Buff the rancor perk

YUS3I

I’ve seen the last killer, in particular her last perk, rancor.
I think isn’t really useful as it is now, because the only advantagies that gives to the user is to know the position of the survivors for 3 seconds, to down in one shot and than the possibility to kill your obsession (all after completed the last gen); it has also the disadvantage that every time a gen is completed, your obsession knows where you are.
The other perk that is more similar to it is Noed, that makes you a little faster, and gives you the possibility to down every survivor with one shot only if the linked totem is still active and only when the last gen is fixed.
So let’s compare this two perks, and let’ see why a player should choose rancor instead of noed.
I’ll write a number near every good or bad thing (from 1 to 5): the higher it is, the more important in my opinion it is.

These are all the “pros” of using rancor instead of noed:
- you can kill the obsession (after downed) (2)
yes, you have a “free” mori, and you have not to fight against that terrible decisive strike, but remember that you’re near the end of the match, you haven’t got much time, so even if you reach to find the obsession and to kill him, the others are probably already waiting you near the gates, so only one kill.
- you can see the aura of survivors after a gen has been fixed (3)
it could be quite good, but it last only three seconds, instead of bitter murmur, for example, that gives five seconds (Lv3 10 after the last gen).
These are the only good things that i’ve found; here is the disadvantagies:
- the obsession can see you every time a gen is done (1)
nothing to explain i guess.
- it’s difficult to put this perk in an end-game build (4)
the other end-game perks are:
- blood warden: you have to hook someone to active it.
- remember me: you have to hit the obsession to gain tokens, and it’s obvious that after you hit him twice, you hook him; so if you have 4 or more tokens when the last generator is fixed, you have probably hooked the obsession once or twice, and you have almost “ignored” the others, so it’s quite useless to kill him.
- noed: the only benefits that rancor gives with noed is to kill the obsession, as a simple mori, pretty useless.

These are the advantagies of noed:
- you are slightly faster (3)
it could be a very little buff, but trust me, it has saved me more than once.
-you can one-shot every survivor (5)
this can be explained by itself.
- it can be easily used in an end-game build (5)
i personally use it on the pig with remember me, blood warden and bbq. It’s devastating.
Disadvantagies:
it’s an hex perk: (2)
Even if it is an hex perk, remember that is different compared to the others, because it become active only in the end, and survivors surely prefer to escape than searching a totem risking their life.
So we have seen that rancor at the moment isn’t a really good perk, so i want to say some different options that in my opinion could buff it (choosing only one of them of course):
- giving the status of exposed after the third (or fourth) gen done, and than after the fifth the possibility to kill the obsession;
- giving the possibility to kill the obsession without downing him before (as michael with some of his add-ons);
- increasing the power to see the obsession to 5 seconds + one of the options said before (so all survivors can be seen for three seconds, the obsession for five).
I personally think that the best one is the third plus the first, in this way rancor wouldn’t be an end-game perk, and i can imagine a good build with save the best for last.
Let me think what you guys think about it.

Malakir

Hahaha no

Its a mix of bitter murmur and a mori. The perk its actually fine depending on the build you got in especially to kill the DS user if you usually ignore them in your games. So you can kill them if they are greedy as they usually are

Let's just stop screaming about perk changes where isn't needed

YUS3I

Thanks for your answer, but i don't think what you said is true.
You said that rancor is a mix of mori and bitter murmur,
well no.
1) Yes, you can kill someone as the mori, but you can kill only the obsession and only in the end of the match (if you're lucky to catch him)
2) Yes, you can see survivors when the last gen is fixed, as bitter murmur, but for only 3 seconds, and try to see everyone position in 3 seconds if you are in a chase.
But i think I've already said these things before.
I'd like to know in which good build you use it, because at the moment i don't see any.
And last thing to say, there are some other perks that need buffs, as stridor, overwhelming presence, streetwise, left behind, pharmacy (I could continue all day). Do not say that you use or have seen someone using them, because it's nearly impossible. And even if someone uses them, i don't think they are high rank players.
So yes, i scream and i will scream for some perk changes until they will be competitive or useful as the others.

