SBMMR is NOT fun, but its fair
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Because I want to match with players that are my skill level? Either it being my opponent or my teammates?
Honestly that explains a lot why my teammates has been going downhill lately, because it's all based on ESCAPES!
It restricts you to focus purely on escaping, it doesn't reward you for the SEVERAL OTHER things you could do in the game. You could be running an altruism build and get yourself killed but three people escape.
But noooooo, you are punished for it because you died and the other three didn't.
It's not SKILL BASED.
I want to play with players I can have fun with, I don't want to stomp, and I don't want to be stomped. If my matches are potentially being put into a much more coordinated team I am not prepared for with my killer builds, then I will not want to play those games.
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My response is; So?
That's one game.
MMR isn't based on one game, it's a pattern, it's track record over several games.
Your MMR is only going to move if you are consistently dying or escaping more than the other. If you are consistently escaping more often than not, then you should be matched with killers who are better equipped to stop you escaping. Regardless of how you're escaping.
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Let me rephrase it for you.
If 50% of your matches are not fun, would you keep playing the game?
No one is asking to escape every game. No one is asking to get a 4k every game.
Everyone is asking for the same thing.
We want the games to be fair AND fun. We don't want to sweat or feel the need to sweat. We don't want to stomp players nor get stomped. We want to play games where we can bring whatever perks we want and the game will pit us against players who also plays like we do.
We don't want to run meta perks because the meta is stale and boring. We want to ######### around in games but we continuously get punished for it either by winning OR losing. If you're winning, you might get an opponent who will not give a ######### if you had fun or not. If you're losing, you might get teammates who continuously screws up the easiest skill checks and loops as well as get bored from constant stomp fests.
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How is it not skill based?
Once again, it's not individual games you need to worry about, it's the pattern.
If you are consistently escaping all of your games, tell me how that's not skill based? You are obviously better skilled than the level of players you're getting matched with.
Survivors can get lucky and escape when playing badly, but that's not going to result in a consistent upwards trend in their MMR.
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80% of my matches were not fun under the old system.
I was a rank 6 killer, which meant I was paired with rank 1 seal team teabag every damn game. Because the matchmaking just grabbed anyone within 6 ranks, and rank 1s can only look down.
Now 80% of my games are fair (not too easy, not too hard). MMR is an all-round success.
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And I have yet to not consistently 'win' by the kill/escape system - with the caveat that I can acknowledge that my survivor side may flag behind due to being a killer main who consciously tries to play both sides. The consistent thruline for escapes when I'm playing killer is hatches - which according to Peanits is a null MMR change, while 2 or more people typically escape when I'm playing survivor, with myself usually trying to be the last one out so I can taxi.
I'm just doing the same routine I did with the pip system: 2 gens, 2 totems, 2 unhooks vs. patrol counterclockwise, try for two hooks per gen if possible. My personal gameplay isn't affected. What has changed is the quality of teammates and opponents, which has only gone downhill despite my supposed MMR interaction being a positive trend.
Frankly, no. It's not one game. It's a pattern spanning what, a full month now, with hundreds of hours per week?
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If we're going by ranks, I was consistently Rank 1.
But ranks never mattered. The majority of players were in the Top 5 ranks in the game. Rank 1 though at the very least were based on the Emblem System. A system that (while not perfect) judged you based on your actions in the game.
Something the new matchmaking system is REALLY lacking. It was more skillbased than the current skillbased matchmaking.
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Ok? Wanna cookie? Lol
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lets stop arguing, were trying to have a discussion thats clearly going nowhere
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Then why is the new system working better?
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YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!
Listen, I used to think the MMR was working. But in recent weeks I have been forced into games with ######### teammates and sweaty killers. I didn't understand what was going on. But the moment Patrick opened his mouth in the QnA and told us how MMR worked, I felt betrayed.
THIS WAS HOW THEY TOLD US IT WOULD WORK!
I really want an MMR system in DBD, but this ain't it chief.
