SBMMR is NOT fun, but its fair
I went against three Ruin+Undying killers in a row, sweaty af too. But i understand why it was added, it puts you against people of your equal skill wall (or atleast close to it). But think of it this way, was it fair for low tier players to have no chance of winning? i just think that people are pretty selfish when it comes to SBMMR and only think about themselves.Its not perfect, but its good enough for what we have.
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It's not perfect, but it's also provably not fair. To quote GoodBoyKKaru on summarizing survivor MMR:
"Say that all survivors will incur a 400 point penalty for losing. Survivor one, who dies first, will incur the full 400 point penalty. Survivor two, dying next, will incur a lesser penalty- let's say 10% less, for a deduction of 360 points. Survivor 3, who died next, would then recieve 25% less, for a deduction of 300 points, and poor survivor 4 dying last would recieve a penalty of 50% less for minus 200 points. I hope this can help if it wasn't 100% clear. Once more these numbers are not official, and the adjustments will be proportional to how much the chances shift of if the survivors will/won't escape."
Hiding in a corner and doing nothing for a match means your MMR is impacted less by a loss versus someone who did all 5 gens, gets 8 unhooks, and escapes a ten-minute chase but still dies before you in that same match.
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Even if the MMR worked perfectly, it would still be awful because of the power imbalance of SWF -> Killer -> Solo Queue. So in top MMR Solo Queue survivors will suffer against top killers and top killers will suffer against SWF groups. And of course SWF would just have too easy matches unless the killer is Nurse or Spirit, and even then they would still have an advantage. As long as the game isn't balanced for all groups, and it will likely never be, I don't think MMR is a good idea.
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Is this another Tapp main I see!!!!
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i main both tapp and adam so yes!!
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I wouldn't call sbmm fair in the slightest. The old pip system was better than this.
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I wasnt accounting for SWF when i made this post, but your right because swf is a serious problem.
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Nice!!! Love to see it. Me as well! Admittedly with a bit of Cheetah Pig Meg recently
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Not yall filling my notis
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Ah yes, the system where people with 7K hours get matched with people who just installed the game two days ago.
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Too bad I care more about the game being fun.
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At least the blendette who hid all game didnt rank up.
Even with the new system people with 7k hours still get matched with new players
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then the blendette would get matched with better people with current mmr, forcing them to stop hiding and do gens
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I don't think it's that great on paper, but my experience has been so much better than ranks so i don't really care about the specifics.
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Now i know you dont have a clue what your talking about. The blendette never got better as they faced better killers. They hid all game and looked for hatch
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same. now i actually get matched with good teamates (mostly) and good killers (also mostly)
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that is such a unrealistic scenario, especially since killer will 9/10 find hatch first.
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The current system has me - a person who was playing in beta - being matched against people with less than 20 hours of play experience.
When MMR is based purely on escapes/kills, it creates lopsided games by its very nature - all it takes is even a short lucky streak or being boosted/carried for a new player to be set up against a veteran.
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I'll never understand why people want a videogame to be "fair". You want things to be fair in real life, in a videogame you just want to have fun.
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It's not fair and it's not even working. I've escaped 3 matches in a row and have pipped in all of them aswell, i'm SUPPOSEDLY progressing in MMR cause i'm escaping and i'm definetly progressing in Grades, i'm now Iridescent 2 but guess what happened in my 4th Survivor match today? i get paired up with complete new Survivors without even the 4 perk slots against a Bubba...i think it's unnecessary to tell you how the match ended. I was the only person who could even make a loop but innevitably i go down, i'll run out of loops vs Bubba's saw.
At this point i believe there isn't an MMR system, it's the same old Rank system matchmaking except Grades do not represent ranks thus matchamking is HIDDEN AND perceived as SBMM when it's a lie. They've said it themselves just yesterday, making a system can judge multiple factors is impossible for them so how is MMR any different than the old rank system? Maybe It's not. All they did was redesign Ranks into Grades and kept the exact same matchmaking. This explains the queue times for Killers being just as horrible as they were under Ranked Matchmaking. And explains the unpredictability of the matches.
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how about you show some high mmr killer gameplay where thats actually happening cos you keep acting like that scenario is real but its not.
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if a game is fair, it increases the fun for both sides.
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once again, SHOW PROOF that this is happening.
these unrealistic scenarios make no sense, atleast show proof of what you are saying is happening
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Not true for my case at least, i had more fun when it was "unfair"
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fair enough
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If it is not fun, then it has already failed.
As expected.
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You insisting that it's unrealistic, or pretending it's not real: guess what, your experiences and opinions don't change the reality of another's experience. The proof in in how the devs themselves say this works, as summarized in my first reply based on the recent Q&A, as well as the experienced reported by most players.
All MMR does is account for kills and escapes, sans hatch. That is all it has done since implementation. MMR has nothing to do with skill, and does not affect SoloQ or SWF placement based on anything else.
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im speaking from a balance perspective. mmr obviously isnt fun
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i literally said post what your saying is happening, so guess what, until u do that, i wont believe u. mmr is fine for me
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I can't believe the old pip system was better. At least that allowed players who contributed to matches to rank up. Not sit in a corner do nothing and escape and have your MMR go up for it just because you lived.
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See thats where your wrong, sometimes you would depip due to the rest of your team being potatoes. And whats so good about the old system anyways? What do you like about it?
