Revert Deathslinger Nerf
It should have never happened in the first place. Either compensate the nerf with a good buff (or a secondary ability) or just revert the changes. Playing Deathslinger right now is like a try not to have a mental breakdown challenge.
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Don't revert it, improve it. Most of what they did was necessary (excluding the TR increase, that one feels suspect to me), but it wasn't handled particularly well.
Make him ADS slightly quicker (without it being the same speed as the old quickscope, I think there's a middle ground that can be found there), make him 115%, and possibly replace the TR increase with a lullaby radius? If not, maybe some more reliable TR addons. After that, Slinger would be in a much better spot.
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Agree entirely
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At that point you might as well just make a new killer if your going to completely change his identity and kit.
Deathslinger's idenity was before being gutted out of the character:A stealthy low range ambush killer with his small TR and low overall range and even lower effective range.
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ranged killers are balanced on 110%. Making him 115% won't solve his actual problem which is having ######### gun.
90% of their negative killer changes apart from nurse have been disaster so much so that just about every single one of their changes will eventually need to be reverted.
he needs revert, pretty much all of them do. killers would be in way better place.
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Lullaby is often worse than TR, because you can't get rid of it. Depends if it is like Huntress (loud) or Trickster (silent)...
Quick-scape should have never been nerfed. That was main thing that made him unique compare to other ranged killers. They should just nerf ADS fake and it would be fine.
Like what is reason he shouldn't have that? He has limitations that other ranged killers don't. Probably worst is: he can't down over most pallets.
Then there is just long list why he is worse Huntress...
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Really?
Plague, Nemesis, PH and Artist are what?
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I think it'd be fine if his lullaby was just the sound of the rattlesnakes right off the very beginning of his terror radius. Besides that I agree with you in everything else. Quick-scope was his unique feature which rewarded you for trying risky shots and received an equal punishment for failing. I'd be fine if they even extended the time it takes to exit ADS because it was absurd how easily you could cancel ADS to go for an M1.
In his current state, Deathslinger really feels hopeless in safe loops and he has very little on his favour. I will never understand the decision behind these changes... he wasn't strong in most situations and large maps were horrible for him. People hated zoning and he is now completely dependant on zoning and bloody sensitivity makes him so insufferable to play as.
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Artist is in a weird spot as you could argue that the lag time between dire crow spawn and dire crow firing sort of evens out the 115% movement speed. She's not laggy, but her power is.
Nemesis isn't exactly what I'd call a ranged killer.
Pyramid Daddy's like Artist, his power is a bit laggy to compensate him moving normally.
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People are overreacting about the Deathslinger nerf. I've played him and he is still good, he just takes more skill. The only really impactful change is the terror radius change, and I think they should have given him a lullaby instead, which could be whistling.
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Rattlesnake sounds would be super cool tho, so I am fine with that.
Thing is: his ADS mechanic sucks a lot, any FPS players can tell you that. Weird sensitivity, lower FOV, it's just really clumsy to use. If you let players to quick-scope, then you don't have to fix ADS mechanic, because noone cares about it.
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Don't really know what you mean laggy. I have never had issue with PH and he can get his range quite far with add-ons, can hit throught walls and multiple survivors, also second power... So PH is way better than Deathslinger and he is 115%.
Same for Plague.
Nemesis is kinda hard to compare here, because he has shorter range and his power is often denied over any loop (just crouch).
Not sure about Artist tho, I played only few games with her on PTB.
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By laggy i mean there is a short amount of time that you can't just shoot instantly.
When Artist sets a dire crow there is you can't instantly fire it, it has to exist for a second and the more you put out the longer it takes for you to be able to both fire and replenish her crows.
Pyramid Daddy's gotta dig his sword into the ground. Again its like a second, but it isn't instant.
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Have you played Artist?
It's also not instant thing, it also takes time for her before she can activate and also before she can fire them.
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I'd agree with the commenter above who suggested something like rattlesnake sounds; subtle but audible, so aware survivors can react but unaware survivors can still be caught off guard.
Quick scope was obviously a problem, that argument's been had to death.
Not all ranged killers are 110%, and not all 110% killers are ranged. That's the general trend but it doesn't always work one to one- the 110% is usually to compensate for either range or lethality, like Hag traps letting her have a lethal presence further than her melee range without actually being a ranged killer.
I think Slinger should be 115 because his range is already pretty low, and the lethal range is even lower. He needs an edge in loops that isn't quickscoping, which was always unfair, and I think making him move at regular killer speed (on top of a slightly faster ADS) would be the way to go.
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That's literally what i said... I missed an 't, but why is my bad, but your reading comprehension is should have covered for that based on everything else in the post.
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"You can instantly fire it"
Yeah, from that it looked like you were talking about PH etc. and artist is supposed to be different. I don't really get why you get angry, when you are the one who made that mistake...