YUS3I

@Malakir said:
Hahaha no

Its a mix of bitter murmur and a mori. The perk its actually fine depending on the build you got in especially to kill the DS user if you usually ignore them in your games. So you can kill them if they are greedy as they usually are

Let's just stop screaming about perk changes where isn't needed

Thanks for your answer, but i don't think what you said it's true.
You said that rancor is a mix of bitter murmur and mori,
well no
1)Yes, you can kill someone, but only the obsession and only in the end of the match (if you reach to catch him).
2)Yes, you can see survivors when the last gen is fixed, but for only 3 seconds, and try to see carefully everyone position in 3 seconds if you're in a chase.
But i think i've already said these things before.
I'd like to know in which good build do you use it, because at the moment i don't see any.
And last thing to say, there are some perks that extremely need a buff, as Overwhelming presence, Left behind, Pharmacy, Vigil, Surveillance (I could continue all day). Do not say that you use or have seen someone using them, because it's nearly impossible, and even if someone uses them, honestly I don't think it's an high rank player.
So yes, i scream and I'll scream until these perks are going to be as useful as the others.

TheMadDoctor

@Malakir said:
Hahaha no

Its a mix of bitter murmur and a mori. The perk its actually fine depending on the build you got in especially to kill the DS user if you usually ignore them in your games. So you can kill them if they are greedy as they usually are

Let's just stop screaming about perk changes where isn't needed

Actually, Rancor isn't really the best tracking perk, unlike bitter murmur, it shows the survivors like if they went up a madness tier...that's not too useful. Sure it has its uses, but it's not really the best perk when there are so many others you could use.

DemonDaddy

Personal rancor build;
Rancor, remember me, sloppy butcher, colourphobia (you know the one)
Varies on killer but a great combo to down and ignore the obsession, opens up an altruistic team for punishment and limits gen rush if you play well 

Malakir

TheMadDoctor said:

@Malakir said:
Hahaha no

Its a mix of bitter murmur and a mori. The perk its actually fine depending on the build you got in especially to kill the DS user if you usually ignore them in your games. So you can kill them if they are greedy as they usually are

Let's just stop screaming about perk changes where isn't needed

Actually, Rancor isn't really the best tracking perk, unlike bitter murmur, it shows the survivors like if they went up a madness tier...that's not too useful. Sure it has its uses, but it's not really the best perk when there are so many others you could use.

Did I say was a good tracking perk? No
When you mix a perk you won't make a better perk of those 2 things. It MUST be worse than bitter murmur as tracking perk and worse than an ebony morning or it would be open

I know its hard to understand but its the basic of balance do you won't make a op sht but a decent option. Take something that do both but worse to save slots

Malakir

YUS3I said:

@Malakir said:
Hahaha no

Its a mix of bitter murmur and a mori. The perk its actually fine depending on the build you got in especially to kill the DS user if you usually ignore them in your games. So you can kill them if they are greedy as they usually are

Let's just stop screaming about perk changes where isn't needed

Thanks for your answer, but i don't think what you said it's true.
You said that rancor is a mix of bitter murmur and mori,
well no
1)Yes, you can kill someone, but only the obsession and only in the end of the match (if you reach to catch him).
2)Yes, you can see survivors when the last gen is fixed, but for only 3 seconds, and try to see carefully everyone position in 3 seconds if you're in a chase.
But i think i've already said these things before.
I'd like to know in which good build do you use it, because at the moment i don't see any.
And last thing to say, there are some perks that extremely need a buff, as Overwhelming presence, Left behind, Pharmacy, Vigil, Surveillance (I could continue all day). Do not say that you use or have seen someone using them, because it's nearly impossible, and even if someone uses them, honestly I don't think it's an high rank player.
So yes, i scream and I'll scream until these perks are going to be as useful as the others.

No ######### sherlock

You just described the perk, have a tracking part but worse than bitter murmur and a integrated morning but worse than an ebony

Ofc its like this or it would become op. You choose that so you can have some benefit of those two saving a slot, not so difficult to understand

Overwhelming Presence, the worse example since in some builds you actually use it. The others? OFC some needs buffs, like the ones they did with leader streetwise ironwill etc. I would love to see some buffs on these too especially stealth perks but rancor isn't one of these

Its a fine perk, not op, designed to counter DS and adapt on some game styles that involve ignore one guy or focus others. Like remember me for example, its meant to be used with a plan ahead 

Some need buffs? Sure like others need needs but just wait, with the last patch I saw great improvement in balancing. They are thinking the same, you're not the only one who thinks some perk need some tweaks, as said look the last patch

powerbats

I main Rin right now and Rancor is fine, perhaps an extra 1 second duration but other than that it's fine. If it gets buffed beyond that it'll be Nurse level op and then promptly get nerfed into the ground.

To use it you have to pay attention to your surroundings and use it to it's fullest potential, and it's especially great for after you just hooked someone and a gen pops. You'll see if someones close and under BBQ and can quickly nail them.

