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Basekit DS, BT, Unbreakable
Would it be too OP buff if Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable would be basekit?
Would this eliminate tunneling and slugging?
What would be the new meta if these perks would be basekit?
By basekit I mean that you don't need to equip these perks, you have them all the time.
Comments
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U give 3 perks for free. How it won't be OP without any downside?
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Bad enough now as perks but as basekit it simply be a nightmare because that frees up 3 perk slots for even more second chance perks or gen speed perks or exhaustion perks, etc, etc
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If it's just applying their Perk effects all the time, then yes. It would be OP. Need to water them down.
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That is insanely OP
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Ruin should be basekit too if that’s the case, without having the ability to destroy it.
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It is not bait. I am just really curious if it would be really that OP. It would force the killer to play nicely:
Unbreakable = Don't slug for a long time (recovery speed could be nerfed)
DS = Don't tunnel
BT = Don't tunnel
So if the killer plays nice, they won't really notice this.
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Start a separate thread for it. This thread is about survivor perks. But you say that you are fine with this if killer has built-in ruin?
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Ok but my balance to it would be survivor only get 2 hooks instead of 3
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And we could also add Kindred, which would force the killer to not camp. Could be nerfed so that survivors don't see each other's aura.
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But also kills the EGC camp, a distinct change of play, and just homogenizes all games to be Chase/down/hook ad infinitum.
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Feel free to make a proposal in a separate forum thread how to make the survivors play nice.
This thread is about survivor perks and making killer play nice.
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Don't use something stupid as tunnel. Most of the time survivor with DS goes down because he knows i can't hook him or he is just stupid. And slugging is only way to punish him.
BT is fine. I have nothing against it since i don't care about u and your 12 sec cause there is a guy who saved u.
But if u want it to be base kit, give me Devour Hope, Ruin and BBQ as baseline in return.
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You can still slug but not for a long time, because survivor can get up one time. You can also camp, but they will see you.
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Neon figures popping up around the Trial every time someone is hooked is a half-assed implementation that IMO detracts from the environment if it's not a conscious decision by the player to take the Perk.
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DS Unbreakable could be nerfed so that recovering will disable your DS.
Sure, killers could get some similar buffs as well, but I want to discuss only survivors in this thread.
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So basically Survivors no longer want to try and pick each other up (depending on how fast "not a long time" is), just slam gens and never pick up another Survivor since you know they can pick themselves up.
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Yes, they can pick up themselves one time. Recovery speed is not boosted however.
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Regardless of if they see you, if the Killer makes even the slightest mistake during the EGC camp (casual players most likely will) and cannot keep the hook cycle up, the Killer will be hard pressed to "secure a Kill" if they want to as the Unhooked Survivor has guaranteed DS/BT which cannot be avoided without having to consider UB.
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Why is a "base-kit" feature limited to a one-time use?
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Let's make it clear. Currently survivors have literally everything to do good in any single trial against any killer we have. There are perks that can adjust your playstyle and items that boost your heal/repair speed to the sky. There's no buffs needed. And better u get, easier it is to win vs any type of killer. That's why on highest level killers don't get 4k. (Even Nurse players).
If u give 3 free perks to survivors as baseline it would completely destroy game balance and make it that survivors hunt killer.
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Maybe the killer does not deserve to secure a kill like that during EGC.
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This will only make the experience of playing killers miserable (more so than currently). This game is not balanced by hooks, so forcing the killers to play this way will only increase imbalance.
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For the same reason the Unbreakable perk is limited to 1 use.
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But this will force the killers to play nice. We can give killers more power as well and force survivors to play nice. E.g. built in Thana, but I don't want to mid that into this thread.
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Where else are killers gonna go at EGC? If they need a kill why leave the hook?
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Maybe hatch should be removed entirely from the game as well if we're talking about "deserving" things.
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It needing to make its use tactical?
Sure, but that's Perk territory, not base-kit anti-grief territory.
If you're introducing a self-pickup base-kit as an anti-grief mechanic, you need to make sure that it's something you don't necessarily want to do without investment.
Edit: And need to make it available at all times.
Post edited by AnObserver on0 -
Would it be OP if killers got BBQ, Ruin and NOED as basekit?
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I don’t think you understand how OP that would be.
Survivors don’t need 7 perks. I don’t think any of those three need to be nerfed as they are, but basekit? If you want that then you’d have to make some significant other changes either in the way of nerfing survivors heavily or making some of the strongest killer perks basekit as well.
The only perk I would consider that could maybe be basekit for survivors is kindred, and only seeing your teammates (not seeing the killer) in an effort to lessen the gap between solo and SWF.
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I think several perks from both sides should actually have base kit tests-- albeit, with a few tweaks.
A nerfed Ruin and Pop for killers and a nerfed Unbreakable and BT for survivors.
... or something like that.