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Why would you assume I'm angry? What context is there to make the assumption of anger?
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"Quick scope was obviously a problem, that argument's been had to death."
How was it a problem?
It's not hit-scan (projectile has travel time) you had time to react on longer distance even before that nerf. Fake ADS was a problem, that was enough to nerf.
Right now anyone who is looking behind can react to it and I think that is a problem when his projectile has super tiny hitbox.
You either have to make hitbox bigger, so it is easier to hit (Huntress), or somehow fix ADS mechanic, which is just terrible to use, I have no idea how it can be saved tho.
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So, once he hit a certain range, you actually didn't have time to dodge, but even aside from that: You only have the ability to dodge if he fires. If he repeatedly raises his rifle but doesn't fire, you have two options: dodge and weave, thus losing distance and letting him M1 you easier, or run straight, thus making yourself a very easy target for when he does fire.
That's it. That's the reason. It's been talked about to death, I'm not saying anything new here.
Now that they have removed that, though, I wouldn't be against something like a larger hitbox or an improved sensitivity for the ADS.
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yeah, not really angry.
"why is my bad"
because it's your mistake...
"your reading comprehension is should have covered"
this part just seems kinda you are trying to shift the blame...
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Yeah, that's why I said I would nerf ADS fake (even more), so DS if forced to commit on his shots...
Problem is that his ADS mechanic just completely changes how your camera moves and it sucks to use. It wasn't a problem before, because noone used it, it is huge problem now and main reason why I stopped playing him.
What might work is some form of hipfire, so you can use it when survivor is closer to you, which is main problem with it atm.
I would love to see % on how much is each killer played. That would be so funny to see...
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You offer: Revert his quick scope nerf.
I offer: Happy feelings and wanting to play him more.
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Seems like a far better fix for Deathslinger is to improve his ADS mechanic, then. Right now his problem isn't that he's too weak, he's in basically the same spot if you play him differently, but rather that he feels far, far too clunky. The rifle takes three years to raise, the turn speed while it's up is super sluggish, he's slow and frustrating...
Make him 115, speed up the ADS raise and turn sensitivity, making a few other tweaks here and there, and he'll feel better to play.
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Sure, I would take that.
I wouldn't say he is in same spot, he is definetly worse. Some tiles got worse and shooting through windows is way harder, shooting through gaps got impossible.
If they don't like faster ADS there is option to make projectile faster, with that it is actually about your aim. You see he will shoot you and try to make it harder, but you can't really dodge it -> like Nemesis.
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I don’t know how good or bad he is now statistically, but personally I don’t like his turning speed while aiming, it just feels super slow. If they increased his turning speed so you could better aim while moving around corners or adjust for juking, etc, I think his rifle would feel more fun to use, and assuming he actually is underperforming now could help on that front too.
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Deathslinger's problem is that there's no one thing he does better than the rest of the cast anymore.
Now... he used to have things he did the best. Deathslinger used to be in an interesting position where he was the _________ killer who didn't put all his eggs in 1 basket. And you could fill that blank in with Ranged, Stealth, or Split Pressure depending on how you built him. If you really didn't want to get wrecked by map RNG while trying to use one of those 3 play styles, Deathslinger was your guy.
He was a Ranged killer without a preshot wind up so indoor maps weren't painful, who also didn't announce his presence to literally everyone always with a lullaby, and could use M1 based perks.
He was a Stealth killer who had range and anti loop, meaning that loading into wide open maps where stealth just doesn't work like Shelter Woods or Rotten Fields isn't a recipe for having an absolute garbage game like it is for Myers or Ghostface.
He was a Split Pressure killer who isn't as hurt by Survivors splitting up and didn't need to rely on basic M1s for downs. In some ways, that made him better at that play style than Legion or Plague. Or at least it was debatable who does it better overall.
His nerfs deleted almost all of that for him. The TR nerf ruined his ability to play Stealth or Split Pressure. The ADS nerf ruined his ability to still use his ranged ability on indoor maps. I've said it once, I'll say it again... at the moment the only reason to pick Deathslinger is either because you really like the Cowboy asthetics he's got going on or you're sick of playing the killer who does his job better and want some variety. That's not a healthy place for any playable character to be.
Revert all the changes other than the gun lowering delay so spamming ADS doesn't work. Nerf how fast he can walk backwards while reeling to match how fast he can walk forward to add some counterplay to the reeling mechanic. There we go. A much more fun to play and fun to play against Deathslinger.
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18 meter is not low range. 18 meter diameter is massive. His lethality was among the highest the game. He could shoot, recover with 8 stacks of stbfl and than imminently shoot to knock 2 health states in span of 10 seconds. that's among fastest non-instant downs in the entire game. Pair with this with the fact that he had 16 meter TR with M&A, survivors who did not react in time to his terror radius tune would quickly go down.
