretty close to hanging it up myself and not because of balance but because of all the unfulfilled promises they've made, it's turned into a grab as much cash as you can situation while they ignore the veteran players who got them to where they are. We've been telling the devs for years about secondary objectives, game modes, practice matches etc... And their response is. "we heard you and we're nerfing the Wraith" who was already a C tier killer to begin with I mean he's literally the dollar tree version of spirit, the devs couldn't be more out of touch with their community
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He’s just the flavor of the month. Once his nerf comes through and players stop playing him, bad survivors who refuse to acknowledge that the problem is them, will move on to the next killer to whine about. I suspect it’ll be Trapper since more will play him with his minor buffs.
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Possible....I fully expect Plague tbh.
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Finally.
It did... Freddy is a decent killer still. Still I would take old Freddy over new Wraith any day of the week.
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Αs he should. The uncloak speed boost was insane.
Nerf needed 100%.
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"Dollar tree version of spirit"
Wow. Nice. That is the most accurate description ever. He's extremely cheap and anyone no matter how bad can play him. Spirit takes skill.
They buffed Nurse for a reason guys. You people are not getting it you can't have something be both easy and strong that is what we call overpowered.
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It wasn't "insane". It only works on short and medium sized loops. Whatever.
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Absolutely! Even the devs know he needed some changes. Yes, really :)
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And for the same reasons Billy and Nurse had their basekit gutted.
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And... They are finally getting some well deserved nerfs soon! In the next update 🙂
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You know just saying stuff like this adds nothing to the conversation right?
The game should be fun for both sides, this isn't a war you're fighting. There's no point in spiting the other members of the forum.
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The person I responded to seemed like they didn't know about the nerfs, so I replied. No one is spitting on anyone or acting like it's a war, lol. I'm happy about the changes and I'm not gonna pretend I'm not.
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The way you're speaking is pretty much intentionally antagonizing others, but you do you I guess
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If people get upset because I say a killer needed some nerfs, then so be it. I think it's silly, but whatever.
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No no.
It sounded more like you are happy these people are upset.
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Barely scrapes by against good survivors, can't have that.
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I'm not happy people are upset. I'm happy about the nerfs because I despise going against them right now.
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I hate going against Trapper and Hag. Don't mean they need nerfed.
You sound ridiculous....Just my opinion no one needs to like it.
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This is what you get when you balance around casuals and many people + streamers supported that approach so you get what you wish for I guess
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Even the devs know he needed changes. I'm not being ridiculous. It's fine if you disagree with me.
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My guess is Wraith was over-performing in SBMMR.
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Wraith gets absolutely bodied in high MMR though. That's why you only see Nurse, Spirits, and Blights in high MMR, they're the only three killers that can compete in there.
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Well, when I say that. I bet the Developers are looking at how much skill is required to use a Killer compared to how "powerful" the killer is. Since Wraith is an extremely easy Killer to use, then maybe they decided he shouldn't be as "strong" as other high skill killers.
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Honestly, it’s probably nurse alone. Spirit is about to go the way of the dodo, and even though Blight is good, he has limitations that Nurse does not.
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I'd say most people aren't in high MMR. He is way too good for how easy he is to play. He just isn't fun to go against. The devs aren't nerfing him just because they feel like it.
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He's nowhere near as strong as those three though. Those three are able to counterloop tiles that Wraith cannot. I think he's decent enough for the low amount of skill he takes.
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I think any Killer that has high map mobility is automatically in the S-Tier, to be honest. But again, I'm making a guess on why I think the developers nerfed him.
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Because he is a wee bit op, taken from the patch notes. So they need to change that so people play only Nurse and Blight.
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Because he needed it. He was overpowered, his lunge was so ridiculous. Why is he constantly cloaking during chase? That should be for being stealthy, not for gaining a free down. His lunge still might be too much.
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This ain't it chief
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No that's not it because he only has good map mobility if you run windstorm add ons and even then it's not as fast as spirit, the problem is that people think they can outrun the lunge and get greedy with a pallet and they hand him a hit or a down but if you know when to drop pallets or when to hit a window on him he's wasting time by ringing the bell so much and he's not even hard to counter or predict in chase its a totally unnecessary nerf
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I think you are underestimating how much mobility adds to a killers "strength". There's only 6 killers out of 25 killers with a consistent map control and one of those is Wraith. Being able to go from one side of the map to the other in seconds cannot be understated.
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Most people who played Ghostface did so with these addons. Unless my math fails me, the recovery time now, with these addons, is longer than it was before.
In that case, he needs a buff somewhere else in his kit. He was mid tier at best prenerf.