Malakir

powerbats said:

I main Rin right now and Rancor is fine, perhaps an extra 1 second duration but other than that it's fine. If it gets buffed beyond that it'll be Nurse level op and then promptly get nerfed into the ground.

To use it you have to pay attention to your surroundings and use it to it's fullest potential, and it's especially great for after you just hooked someone and a gen pops. You'll see if someones close and under BBQ and can quickly nail them.

This
My resoonses was more provocative but in a better manner yeah

As always you put nice thoughts behind your posts. Are you a mod or something? You are way too kind sometimes (not here but in general)

powerbats

@Malakir said:
powerbats said:

I main Rin right now and Rancor is fine, perhaps an extra 1 second duration but other than that it's fine. If it gets buffed beyond that it'll be Nurse level op and then promptly get nerfed into the ground.

To use it you have to pay attention to your surroundings and use it to it's fullest potential, and it's especially great for after you just hooked someone and a gen pops. You'll see if someones close and under BBQ and can quickly nail them.

This
My resoonses was more provocative but in a better manner yeah

As always you put nice thoughts behind your posts. Are you a mod or something? You are way too kind sometimes (not here but in general)

I'm not a mod here but over the past 30 years or so I've been a mod/admin on countless servers/forums etc dating back to BBS boards.

YUS3I

just to clarify, my intent was to understand what others players thought of that perk, certainly not to fight XD.
I still remain convinced of my previous analysis, but I'm glad I become aware of other opinions.
I suppose this is the meaning of the existence of this forum haha

TheMadDoctor

@Malakir said:
TheMadDoctor said:

@Malakir said:

Hahaha no

Its a mix of bitter murmur and a mori. The perk its actually fine depending on the build you got in especially to kill the DS user if you usually ignore them in your games. So you can kill them if they are greedy as they usually are

Let's just stop screaming about perk changes where isn't needed

Actually, Rancor isn't really the best tracking perk, unlike bitter murmur, it shows the survivors like if they went up a madness tier...that's not too useful. Sure it has its uses, but it's not really the best perk when there are so many others you could use.

Did I say was a good tracking perk? No
When you mix a perk you won't make a better perk of those 2 things. It MUST be worse than bitter murmur as tracking perk and worse than an ebony morning or it would be open

I know its hard to understand but its the basic of balance do you won't make a op sht but a decent option. Take something that do both but worse to save slots

You're forgetting something though, a killer has 4 perk slots going against 16, making it where it was a better tracking perk isn't broken. It would not make the perk broken for 2 reasons,
1:The obsession can see your aura everytime a gen is completed, the reason it shows the auras like the doctor's madness is because apparently survivor's auras don't show up while phase walking, which is very dumb since you can't really see survivors in phase walk and only seeing their actual aura for a few seconds would not fully give them away due to needing to pay heavy attention to the scratch marks and sound cues to find a survivors location.
2:You can only kill your obsession when the gates were powered, the arguement to make it worse than an ebony mori and bitter murmur made no sense as only being able to mori your obsession is fine. Never said it had to better than that. Also, you can counter perks like bitter murmur by changing directions once the aura timer expires. Making it so the spirit could see aura's in phase walk wouldn't be a bad change. Also...killer's are going against 4 survivors, they are supposed to be op but balanced in a way to where they aren't impossible.

TheMadDoctor

@Malakir said:
YUS3I said:

@Malakir said:

Hahaha no

Its a mix of bitter murmur and a mori. The perk its actually fine depending on the build you got in especially to kill the DS user if you usually ignore them in your games. So you can kill them if they are greedy as they usually are

Let's just stop screaming about perk changes where isn't needed

Thanks for your answer, but i don't think what you said it's true.

You said that rancor is a mix of bitter murmur and mori,

well no

1)Yes, you can kill someone, but only the obsession and only in the end of the match (if you reach to catch him).

2)Yes, you can see survivors when the last gen is fixed, but for only 3 seconds, and try to see carefully everyone position in 3 seconds if you're in a chase.

But i think i've already said these things before.

I'd like to know in which good build do you use it, because at the moment i don't see any.

And last thing to say, there are some perks that extremely need a buff, as Overwhelming presence, Left behind, Pharmacy, Vigil, Surveillance (I could continue all day). Do not say that you use or have seen someone using them, because it's nearly impossible, and even if someone uses them, honestly I don't think it's an high rank player.

So yes, i scream and I'll scream until these perks are going to be as useful as the others.

