Survivors need more physical resources in a match
The last four killers that have been released, have all had a focus on anti-looping and range. The two killers before Twins also have anti-looping and range.
But with each release, the powers are tweaked a little, to give some glitz and glam, but it's copy and paste.
Playing against most of these killers is either frustrating, annoying, or feels disconnected from what DBD is meant to feel like considering that these killers can ignore or overlook what survivors have traditionally as their protection (aka pallets/windows/vaults).
Survivors need some active and in-game counterplay, and no, Boons are not the answer on making the game feel more interactive.
Comments
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Are you suggesting we give survivors a banana peel to drop when being chased?
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No.
This would absolutely ruin the experience of M1 killers even more.
The problem is that we are currently in an arms-race between an increasingly skilled survivor pool that, even at an intermediate level, can loop and pallet a lot of killers to pieces, and new killers almost always having a tool to bypass looping somewhat (the closest to one who can't is Pinhead).
This isn't going to change without a complete shift in the meta, and that shift will have to start with the design of the maps.
Far too many either have pseudo-infinites, endless safe vaults/jungle gyms, a lot of safe pallets or 'free' gens.
EDIT: Yeah. Pinhead is not a true anti-looper, his chains are really easy to break and are nearly useless in any structure or jungle gym. He only excels at dealing with survivors in the open. His strength comes from his addons and his passive pressure (which are getting giant, honestly overly mean nerfs in the next patch).
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i was playing m1 killer for the last 2 days and i completely disagree. On some maps, survivors can barely do any wrong because the next pallet or vault is just 10 metres away. I understand that there was some sort of power creep by all the ranged killers but just adding pallets won't solve the problem
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So instead allow an array of players to suffer with the increasing amount of killers, some which nearly completely, bypass the only natural defense mechanism the survivor side has?
They've made maps smaller, removed infinites, removed pallets/windows and have continued to add even more anti-loop killers ever since those changes. Not to mention that the new map also in itself has awful loops, with one part of the map nearly being a complete deadzone.
I'm not here to argue about semantics either, Pinhead is anti-loop and a range killer, it does not matter to which extent.
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I didn't say to add more pallets, I said that survivors need a new feature in the game to protect themselves specifically against these anti-loop/range killers
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maybe, who knows
sounds funky
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No...they dont, the whole problem with the game is that most killers can be looped eternally thanks to the unbalanced maps, jungle structures and safe pallets that are all over the place, the anti loop killers are actually a healty addition to the game as they break the mold and force the survivors to get out of their confort zone and play diferently. If anything there should be more killers that hard counter suvivors specific playstyles to keep them on their toes. Just like killers that constantly have to adapt to new perks survivors should be on the same place
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This problem goes beyond that, when the devs made this game, they didn't do it with looping in mind, nor did they imagine the game would go from being horror to this killer bully simulator.
With looping (which is currently the right and optimal way of playing) The passing of a trial is messy. Killers couldn't get downs fast enough, they spent years trying to fix this situation and decided that the best way is to make extremely oppressive killers in a chase but have zero map pressure.
Adding more options for survivors would return the game to its previous state, forcing devs to create even more chase-oppressive killers.
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Are you playing in 2017 or something?
They've literally made maps smaller, removed several windows and pallets (which contributed to removing several infinites), on top of adding breakable walls which make most existing loops redundant.
All of these changes simultaneously screwed over M1/Stealth killers as their resources against survivors also got taken away - in favour of the anti-loop and range focused killers.
If you're getting looped eternally, then you're bad at chasing to be honest because the game starts to drastically favour the killer in a chase if it lasts for an extended period of time.
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But they've gone the wrong way about it because they've hit survivors from both sides - removing their resources via reducing map size, removing pallets/windows and adding breakable walls at a lot of loops, and the growing addition of killers focused on range/anti-loop
as I've said in response to another user, it's not as if survivors are the only ones affected by this either, as stealth killers have suffered tremendously from this too.
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uhmm, the last two maps are gigantic, the police station and the crows' nest are a nightmare for a low mobility killer to patrol
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And still many maps are hated and loated with a passion, treads about super safe zones and pallets still pop out continiously wich in turn create "killers are sluging/facecamping/tunneling to much do something", just go to youtube and look for a few minutes, even today theres plenty of evidence on how easy its for survivors to loop most killers unless those are exactly the antilopers or speed rushers (spirit, nurse, blight). Walls are hit and miss, some actually hurt the killers if they break them as they give survivors easier ways to escape while others are actually a help to them.
Sorry to break your bubble but many M1 killers are being guted thanks to dumb nerfs from the devs, wraith rings any bells?, some of those thoug are plain out weak because the way they where designed or their addons are simply bad in many cases.
Did i ever said they loop me to dead?, not really. I play pyramid head the most, so i dont get looped as much thanks to the fact hes an anti looper, that still doesnt take away the fact that with courent tools killers can easily be looped by midly competent survivors.