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######### why? urgh god playing wraith will be even more terrible now
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Yea but his add ons are giving him the mobility and his base kit isn't as fast as you're making it out , I would tone down windstorm and all seeing blood but nerfing one of the worst killers basekit ? He's already a m1 killer that has a huge slowdown to ring the bell just to be able to get the fast lunge they're nerfing , this change is gonna make it to where you never see this killer at high ranks
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I'm not sure if I agree here. I'm not good at all, and even at my level survivors have figured out how to work around him.
These weren't mild nerfs to bring him inline at lower MMR either. The boost nerf makes him about as bad as he was before the buffs, if not worse.
ASB needed a nerf, sure. And maybe a small nerf to his boost. Start at like 10% and see what happens. A 20% nerf feels like BHVR saying 'we really don't want Wraith to be better than a 'C' or 'D' tier killer'.
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It comes over as gloating.
'Nyah nyah nyah, your favorite killer is trash now and that makes me happy'.
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How he still moves at 150% speed
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I'm not necessarily talking about add-ons. Wraith is still faster with no add-ons but with add-ons, which are yellow, green and purple. There's so many add-ons that give you speed, that you are pretty much going to be running a movement add-on at all times without worrying about running out of them.
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The thing is... He's not trash. Take it however you want. The only thing I said is I'm happy they got nerfed because of how annoying and unfun they are to face. If that hurts someones feelings, then so be it.
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lmfao im lucky if i get 1k nowadays. so please refrain from saying "you are only complaining because you want a 4k". Stop it.
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So Ghost Face was not nerfed. His add-ons were.
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We are splitting hairs here.
I'm saying that most GF players ran those addons anyway, much as the old Wraith would run specific addons baseline.
Taking the nerf into account, a GF running those addons (as is standard) is weaker than before. It only amounts to a buff if you don't run those addons.
What would have made sense, would be to make GF's cooldown equal to the old addon amount, and then rework those addons.
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OK, please is there a glossery of terms somewhere? What is nerfed? Like a nerf football?
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When I think of killers and their balancing, I generally separate the killer's power from the add-ons. The reason I do that is, regardless to popular belief with some killers, you are not forced to run certain add-ons or any add-ons for that matter. So to me, I could care less if 100% of Ghost Face players used that add-on combo, Ghost Face was not nerfed, his add-ons were. It doesn't mean that if you ran those two add-ons it won't feel like a nerf, but like you said and how I'm thinking, it's only a nerf if you run those two add-ons. However, Ghost Face himself was not nerfed.
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Wraith is getting the Spirit treatment. People don't want to change their playstyle so instead they complained and complained until a nerf (over nerf) happened.
I agree with some of the complaints, mainly about his add-ons, but these aren't the changes I would have made.
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The average player is quite low skill from what I have seen over the years. They complain about weak killers that competent survivor players have no issue with all the time. Why is anyone surprised that Wraith is getting nerfed? He has been the main focus of survivor main complaining since Freddy was nerfed.
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It's more that there are a LOT of tiles where his uncloaking would be a guaranteed hit, because survivors either needed to vault or fake a vault, but Wraith's uncloaking time either guaranteed the hit mid-vault if they vaulted a bit late, or guaranteed the hit post-vault by using his speed to go to the other side of the wall. Faking a vault doesnt really work in that scenario, and also leads to a hit.
Guaranteed hits are not fun to face because survivor input doesnt matter. At that point, you could just replace survivors with AI, have practically the same game without any players getting bored.
They either had to give maps a killer seed where T&L walls dont spawn as often(which was the main location where you would have guaranteed hits, especially if the killer ran all seeing), or adjust Wraith to compensate for such situations. Since the devs refuse to make map seeds a thing, Wraith was altered.
It's not always about "people dont know how to run X killer" because people do. But if the game doesnt offer resources you can use against that killer, there isnt much you can do.
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Same reason why they nerfed Freddy. What the devs consider OP has nothing to do with the killer's actual strength. If they felt killers needed nerfs, and were nerfing the theoretically strongest killers, many killers would have been nerfed before Freddy an Wraith. It's clear as day they nerf killers that have something that have potent reward for input on the easier side. That, and like Freddy, Wraith started to amass a hate-mob (a smaller one, but it was there).
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We are bickering over semantics at this point. Whether or not it's the killer's base kit or the defacto mandatory addons that were nerfed isn't relevant. What I'm saying is that, when played as most moderately skilled GF's usually do, the changes amount to a nerf to the killer overall.
Eh. The average player is averagely skilled. That's...sort of what 'average' means. But yes, if Wraith was too difficult for intermediate and beginner players to deal with, he definitely needed some help in his basekit to prevent him from being absolute doo-doo in higher skill matches, where he was already very mediocre.
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