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Noed needs a rework
It is just simply too powerful against soloQ.
My idea: survivors should know at the start of the match that killer has NOED and should have a totemcounter.
Comments
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The only change I would support to NOED is having the "exposed" come up as soon as the gens are done and NOED activates. That way there is no "first guy caught gets a surprise down." and IMO it's completely fair then.
14 -
Less hand holding.
Just do bones.
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Do bones
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Wait, someone has a problem with NOED?
This is the first time I've seen a thread about this...
.... this hour.
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NOED does not need a rework. Especially now that boons prevent it spawning on some totems that are still standing, if you're worried about NOED you should go take care of the bones during the trial.
If you don't have time to do the bones, you have two other options after it procs:
- Go find and disable the totem it spawned on.
- Leave.
This is why I do support it being announced as soon as it activates- it has tons of counterplay, but to be fair, the first guy who gets hit doesn't have a chance to employ over half of the available options.
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No. Stop crying and learn how to lose. There are so many perks for totems, but I'm pretty sure you use the same meta build: dh, DS, unbreakable, bt. Always.
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I'm okay with removing NOED if we also remove CoH and DH
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A base totem counter would go a long way. I’d even travel to the basement if that’s what it took to know. People can say all they want that it’s not for bad killers, but when it’s almost always what leads to my first down in a match… yeah, definitely carries bad killers.
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Do you ever play survivor soloQ?
That's unrealistic to cleanse all totems.
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Do you ever play soloQ? Or are you just another killer main who has to rely on this perk to be able to get some sacrifices?
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Do bones, simple as that.
I play solo and rarely it activates so no it's simply not to powerful for soloQ.
The reason you think it needs a rework ir think it's to powerful is simply because it punishes bad play by survivors.
Let's power through the gens fast and get out is the mindset, and crying to bhvr for a secondary objective.
Why a new secondary objective if you can't even handle the current secondary by simply doing bones? 🤷🏼♂️
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Switch 1 if your perks for small game.
There you go, you got a totem counter 🎉🎉🎉
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I don't understand the argument of "just do bones."
Yeah, I'll do all five bones while the rest of my teammates die because I'm not on generators. Not to mention how ridiculous it is in solo queue, yeah you have 3 other teammates but are they going to cleanse totems? You don't know that.
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DS and BT punishes killers who don't play nicely and tunnel hard. So if you olay nicely you don't even notice that those perks exist.
Looks like you never play survivor soloQ, just another proud NoED user.
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You could also just leave the match.
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I only play solo queue and I have no problems with NOED. It's not hard to learn totem spawns after playing on the same maps all the time. Even if I can't find them all, I can always look for the lit totem after it procs and I usually find it by sound. In the situation that I can't find it, I just open the gate and leave because I know I'm not entitled to rescue anyone on hook and have a 4 man escape. I also have the option to use Small Game which notifies me that a totem is in front of me and also provides a totem counter.
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Correct you don't know that.
If you are annoyed by getting hit by noed, then just take it up on yourself to find the bones and cleanse them.
Besides, you can't win them all 😉
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Oh sorry, I already had to switch one of my perks for anti-camp, and another for anti-tunnel, and yet another for anti-slug. So my last perk slot needs to be dedicated to the chance the killer has NOED?
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As in DC, or...?
If you mean just escaping, then you're missing the point. I'll work on cleansing all 5 totems and that takes the time of trying to find each totem, as well as running to them and cleansing them. In all that time, you could be doing generators, and god knows what will happen to the survivors if I waste my time on each and every totem. We're talking solo queue here.
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Not when you’re the one who gets to reveal NOED for the team.
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Well, I'm not necessarily annoyed by getting hit by NOED, I just consider it to be unfair.
People keep missing the point for some odd reason.
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Detectives hunch is a good way to find totems in between gens.
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You don't have to run these perks, that is just between your ears mate.
The only "meta" perk i use is dead hard.
The rest i switch around for for different perks.
I don't use ub, not ds, not kindred or any other meta perks.
I just remember the totem spawns and even escape as well.
Meta perks that is needed as survivor is just between your ears, not every game the killer tunnels or camps 😉
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If you don't have a map (I can't bring one every single game), you're still taking the time to find them if you don't have perfect memory of the totem locations, and this is coming from someone who runs Hunch a lot. Keep in mind you still have to run to each totem, in which the killer could eventually find you while doing so, or even get a survivor out of the game.
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i play solo queue survivor and use noed sometimes. it is a very fair perk.
people seem to complain, but never try and do anything about it.
once one person is knocked, find noed and cleanse or open the door and escape. not very hard.
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If the killer is really as bad as you people say, then you have time to do bones, if he was pressuring you well enough that you couldn't do bones, then he earned it, he was using 3 perks during the trial
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No it isn’t. I run noed on almost every build I play. There are definitely some games where it never activated.
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You just don’t wanna take the time and do totems.
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I don’t ‘have’ to run them, I just get to suffer terrible matches when I could have used them. And I don’t run any of the perks you mentioned since the DS nerf. The difference is that killers can camp, tunnel, and slug for free - no perks needed for these play styles. Perks only enhance them for killers.