No ######### sherlock

You just described the perk, have a tracking part but worse than bitter murmur and a integrated morning but worse than an ebony

Ofc its like this or it would become op. You choose that so you can have some benefit of those two saving a slot, not so difficult to understand

Overwhelming Presence, the worse example since in some builds you actually use it. The others? OFC some needs buffs, like the ones they did with leader streetwise ironwill etc. I would love to see some buffs on these too especially stealth perks but rancor isn't one of these

Its a fine perk, not op, designed to counter DS and adapt on some game styles that involve ignore one guy or focus others. Like remember me for example, its meant to be used with a plan ahead 

Some need buffs? Sure like others need needs but just wait, with the last patch I saw great improvement in balancing. They are thinking the same, you're not the only one who thinks some perk need some tweaks, as said look the last patch

.....it doesn't counter DS till the gates are powered, that doesn't count as counter, but using it with Remember Me is a nasty combo. Rancor does not counter DS, it only does in one situation, and by that time, the obsession probably would of used it by now. Also we're talking about a killer perk, not survivor perks, stick to that for the arguement.

Milo

Oh also Noed can be completely negated before it activates

Master

2 weeks after it has been released, I have never encountered rancor again.
Do I need to say more?

bubbascal

@Master said:
2 weeks after it has been released, I have never encountered rancor again.
Do I need to say more?

What ranks do you hover at?

Rancor is honestly strong the way it is. You can try and slug a obsession if there's one gen to go and see if you can get another person downed. Then you can quickly mori them and hook that downed person. Maybe you wanna use Blood Warden with Rancor too?

And if you suck, or you encounter a obviously SWF team that is way too prepared to dismantle, you can just mori to get the one kill needed to safety pip and move on to the next match.

powerbats

@bubbascal said:

@Master said:
2 weeks after it has been released, I have never encountered rancor again.
Do I need to say more?

What ranks do you hover at?

Rancor is honestly strong the way it is. You can try and slug a obsession if there's one gen to go and see if you can get another person downed. Then you can quickly mori them and hook that downed person. Maybe you wanna use Blood Warden with Rancor too?

And if you suck, or you encounter a obviously SWF team that is way too prepared to dismantle, you can just mori to get the one kill needed to safety pip and move on to the next match.

This I use it and see it all the time at rank 1-2 because the good killers know how to use it to it's fullest. The great killers with it are just terrifying and I've even seen scratched Mirror Myers using it and 4king.

BigBubs

To use Rancor to it's fullest (and to counter DS) you would have to let the obsession live till the end of the game. If you don't think you are capable of playing in a specific way , and don't have a plan and just wanna run around without thinking and want to have that "insurance" for the end , then use NOED.
No need for a buff because you want it.

Esheon

I think Rancor is fine as it is. It's viable by itself, and great to mix with some perks.

People compare it to Bitter Murmur, but it has one solid advantage on Murmur... It's not restricted to showing the people near the gen. If you've got 2 on a gen and 1 sneaking in to save, Rancor will show you all 3 of them while Murmur would only show the 2 on the gen.

Ive gotten my best results from Rancor by pairing it with STBFL and just ignoring the obsession the whole game, but even by itself it's good.

TheMadDoctor

BigBubs said:

To use Rancor to it's fullest (and to counter DS) you would have to let the obsession live till the end of the game. If you don't think you are capable of playing in a specific way , and don't have a plan and just wanna run around without thinking and want to have that "insurance" for the end , then use NOED.
No need for a buff because you want it.

I still don't agree with it countering DS. You'd have to let them live till the end, using remember me with it would already have the obsession use it due to an extra hit equaling another token. Plus...survivors can use ds without being the obsession, rancor does not counter it.

bubbascal

@TheMadDoctor said:
BigBubs said:

To use Rancor to it's fullest (and to counter DS) you would have to let the obsession live till the end of the game. If you don't think you are capable of playing in a specific way , and don't have a plan and just wanna run around without thinking and want to have that "insurance" for the end , then use NOED.

No need for a buff because you want it.

I still don't agree with it countering DS. You'd have to let them live till the end, using remember me with it would already have the obsession use it due to an extra hit equaling another token. Plus...survivors can use ds without being the obsession, rancor does not counter it.

Someone who has DS will have a high chance of making them the obsession if a Killer uses Rancor.

While this doesn't stop other Survivors from using it, the Killer will know to be on their guard around their obsession and only down if there's a hook so close that the obsession can't DS in time.

Or bully the obsession whenever possible (Injure them, chase them off things, maybe make them drop a pallet for you to break in a "chase", etc...) and prevent them from doing anything until everyone else is dead. Make them heal, make them do rescues, get them off gens, etc...

Non-obsession Survivors also have to get the wiggle gauge to a certain point for the skill check to appear. It's also obvious when they just got DS to pop up and they're gonna use it, so you can react in time.