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If bhvr adds a spiky blue turtle shell, im not coming back lol
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What's it to do with me that M1 killers are being gutted by BHVR? that's a BHVR issue lol, and i never stated the M1 killers were powerful, so i have no idea why you even went there lmao
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Maybe a perk that prevents special abilities from going through walls and windows. Because that's really most of the problem with the hold "w" meta. It's better to run in a straight line from certain killers. You have Nemesis, Pyramid Head, Nurse, Cenobite and the New Killer where they completely ignore loops.
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RPD is literally hated by both sides, and strongly favours said killers though because most of the 'vaults' and 'loops' are tiny and you're mostly running through a tight corridor if you're forced to not loop the killer.
Crows' Nest is also awful in terms of loops, and parts of the map being literal deadzones.
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I'm not exactly sure as to what would be the right direction with these killers, to be honest, i'm just scared that they keep adding more of them.
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I disagree survivors have enough safety if anything survivors need to learn to utilize their resources instead of braindead dropping every pallet they come to, nothing irks me more when I'm playing survivor than a teammate who just stands in every pallet and drops it as soon as the killer comes. Windows need to be utilized more, there are window loops that are crazy strong if you run them correctly
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big maps can't have insanely good loops, haddonfield is the perfect example of why
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You really think they would make a perk that wouldn't let some of the cast use their powers?
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I would like more resources just so the game feels more interactive. At that point they can balance pallets if they want.
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Okay, let's go step by step here.
- The kill-rates of those 'new' killers is mostly fine. Evidently people don't have all that much trouble dealing with them. You can't expect to play the exact same versus every killer.
- Map size isn't an issue in-and-of itself. Ormond is pretty fine. The problem is that there are still potential pseudo-infinites (the 'office' in RPD, the basement house in Haddonfield, some parts of Badham), jungle gyms, free gens etc.
- Can't speak to the new map, but after RPD I'm glad to see a map that isn't disgusting to play most killers on. RPD is a nightmare for M1 killers, Badham remains a rough job, Haddonfield can be extremely oppressive, Mother's Dwelling has potential for multiple TL jungle gyms in close proximity...honestly, the game could do with a bit more even handed maps.
- In this case, semantics do matter because you are being disingenuous. Saying 'Pinhead is a ranged killer' is simply not accurate - outside of Engineer's Fang (which everyone and their dog knows is a problem addon right now). Saying 'Pinhead is an anti-loop killer' is also not accurate - he's only an anti-loop killer on very specific tiles.
- Huntress, Trickster and Slinger are 'ranged' killers.
- Nemesis, PH and to a lesser extent Hag and Nurse are anti-loop killers.
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Sorry but no. Survivors should be at a disadvantage and should be guaranteed to go down eventually. None of this "run the killer in a circle for 5 gens", instead the chases should buy gen time for the other Survivors. Survivors should be guaranteed to go down eventually to the killer and lose chase, make killers scary and promote stealth plays instead of circles
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YES! I WANT THAT!
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I would like another resource for survivors, when a gen is between 50-70% done it halts and requires either fuel or a part that have to be found and retrieved from lockers. To pick up whatever is in the locker you just enter it empty handed.
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The new killer is definitely a loop killer, I said this when I saw somebody putting birds over a pallet. Then somebody made a video about shack where they was able to put birds out on the two exits and the window. The survivor had no choice but to go in shack, running through the birds and getting first hit. They then had two choices, run out through the birds and get downed or stand there, the killer did not even have to make a swing.
This is a knee jerk reaction to all the killer players that cannot loop or chase, then say it's survivor sided and that's why they camp.
I have played this game daily for 2 months as both killer and survivor equally. Killer I win 90% of my games with a 3K or 4K, even with killers with one perk. Survivor I win 50% of my games with all perks.
Pinhead is a joke to play against, he can take all distance you have made from a killer with his chains, Pyramid head can hit through walls, Trickster can have ricochet and on indoor maps, does not even have to aim at you. They make really bad players have an easier life.
I'm not complaining, the game is the game and you have to just find new ways to beat them, play different depending on the killer, but then you just get every killer type camping.
I think BHVR are listening to all the poor killers on here, who keep saying it survivor sided, trying to cater for the new players, instead of thinking about the core game and the long standing players.
It's a shame because I have some good and enjoyable games, not camping, having chases against good players. I have some very poor chases against bad players, these are normally the ones who drop a pallet, teabag and then get downed seconds later, only to be the first to die.
I also have had some good chases with good killers, and get downed but at least they don't camp and tunnel. These players get my respect and admiration. Then you meet the streamers that blatantly camp, just to get wins. One major one holds the record for the most wins with pig, who every time we meet camp the hook.
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Well, as a developer, you kind of paint yourself into a corner when you create Killers who have powers where the best thing you can do against them is run in a straight line. There's no interactivity at all between those killers and players. It's boring game play.
Post edited by Munqaxus on0 -
No, survivors don't need a buff just because of strong killers.
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Thank you.