But a solo queue survivor is always told to run this or that perk in the off-chance this or that happens to them. As if we have eight perk slots.
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Unfair?
Why is it that when i play that i have no trouble finding the totems without my team dying around me, but when i come to the forums people always say things like you did earlier?
Either I'm very high in mmr where that doesn't happen, or people who complain about it are at a lower level?
It might seem unfair as it can reward bad olay by killers, but it rewards more by bad play from survivors.
You power through the gens?
Then just escape, it really is not that hard
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Player Solo Q almost my entire dbd experience and I hate hand holding. Either do bones or survivors just go look for NOED when someone gets hit.
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"Do bones" is always a stupid argument.
OhTofu made a good comparison - lets imagine there is a Survivor Perk which grants the Survivor 10% Movement Speed when all Gens are done. BUT it can be countered, even before - the Killer just has to go to the Basement and open every Locker 2 times. After doing this, the Perk is inactive and it will not activate.
Look, a strong Perk with a counter. Just open lockers. Killers should be fine with that, it has counterplay. And way faster than cleansing all Totems.
Let alone that "Do bones" is not always possible. I had a game today against a Trickster, I did 3 1/2 Gens on my own. Because my team was basically only running around. And who dies to NOED? Me. But I would not have had any time to cleanse any Totems, since nobody else was doing Gens for a large amount of time (I did half a Gen with another Survivors and while I was doing 2 Gens Solo, nobody else did Gens... second to last Gen popped a few seconds before I finished my third Solo-Gen).
If I would have run around to cleanse Totems, we probably would not even have reached the Endgame.
"Do Bones" would ONLY be an acceptable counter if:
- There would be a built-in Totem Counter
- OR, even better: The UI shows what other Survivors are doing. So a Solo Survivor would know if others are also cleansing (aka they can estimate how many Totems are removed) and would know if others are actually doing Gens (if nobody is doing Gens, it is equally bad)
Other than that, "do bones" ist just a phrase of an unfunny animation series. But again - we can implement a strong Survivor Perk like OhTofu mentioned, would be the same counterplay... So it should be fine for Killers.
NOED obviously needs a Rework. It should move completely away from Totems, a Survivor should not have to cleanse Totems which do nothing to win the game for a Perk the Killer might not even have.
It should grant the Killer a Bonus in Endgame depending how well they did.
Also an idea from OhTofu regarding NOED-->Remove the Hex-Part. Then, for each Hook the Killer gets 0,5% Movement Speed after all Gens are done, after a fixed number of Hooks they also get the Instadown. This would actually reward Killers who do well during the game and would do next to nothing to Killers who fail the whole game or just camp the first Survivor they find.
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Imma be blunt: No, I don't.
Because in the vast majority of cases, the effort invested into 'doing bones' is not actually going to counter NOED. You're more likely to make NOED stronger than to counter it by doing bones.
This is as someone who runs DetHunch most of the time: Doing bones does NOT work, unless your teammates are carrying.
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I never said you have to run small game or any totem finding perk, but if you are annoyed by it then you have the option to run it.
Don't complain about a killer perk that can easily be countered but you just don't want to do it.
Btw there is also an item to find totems easily, it's called a map.
You don't have to switch a perk for it and if you bring the rainbow map you can even show it to your team.
Taa daa....... problem solved.
If you think you get terrible matches by not running certain perks as survivor, than you have to adjust your playstyle maybe? 😉
Not saying you play bad, but you probably play the way you do as with the perks you always use.
Learn and adept, it's not that difficult and noed is so easy to counter.
And yes even in soloq, i know what I'm talking about as i only play solo and only on rare occasions i get hit by it.
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Your problem isnt noed, but your teammates
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You know the whole 'swiffer is OP' thing?
Part of the reason is because of things like NOED, severely hurting solo queue while being mostly inert in Swiffer queue. It's not an isolated problem, it's affected more than just its own little segment.
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Think ghostface gave a good comment about it.
But the fun thing is that when a survivor is told to just do bones (which they should as it's a secondary objective), they get pissed by it for being told that.
But with boons i see survivors say the exact same thing, and boons are even stronger than hexes, as it can completely remove auras, remove scratchmarks, faster healing or even healing without items, and then you get that new boon that gives unlimited unbreakable.
But sure let the killers just do bones 😂
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NO ! absl. terrible idea
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I mean, I try to do at least one totem in most of my games, but I guess I don't want to cleanse totems apparently.
It's also map design with their totem spawns that can mess you up. If all survivors don't do a single totem at all, then sure, it's a bad play on their end, but there's no helping for survivors that did at least less than 5 totems.
You can't really escape if the NOED totem is in a really weird spot, and if you get downed, your fate is likely sealed, there's no saving yourself unless the survivors somehow find the totem. Most survivors would just leave, which is the better option, but it's still unfair when you get killed. I don't mind it, but it still gave the killer an unfair kill.
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Have fun cleansing all 5 totems on garbage maps like RPD and Midwich where by the time you have found all the killer has already won the game.