I am not knocking you for your games being better under MMR, but this system is going to hurt a lot more than it helps. The community is giving BHVR a big red flashing ######### warning sign and they can either ignore it (because we're not "civil enough") or can acknowledge that there is a ######### issue with only taking kills and escapes into account for judging "Skill"
A newbie Bill can escape every game, a Blendette can use her teammates to constantly escape out of the gate.
But what about those people like me who want to be paired with good teammates but constantly plays playstyles that runs risk at lowering their MMR? I want to face killers and play with people who are on par with my skill level. But my experience the past couple of weeks has been ######### AWFUL.
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You are only see one side of this. Sure, as a Killer, it was great getting bad survivors and being able to slaughter them. However, why your a survivor and you are getting slaughtered, because matchmaking put you against a red rank 1 streamer or you got a survivor far below your level in the match.
There are 5 players in a game. Making only 1 of those players happy and 4 players extremely unhappy is not a very good way to run a business.
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People need to stop being so disingenuous and calling that a lie. It's not.
The first system ONLY used kills and escapes. It didn't work.
This new system is based on kills and escapes, but it modulates it based on the order of kills, and the relative MMR ratings of your opponents who killed/were killed/escaped.
This community doesn't know what is best for it. Like it or not kills/escapes, as a trend, is a useful measure of skill, in the context of matchmaking for fair games that have the best chances of resulting in a 2k. You don't consistently do either unless you're good at the game, relative to the level of your opponents.
Everyone who is throwing their toys out of the pram over MMR just need to ignore it, play the games as if it wasn't there (which is why it's hidden) and you'll see it all works out.
Stop comparing your MMR to other players, it's means nothing, because you don't play the way those players do, and your next game will be with different players doing different things.
Stop trying to raise your MMR, it's not a rank, it doesn't reward you with anything.
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SBMM is garbage, the majority of the community agrees on it.
SoloQ high MMR survivors already have it ez, now SWF are bringing OP items and full meta perks + communication. And BHVR does nothing, sleeping on their way too generous playerbase that buy way too many cosmetics
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Let me just tackle this one reeeeeal quick:
Stop trying to raise your MMR, it's not a rank, it doesn't reward you with anything.
NO ONE is trying to do that. What we want are fair, balanced, and most importantly, FUN matches.
You think it's fun to get killed first? You think it's fun to do great in a game only for the game to give you lesser quality teammates and killers because you died saving your teammates in previous games?
You think it's fun playing against meta perks as a Killer? You think it's fun trying to play killers you are not good at but pushed up into the sweatiest matches possible because your main killer has SIGNIFICANTLY higher MMR than the other killers you play?
And then let me tackle this one:
Stop comparing your MMR to other players, it's means nothing, because you don't play the way those players do, and your next game will be with different players doing different things.
No one is trying to compare their MMR with other players. But we ARE comparing how the other players play in our games. And seeing a Claudette crouching on the other side of the map when the Killer is nowhere nearby when you obviously shouldn't be playing with someone like her or a Killer who can barely even ######### loop a pallet when you shouldn't be facing someone like them in the first place is a sign that the system is not working as much as you or the devs hoped it would.
And the fact that this is a constant in this forum, ######### Reddit, ######### Twitter, ######### other social media platforms and content creators chiming in and now with ACTUAL GOOD REASONS instead of them not being able to make frag montages shows that for the MAJORITY of people, it's not working as intended.
Even for casual players, I've watched my girlfriend who is new to the game constantly face killers who should not even be facing her at all. Killers with decked out meta perks with a hard intention to win. She is new.
She should not be facing a Wraith who slugs her to death constantly.
Now, let's move onto your other points.
The first system ONLY used kills and escapes. It didn't work.
This new system is based on kills and escapes, but it modulates it based on the order of kills, and the relative MMR ratings of your opponents who killed/were killed/escaped.
Imagine this scenario, though actually, don't imagine it.
Remember that one time where you, yes, YOU, carried a team because the old matchmaking tests paired you with low quality survivors.