HatCreature

@TheMadDoctor said:
BigBubs said:

To use Rancor to it's fullest (and to counter DS) you would have to let the obsession live till the end of the game. If you don't think you are capable of playing in a specific way , and don't have a plan and just wanna run around without thinking and want to have that "insurance" for the end , then use NOED.

No need for a buff because you want it.

I still don't agree with it countering DS. You'd have to let them live till the end, using remember me with it would already have the obsession use it due to an extra hit equaling another token. Plus...survivors can use ds without being the obsession, rancor does not counter it.

It is a counter to DS because you wouldn't pick them up after downing them, you'd just leave them there. If you have Remember Me it gets even better because you can keep hitting them, never picking them up means they can never USE their D-Strike and that's a counter because you can Mori them at the end. Yeah, you never get your full amount of hooks but you don't usually get your full amount every game.

tt_ivi_99

YUS3I said:

I’ve seen the last killer, in particular her last perk, rancor.
I think isn’t really useful as it is now, because the only advantagies that gives to the user is to know the position of the survivors for 3 seconds, to down in one shot and than the possibility to kill your obsession (all after completed the last gen); it has also the disadvantage that every time a gen is completed, your obsession knows where you are.
The other perk that is more similar to it is Noed, that makes you a little faster, and gives you the possibility to down every survivor with one shot only if the linked totem is still active and only when the last gen is fixed.
So let’s compare this two perks, and let’ see why a player should choose rancor instead of noed.
I’ll write a number near every good or bad thing (from 1 to 5): the higher it is, the more important in my opinion it is.

These are all the “pros” of using rancor instead of noed:
- you can kill the obsession (after downed) (2)
yes, you have a “free” mori, and you have not to fight against that terrible decisive strike, but remember that you’re near the end of the match, you haven’t got much time, so even if you reach to find the obsession and to kill him, the others are probably already waiting you near the gates, so only one kill.
- you can see the aura of survivors after a gen has been fixed (3)
it could be quite good, but it last only three seconds, instead of bitter murmur, for example, that gives five seconds (Lv3 10 after the last gen).
These are the only good things that i’ve found; here is the disadvantagies:
- the obsession can see you every time a gen is done (1)
nothing to explain i guess.
- it’s difficult to put this perk in an end-game build (4)
the other end-game perks are:
- blood warden: you have to hook someone to active it.
- remember me: you have to hit the obsession to gain tokens, and it’s obvious that after you hit him twice, you hook him; so if you have 4 or more tokens when the last generator is fixed, you have probably hooked the obsession once or twice, and you have almost “ignored” the others, so it’s quite useless to kill him.
- noed: the only benefits that rancor gives with noed is to kill the obsession, as a simple mori, pretty useless.

These are the advantagies of noed:
- you are slightly faster (3)
it could be a very little buff, but trust me, it has saved me more than once.
-you can one-shot every survivor (5)
this can be explained by itself.
- it can be easily used in an end-game build (5)
i personally use it on the pig with remember me, blood warden and bbq. It’s devastating.
Disadvantagies:
it’s an hex perk: (2)
Even if it is an hex perk, remember that is different compared to the others, because it become active only in the end, and survivors surely prefer to escape than searching a totem risking their life.
So we have seen that rancor at the moment isn’t a really good perk, so i want to say some different options that in my opinion could buff it (choosing only one of them of course):
- giving the status of exposed after the third (or fourth) gen done, and than after the fifth the possibility to kill the obsession;
- giving the possibility to kill the obsession without downing him before (as michael with some of his add-ons);
- increasing the power to see the obsession to 5 seconds + one of the options said before (so all survivors can be seen for three seconds, the obsession for five).
I personally think that the best one is the third plus the first, in this way rancor wouldn’t be an end-game perk, and i can imagine a good build with save the best for last.
Let me think what you guys think about it.

I still have to test this build but I'd try Play With Your Food, Save the Best for Last, Rancor, and either NOED or Brutal Strenght .

That way you wont have to worry about the obsession, you can hit all the other survivors and gain your STBFL and PWYF tokens, you dont even have to worry about gens getting done because the obsession will be the one doing them if you just let her go. Dont have to worry about DS and when gates are open Obsession is killed.

Rebel_Raven

I'd like it to be extended to not just work when the gens are done, but if the obsession is the last one alive. 
I.e. if there's 1 gen left, and only the obsession is alive.
If no gens are done, or there's 4 left and the obsession is the last one alive.

Sorta like adding an obsession only cypress mori.