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I play SoloQ all the time and I have no issues about doing bones.......I have Small Game and have Maps to track where they all are when I'm running around. So with Boons we can take care of NoEd before it spawns. So again DO BONES.
2 -
time to do things...or say things that could put some debate topic on blast on this controversial topic.
1) do bones.
- this is valid. you can cleanse totems all throughout the trial. you can say it's harder when you have to get gens done, but what's stopping you after the gens are done? clearly your getting the gens done to be killed by noed.
- even if their hard to find, you can try and other times, aw well...bad luck. it's just how it is.
2) how is the killer snowballing with noed?
- how many survivors were left? if 2, i think he did pretty good. if 4, how many are on death hook? did already have a survivor hooked and got another one? did the killer have too much pressure. was it a high tier killer? what's the context?
- did you guys open the doors, but didn't leave when you had the chance?
3) does noed give undeserved or free kills?
- you can say that sure, but what effort was made to prevent this? did anyone look for the totem? did the door get 99'd? did you play accordingly or to the best of your ability?
4) is noed unfair?
- aren't all perks unfair? boons gives powerful effects, UB you can pick yourself up, DS gives you a free stun on the killer, adrenaline gives a free health state, even when hooked or on the killers shoulder or trap. there's also other unfair killer perks. that's what they do.
as i said, i play soloq and have gone against many noeds. I adapt to the situation and try to play accordingly if i can. and trust me i was a sworn DS hater back in the day, but then i eventually decided it was okay-ish and stopped the hate.
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Honestly haven’t really seen any evidence that NOED is more powerful than Haunted Grounds in terms of increasing kill rates. It gets a lot of complaints because “the downs aren’t deserved” according to some survivors but regardless both it and Haunted Grounds typically give one or two downs when triggered. Haunted Grounds does it earlier, which can be good for building momentum, while NOED can act as a hedge to turn a 0-2 k match into a 1-3 k match potentially. Haunted Grounds is a bit more likely to actually go off compared to NOED since survivors typically cleanse hex totems as soon as they find them during the match while NOED doesn’t trigger if either all the totems are cleansed or the generators are never completed. On the other hand NOED gives a slight speed boost so that compensates a bit for that weakness.
The only issue I’ve heard that seems like it might be a reasonable complaint is how NOED is the only Exposed perk that doesn’t alert survivors they are Exposed. I’d be ok if that was changed, and then if it made NOED too weak giving it a slight improvement to compensate. But either way, in terms of its overall effectiveness, I doubt it’s too powerful or it would have probably been nerfed already considering the extremely vocal group of survivors who complain about it all the time.
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Because I don't agree with you that means nothing. I'm survivor main and I have no problem with noed. No swf as you think. I'm not crying over things like others. This game is very hard as killer anyway and you are asking to nerf killer's perks lol
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I have a question for the people who think that NOED is unfair and that cleansing it/doing bones isn't a reasonable counter to it - and I'll even ignore the other counter of just leaving as soon as you see it pop up for the sake of this question.
What makes NOED unfair and undeserved where Devour Hope isn't? They both have extremely similar effects- everyone is Exposed, and NOED has the added benefit of increasing your speed because it's only going to activate in the endgame whereas Devour's extra strength is in the mori capability if you build it up further. Both require you to play a portion of the game with only three perks, both can be undone at any time by the survivor...
Why is NOED the subject of all this debate where Devour isn't?
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My way of playing as a solo is that i just adept to the other survivors.
If they go down fast i will try to do either saves and healing, but if someone else is doing that then I'll be on gens.
I see people on gens?
Then I'll be either totem hunting (and on a gen if 1 is close to it) or I'll be keeping the killer busy.
If i see multiple people running around looking for totems (you can tell as they ignore gens) then I'll be on gen duty or what i described in the first option.
I don't mind dying and will sacrifice myself for the team, but even that doesn't happen a lot.
Most of the times its a 3 or 4 man escape or i get out alone.
And yes there are definitely games where i get outplayed and won't escape, but that's just the way of the game.
If i get hit by noed, i can only laugh about it especially if it's a terrible killer.
Simply because we as a team just messed up and i was on the receiving end at that point.
Rpd should just get removed or reworked entirely, that's a map that doesn't fit and belong in dbd at all.
It's a terrible map for both sides.
Midwich the spawns are not that terrible if you ask me.
But perks like counterforce, small game or hunch can help massively with that, or even a map. 😉
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i've thought the same thing, but have assumed it's because you know your exposed and you can cleanse it earlier.
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You actually don't- Devour doesn't announce itself until you hit someone with three stacks.
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I completely agree with you on what you just said except for 1 part at the end.
No perk tells you in advance what it is.
Hunted ground you only know it if you cleanse it.
Devour you will only know it if you're hit.
Ruin only if you have touched a gen.
Toth only if you touch a totem.
Undying only if you are near a dull totem.
So no perk will tell you something in advance until you interact with it, so it does exactly what other hex perks does imo.
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hm...ya know...i've always wondered about that, but i guess i decided that it did.
aw well, atleast the you can cleanse i earlier point stands.
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