Yes, remember that time you got camped and killed first?
According to this system, even if you did your best to evade the Killer, to keep them busy, to make sure your teammates do generators. If you got camped and you were the first to die, too-da-loo! According to the system you suck! And you will continue to get teammates you have to carry for as long as you never get an escape streak to get back to "where you should be" even though this system was advertised for people who want to play the game "however they want."
This community doesn't know what is best for it. Like it or not kills/escapes, as a trend, is a useful measure of skill, in the context of matchmaking for fair games that have the best chances of resulting in a 2k. You don't consistently do either unless you're good at the game, relative to the level of your opponents.
Everyone who is throwing their toys out of the pram over MMR just need to ignore it, play the games as if it wasn't there (which is why it's hidden) and you'll see it all works out.
Oh no, I agree. The community usually doesn't know what's best for the game. It often knows jack and ######### about what's good and what's not for this game in terms of balance and changes.
But the community is sure right about one thing. NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY GAMES WHERE THE DECKS ARE STACKED AGAINST OR IN FAVOUR OF YOU! No one wants to play games where it feels like nothing you did in those matches mattered. I will reiterate. We want to play games that are fair, balanced, and FUN
It seems you forget the fun part. No one cares if a game is fair or balanced if you didn't have fun in it in the first place. Because who the ######### plays this game for it's balance? We play it for those fun moments that makes the game worth spending your time into.
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Citation?
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Actually, the majority of the community agrees the SBMM is better than the old system. And you have to remember, this forums is highly Killer sided with lots of play hours and this community as a whole still likes SBMM better than the old emblem system.
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"But the community is sure right about one thing. NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY GAMES WHERE THE DECKS ARE STACKED AGAINST OR IN FAVOUR OF YOU! No one wants to play games where it feels like nothing you did in those matches mattered. I will reiterate. We want to play games that are fair, balanced, and FUN"
Then we're agreed. The old rank based matchmaking was ######### and the new MMR is an improvement.
Under the old system, 45% of the time you were matched with players far above your skill level and you never stood a chance. While 45% of the time you were matched with players far below your skill level and you wiped the floor with them. (although in my experience it was more 75%/25%)
That means the outcomes of your games were never under your control, they were predetermined by the entirely random matchmaking.
This new system, finally matches you with players who, relative your your MMR, are just as good at escaping/killing as you are. Matches are closer, and now the outcomes of the games are more down to how well you play, rather than whether or not you struck out on the matchmaking roulette.
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No, you completely misunderstood my entire argument.
And I don'tw ant to spend anymore time on this #########.
Just.. have fun, you clearly are. But I'm not. Don't try to invalidate my experiences just because you had your fun.
Don't be that person.
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Well then you should change the way you evaluate how glad the community is.
Every streamers don't like the SBMM, survivor and killer mains. Everytime a streamer has created a poll to know his/her viewers point of view, 80% don't like the SBMM.
I'm a 50/50 player, as a survivor, it changed nothing, i still get the potatoes. The first week it was great, now it's back to normal, usual boosted playing high MMR.
And as a killer, almost the totality of the trials are unwinnable if you want to play normally : chase, down, hook, go for another survivor. Gens are flying as never before, every survivors are using toolboxes with charges add-ons. In 1 minute, the 3 first gen are popping, you end up the 1st chase, the 4th gen pop or is almost done. It's unplayable.
Go check the best streamers that play killers and check how fast the gen are going. Most of their trial ends up with all gens done + doors at 99% and they have between 4 and 6 hooks. SO GOOD.
All high MMR killers are forced to tunnel or else it's a loss, PERIOD. If you want 100% of your trial with the first survivor tunneled, glad for you, that's unhealthy and the desertion of the game is a great exemple of how fun DbD is atm.