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I'd actually be okay if DS was basekit, because it's a strict anti-tunneling perk and is very difficult to use offensively without screwing over your team, but basekit BT is a bad idea (now survivors don't even have to wait for the killer to leave the area, they can just hook bomb and body block as a default) and basekit Unbreakable is even worse. Imagine trying to play Twins or Oni when every survivor can guaranteed pick themselves back up. It absolutely breaks certain playstyles and prevents so many snowball opportunities. If these abilities exist, they have to have an opportunity cost.
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The only survivor perk that needs to be base kit is kindred IMO.
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Start a separate forum thread for that. This is about survivor perks.
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Even then, I think auras would be too OP without costing a perk slot.
For basekit functionality, I'd rather see an ability you can use while not otherwise occupied, that shows a 'killer instinct' style directional indicator for other survivors.
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i'm a killer main. i do think many currently meta perks should be incorporated into basekit for the health of the game and to facilitate more healthy, fun play and more perk variety. they could be toned down if needed to compensate. i think this should happen for both sides.
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Please no, I hate running Whispers as killer, it's way too loud.
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Make Ruin, Corrupt, Deadlock, Enduring and Brutal Strength basekit too then :)
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So this would be a pure Killer efficiency nerf while Survivors don't lose anything in return, too op no thank you
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There is always one crucial moment as a killer where you have to slug. This is not toxic, "not nice", or whatever it is. Overslugging or slugging for no reason (for example when you already have a ton of pressure) is another thing, but saying "slugging is an unsportsmanlike conduct because it ruins others game" is as dumb as saying "killing is an unsportsmanlike conduct because it ruins others game".
-> Unbreakable is strong, it has to stay a perk, and not a basekit thing.
DS basekit I want it from its nerf. Now when you DS a killer, they were consciously tunnelling you, and you did not anything to make the game progressing. Tunnelling is something that has to be destroyed.
BT, well, survivors never should unhook in front of the killer, and if DS is basekit, this surv doesn't need BT.
The only thing required to punish a killer to tunnel is the current DS basekit. With that, you can buy a lot of time for your team.
But, these three perks basekit ? Did you ever played a single game as a killer to even think about that ?
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If DS was made basekit, literally anything M1 action would have to disable it.
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Yes, so if you're tunnelled, you don't have the time to do any action, so that's actually a fair counter to it.
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Hello 👋 planet Erath. Think mcfly Think.
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Yeah sure let's give survivors 7 perk slots, what could go wrong, as if the boon totems didn't give enough value already.
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Alright, so lets Law of Unintended Consequences this.
How can Killers counter this? I personally can see 3 options.
1) Forever Legion. You know the one. Mending Add ons, Thana, Dying Light, Pop, and Eruption/Jolt/Corrupt/whatever. Can't tunnel, camp, or slug to get pressure? Fine, I'll bring a build to make the game so dang slow that it doesn't matter. I'll also be on Legion who is like... the one killer who can actively avoid a Survivor trying to abuse BT, DS, and UB because they have a 3rd option in the form of leaving them in Deep Wound with Frenzy. I'm sure Survivors will have a blast with that.
2) Your base kit changes have heavily disincentivized Killers from actually hooking people. You've given them 3 forms of defense that are activated by hooking someone. You've given them 1 for anti slug and its single use. If I'm a killer and I see that and want to win... you know what its time for? Knockout bleed out build. Sure they'll get up once... but only once. I'm sure that'll be super fun for Survivors.
3) The last build/setup I can see surviving this ridiculous buff to Survivors is Insidious 16m away camping Bubba/Trickster to avoid Kindred. Both of them can do damage fast enough to potentially down the rescuer and the rescuee through BT. So... they plough their way through both, pick up the rescuee to get their DS out of the way then hook the rescuer. Rinse Repeat. Again... sounds like a blast to play against.
Why do I think that something like this would happen and that toxicity would skyrocket? Two reasons.
First, everyone already knows that even with all those perks in play tunneling, camping, and slugging are the most powerful ways to play. Chase -> Down -> Hook -> Repeat is slow as all hell to win the game. I'm pretty sure that a lot of Killers treat things like I do. I start out playing Chase -> Down -> Hook -> Repeat because it is nicer and more fun, but once it becomes painfully obvious that the Survivors in my game are too efficient for that to work against, well, then we bust out the tunneling, camping, etc if we need to so we don't get completely demolished. That game plan will cease to have its fall back plan if these changes happen so I imagine a lot less people will employ it as their first plan.
Second, most of the anti tunneling and camping stuff is not actually powerful enough to stop it completely. If somebody really wants you out of the game, they'll get you out of the game. Even if they have to bulldoze through BT, DS, and DH if a Killer really wants to tunnel unless you're a lot better than them they will get you out of the game. However, what those perks do do is make having tunneling and camping as a backup plan completely non viable. Using DS at 4 gens is actually bad because then the killer will probably be like "Alright I've already eaten the punishment for tunneling. Might as well claim the reward for doing it too." and you're gonna die. Using DS at EGC is a free out for everyone still in the trial unless the Killer has 2 slugs at the time. To avoid the frustration of getting punished for making desperate plays, they'll just start out with the "desperate" plays that they'll know will be punished but they'll have enough time to reap the massive benefits for playing that way.
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