I'm convinced that this place is filtered with killer biased players because i'm seeing everyone justify all these killers and their existence, not to mention the previous nerfs to the existing resources that survivors have had - whilst also using M1 killers as an excuse for why survivors shouldn't get something in compensation (without seemingly understanding that all these direct nerfs to survivors have screwed said killers)
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omg I can't imagine
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nooo lol
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I agree, there is nothing fun in playing in that if you are spotted you are going down because of no way to defend yourself. If the game is changing so killers have so many ranged abilities and such, then survivors need something other than pallets to defend against it.
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well yeah there's windows, and a certain perk which can help extend the chase by at least 30 seconds when used correctly.
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They haven't made maps smaller they haven't removed the loop, gyms or pallets.the new killer map just proves it. Survivors already have plenty of ways to protect themselves from Killers and powers. Most wont or dont want to learn how to handle Killers in their own way so they whine and scream XX is OP there no counter play nerf now. Sadly....the Devs listen and gut killers until the only thing they can do is Tunnel and Camp just to get a single kill.
Its large, alot of Infiniti loops, god pallets and free gens. Giving survivors MORE ways to screw over M1 killers isn't needed. What's needed is a REAL BALANCE update that looks at both Killers AND Survivors.
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A ranged killer just makes up all the distance. They release maps like Dead Dog Saloon with ranged killers.
Survivor is at a huge disadvantage on this map.
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Some of yall really need to watch how good players play and it shows
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Sluzzy please watch probbz or aayrun run killers on dead dawg I promise you, you will see the error of your ways
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I agree with the size the maps are Killers should have a base speed increase WHEN NOT IN A CHASE so that they can patrol the large maps easier and not have 1-2 gens pop before you can find and chase your first survivor.
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Where have you been when they did map reworks which literally focused on making the maps smaller, blocking loops, adding in breakable walls and closing off certain vaults/windows, lmao????
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RPD, the latest map they released, is literally one of the largest (if not the largest) map in the game. Then there’s the rework to Gideon Meat Plant where there’s like a pallet every 12 meters, including half a dozen god pallets.
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so we are going ignore the large overhaul of reworks they did to other maps? k
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I haven't played long, only a couple of months both killer and survivor. I purposly don't play killer to camp, yes I will proxy camp if the if needed, I will only tunnel as a last resort. If I find somebody I have just unhooked, I will down them but leave them to be saved. May be my downfall, but most games I get 3 or 4k. Some I win, some I only get 1 or 2k.
I can load up my killers any way I want, whether I want to find people, give chase, slow gens or save the kills for the endgame. I can have different builds and change when I see the team. Flashlights, add LightBorn. Toolboxes, Ruin, Pop or any number. Want easy downs at the end NoEd gets run.
When I play survivor I have just a few to pick from. Many survivors I have not even started to level up because I don't need to, as they have no good perks. I cannot see the killer to know who I am going against, I cannot change to suit, I have to wait till we are in game. If I take tools, then I could lose them with Franklins.
Killer players who come on here and start shouting that it is survivor sided, should try playing survivor. Many have not, killer is definitely easier then survivor, more profitable for BP and easier for challenges.
When it comes to maps, this depends on the killer. Indoor maps are easier for killer, big out door maps can be easier for survivor. Loops, well that depends on how good the players are.
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Hate to say it, but Window loops can’t be utilized how they’re supposed to with Killers being able to hit you from 10 ft away after jumping through them.
(10 ft is an obvious exaggeration, of course but in a nutshell, I’m just trying to say Pallets are more useful than windows)
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None of the maps are smaller I dont know where you see maps are smaller all are still busy a large as before. I have yet to see a loop blocked off by the game. Windows yes have been blocked off but none as the semi-inf loops and breakable walls are usually at a spot that if you break it, it makes a semi-inf loop.
Survivors have everything they need to stay alive and you may not like it but it includes......BOONS, Gen Speeds, Un-Altered Items, Meta Perks, SWFs with Coms.....the list goes on. I play Killer mostly because I love the chases and the fun that comes with them but I do dabble with Survivors and have very little experience playing them, but when I do the only time I die is if I get tunneled and Camped or my team leaves me to die on the hook. I can easily loop killers, pallet slam into a long flashlight blind only to repeat the process 4 times maybe 5 depending on my resources at hand. When I do 3-4 gens are done and the killer might get one hook and that's me.
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Its almost like... survivors aren't meant to win every chase they have. Plus if you just give survivors more recourses it strays even FURTHER from the horror survival genre and just becomes press w = win. If you really want more resources then you haven't seen the time of double window and pallet jungle gyms or just when every filler tile had a pallet.
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Thank you I didn't think they "shrunk" the maps......
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What reworks there has been no changes to map sizes. Red Forest is still large.....Coldwind is still large.......Gideon is filled with so many pallets and god pallets that survivors would have to be potatoes ro die on it easily.
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Hold w and slam gens, that's already in the game and survivors are already doing it. They are winning games, they don't "need" anything more.
If you just don't like it that's a different convo.
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That.... I want this now, blast you....
>.<
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That certain perk is unusable on last gen console :'(
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