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That's not the point of whether you want to increase your MMR or not. The whole point of this MMR system is that it matches you with people on your skill level. But yesterday we were told the urban evading Claudette who did diddly squat all match and walks out the gate gets her MMR bumped up, while the one who did 4 gens, ran the killer for five minutes, did six hook saves, but died gets nothing but their MMR bumped down simply because they died. The game did nothing to acknowledge all they did during the match.
That is supposed to be SKILL based match making? Its a joke.
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#1. you cant go off of streamers opinion, especially if they deranked on purpose to get easier matches.
#2. if your constantly tunneling thats the exact reason why your getting genrushed in the first place.
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- They don't have easier match lol, they are loosing all their trials as killers if they don't tunnel.
- You have never played killer right ?
First chase is usually 60 seconds. 60 seconds with toolboxes = 3 gens done.
So you have one hook, 3 gens done, what do you do ? Ye you loose no matter what.
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Are you seriously basing your opinion on how well a Streamer and his minions are rating MMR. You do know that Streamers make a living off of not having MMR.
You are basically going to a Rush Limbaugh meeting and asking everyone there if they hate Nancy Pelosi.
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is not fun and is not fair either, forces survivors to play with firends at higher levels.
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I see top killer mains loosing most of their trials even though they outplay us all as killers. You can check Lilith which is one of the best Blight around, S tier killer, and he is loosing.
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It's not strictly skilled based matching no, it is results based matchmaking.
If you did everything right, looped the killer for 5 hours, rescued everyone, and then died on hook. The game thinks that you should be able to do all of that, AND escape, so it lowers your MMR so that in your subsequent games, you have a better chance of a escaping, while playing just as well as you did before.
If Claudette hid in a corner, did nothing, and yet still escaped, the games thinks that she is probably doing something that is aiding her in escaping too well, so it raises her MMR, so that in her subsequent games, she has to work harder to escape.
How is that not fair?
Well if you're comparing the two players then of course it seems imbalanced. But for the individuals themselves, the outcome is fair to them.
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Did you seriously just ask me how the game judging skill simply based on whether you live or die is not fair?
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Did you seriously not read my post?
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I did. But I cannot believe anyone would ask such a ridiculous question. You're asking why a matchmaking system that ignores every factor in the match other than escape or die is a good way to measure the skill level of a player.
That is a comically stupid way to measure skill. Nobody should even have to think twice on why that is bad.
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Yes, that would be true. Top killers won't be able to compete against top survivors, SWFs. Everyone knows that. The developers said this wouldn't be balanced at the highest level of play. This was made for the other 95% of players that play this game.
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Lilith memes around, i watch his streams.
Nice try calling me a survivor main, i play killer
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I even said it's not a skill based system. It's a results based system.
To put it another way, it is a survivability based system. Are you good at surviving? If so, then it goes up.
How is that not a fair way of determining how good at surviving you are?
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Again this is a rhetorical question. The game is not a 1v1. Its a 1v4. A survivor needs a solid team behind them to win against a competent killer. If your team mates are garbage, then you will lose no matter how good you are.
Survivor is a team effort. Its why solo queue is usually hell because your team mates are often terrible and you usually die not because you played badly but because your team did. You can only do so much in a game that is designed as a 1v4. This new MMR system doesn't take into account any factors that contribute to the outcome of whether someone lives or dies. That's why its garbage.
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Well i think your 95% is optimistic.
Above average killer vs above average survivors is already a terrible experience for killers. The balance is shifting towards survivor once you have an average/average+ level.
the today players peak is at 50k. 3 months ago it was 85k. 1 week ago it was 65k. Don't you see that half the playerbase is leaving ?
I think it suits 50% of the playerbase. And i'm pretty sure that at a low MMR, survivors get reckt most of the times.
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I just want people to stop being rude
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Lmao sbmm isn't fair at all
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I 100% think SBMM is needed so lower skilled people can have a fair and fun time. But I also think the game isn't balanced well enough for higher skill play to have implemented SBMM. At higher skill level the game is terrible. It is all "gen rush" and Blight after Blight due to the balance issues.
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Then I guess we all ought to go play something that's fun instead.
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