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Your approval/belief isn't a required part of another's experience, kiddo. Go watch the Q&A. Go read Peanit's recent replies describing killer MMR. Do some legwork for yourself.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
you keep avoiding my point tho, atleast prove what your saying is happening or i cant believe you in the first place
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
That was annoying but more fair than the current system. You can repair multiple gens, run the killer for ages, do several hooks saves, die on first hook and still pip under the old system. It recognized your skilled contributions to a match. Under MMR you could do all that and get nothing towards your MMR just because you died.
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MMR making matches fair makes the matches more fun for all survivors but less fun for higher level killers. Lower and mid level killers, the MMR makes the game better for.
Higher level killers, which are the majority of forum goers, hate the new MMR because it places them in fairer matches compared to the previous matchmaking system. The previous matchmaking system threw "skittle" players against killers, so you would randomly get easy games. Now every survivor is about equal and that sucks for higher level killers who were use to the easy games.
Over all, the MMR is more fun and more fair for a larger portion of players than the previous matchmaking system. If you look at most posts, people are generally saying MMR is better, even here, on the heavily higher level Killer sided forums.
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see this guy actually has a point, other take notes
anyway ur actually right, that one of the major flaws of the mmr system.
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exactly, another mmr flaw. is good for survivors, but certain killers are too weak to deal with high mmr survivors. a good fix for this would be to make a max mmr for every individual killer.
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Actually its neither. With the discovery that its LITERALLY just "did you survive? y/n" being the main determination of MMR, its neither fair nor balanced. Good survivors who enjoy the chase mechanic and want to interact with the killer are actively punished due to having lower survival rates than the "do one gen and hide" survivor. Will the skill level EVENTUALLY flex out? Maybe. But if someone wins 51% of their games surviving and doing one gen and hiding. We'd all say they are bad at the game and dont contribute, BHVR would say they won and their MMR goes up.
Same goes for killers. The Myers who got 8 hooks and one kill after a long hard fought game, LOSES more MMR than the bubba who ran noed and camped the basement with 2 survivors in it and only got 3 hooks total. This will generally balance out better than the survivors will balance out, but still, its neither fair nor balanced.
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Your belief does not matter. I'm replying with experience, a summary of how survivor MMR functions which was posted elsewhere in the forums in a Q&A response post*, and a thruline for Peanits describing killer MMR here as well* - not for your approval, but as an accounting of events.
My posting a picture of other people's account playtime would be inappropriate at best, so your request is dead in the water - nevermind the theoretical possibility of being an aberrant data point, the fact that it's a data point is an issue with the system.
The soft cap for MMR, meaning that although MMR can always go up it'll be rounded down for matchmaking purposes**, is an issue with the system.
The fact that a 'win streak' can carry both killers and survivors into waters they aren't ready for is an issue with the system.
I'm not knocking some people having a good time with the system, and not trying to invalidate their fun. I'm saying the system isn't perfect, isn't fair, and needs adjustment based on my experience, the experiences of others, and released info from the devs. Whether you believe any of it is on you.
*neither of which should be linked to at the request of those involved
**again, from the Q&A stream
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Actually, the MMR isn't based on where a survivor escapes or is killed, it is based on whether the entire survivor team is above or below the 2 kills mark. So a survivor that lead a killer on a chase for 5 gens and is killed, is rewarded because the other 3 survivors escaped.
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You do realize a Dev said its literally just escape/not escape yes?
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then SHOW PROOF of that experience. and it is fair, people are just mad that they cant clap baby survivors anymore
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Fair when the killers are forced to play unfairly to get a win (camp and tunnel) ? Fair when gens are flying in less than 5 minutes at high MMR ?
Well i don't think it's fair.
When during the 1st chase (If all 4 survivors are good), you loose 3 gens and during the 2nd chase you loose another gen + the last gen is at 50%, it's not fair. Getting 6 hooks while all gens are done and both doors at 99% it's not fair.
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He like the fact he can lower his rank to bully less skilled players, that's why everyone arguing against MMR want it to be removed.
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Not sure why you're quoting me when I'm also saying MMR isn't fair in the slightest.
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Exacly lol.
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You all need to stop thinking of MMR as a reward, and stop caring about other players MMR.
If some other player is playing cheap to win, like an immersed Claudette urban evasioning around the map, then that's not a player who wants high MMR. But they're gonna get high MMR until they hit killers who can deal with that.
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exactly.
and then they wont prove that stuff like tha is actually happening
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Most of us arguing against MMR are arguing against it because no one wanted it and it doesnt work. This is a casual game with casual balance that is made competitive by certain people. Myself included. You cannot introduce an MMR system into a game that has no inherent win or loss. You simply cannot by definition. ESPECIALLY given that it is asymmetrical and RNG. This is a CASUAL game, and there is no game in the history of gaming that introduced an MMR system onto a casual game that worked.
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Again, why do you want to increase your MMR? It gives you nothing.
All it does, it match you with players who are as good at escaping as you are.
MMR is not something anyone needs to worry about now that it's completely disconnected from any other systems, except if you believe it's not working for you.
It's not something you need to increase, unless you're specifically looking for a challenge. But from what I see people complain about MMR because they want easy games, not harder ones.
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It's not a reward, but it's also not a competent matchmaking strategy as things stand - with the Blendette example, it means the person depriving their team of assistance can indirectly tank the other survivor's MMR, and the killer can have their own MMR artificially inflated too easily.
I had fairer games before MMR, with better placement for teammmates - I also lost more, but felt more rewarded. I'm expressing frustration not because my games got harder, but because they got easier to the detriment of my enjoyment in the game, and because I'm a game designer myself (though in a different field) who is appalled by the system that's been put in place.
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