His edge at loops IS quickscoping. In fact this is ONLY redeeming quality along with lower TR. It wasn't unfair either, it took skill to land his shots consistently and survivors could have very tricky movement that made it difficult to land his shot. Also his window zoning was not even confirmed hits because of chain durability. Pallet hits were not confirmed either because other killers e.g huntress could throw hatchets in places where survivor is bottleneck such as space between the pallet. He had make reads as his gun has narrow hitbox and in many cases, he had to shoot before survivor got to the pallet such that he prevents survivor from dropping, else he wouldn't get downs.
115% m/s is lazy balancing. he doesn't need it. he just needs revert. its that simple really. you even agree upon it because your literally admit that his ADS is a problem.
Unfair is god pallets in the game, pallets where when pallet dropped, a vast majority of killer have to break it with zero gameplay value. Unfair is holding W where a vast majority of the killers lack the tools to injure a survivor chaining safe tile after tile. that is far more unfair than what quickscope ever was.
The other killers are not reliable. they're more situational. ranged =/ 110%.
reliability and dependency on power affects whether killer needs 115% or 110%. None of killer named have reliable powers. Ironically all of them could be 110% but they'd need remove all their drawbacks. Plague could be ranged 110% if her ability was corrupt puke was only ability and it was permanent etc.
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Thats false. You literally always had time to react. ADS time used to be .50 seconds. Firing time was .15. Full time to fire as fast as you possibly can with old quick scope was .65 seconds. Average human reaction time is more than half that. Most gamers average reaction time is WELL more than half that.
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You could react, but your character would not move in time. I don't think it should be reactable tho.
It's easy now...
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That's me having horrible proofreading skills on my posts. I meant to say "which is my bad", but my brain apparently can't handle writing responses at 8 in the morning. Holy crap, no wonder this devolved. See, now I am angry, at myself.
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Alright, ######### happens. Good day
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Let's not just "fix" every slower Killer by making them a 115%, I think there are more creative ways to make him better than just changing his movement speed.
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Alright, tell me how?
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Well, you could always mess with cooldowns because I think they are currently too punishing. I also saw an idea where he could use his spear gun for map traversal by shooting at objects and just reeling himself to them at high speeds, which would be hilarious. Also just having more impactful and good add-ons would really help, since add-ons like "move 1% faster while ADSing" are laughable.
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reeling himself doesn't fit at all to him. He is old guy with screwed leg. That should stay in Attack on Titan.
His core gameplay is clumsy and he is just bad overall, add-on doesn't fix it unless they get super broken, which is just bad idea to do for any killer.
I don't think you understand reasons why everyone stopped playing Deathslinger.
They tried your idea with cooldown, at least when chain break and it's nice, but not really good enough to make him valid again.
So I will just copy-paste from different post:
115% to fix bigger TR
This will nerf hold W against him
Faster projectile speed and slightly bigger hitbox to fix slower ADS
Survivors will still know you are going to shoot them, but if you miss it's on you and not because of slow and small projectile
Increase sensitivity (turning speed) while aiming to fix ADS mechanic
Shooting anything close to you is terrible now and it just feels bad to use
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I don't know how nerfing a B tier killer was "necessary". His ADS time is still fast enough that you can't really react to his shot. Everything the change did was make Monitor a must on him instead of a strong perk, and make him feel clunky af to play as.
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If you can't react to it, then go on cranial nerve examination...
It was possible even before nerf on 10+ meters, but there was that issue that everyone just faked ADS.
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Quickscoping and ADS faking were a problem, and were totally legitimate targets for changing. BHVR handling something poorly doesn't magically make that something no longer an issue that warranted handling to begin with.
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You can't really react to it, it travels at 40m/s so it runs through max range in less than half a second. You can predict when he is going to shoot though, that's why fake ADS had to go. Everything else was unnecessary.
Also cranial nerves are not really related to reflexes lol.
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ADS faking was a problem, quickscope was really not.
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They were part and parcel of the same problem. If Deathslinger had never been able to quickscope, the free zoning he'd have gotten from ADS faking never would've been possible because people would've had time to react to the shot when he did commit to it. As it was, you were stuck in a lose-lose scenario where he'd keep partially raising the gun, and you'd have two choices: Dodge, thus losing distance if he doesn't shoot, or run straight, thus making yourself an easy target for when he does shoot.
They weren't ever fully separate issues, and they both warranted changing.
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First part was a joke, but on longer range it was definetly possible. You didn't have to really dodge, just side-step was enough to miss if he aimed at center of your body. That projectile is really small.
Dead Hard on reaction was 100% possible.
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Dodging was more related to prediction than reaction imo. Survivors already moved with side stepping against Slinger.
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The counterplay to quickscope was prediction, which was nullified by fake ADS. Quickscope itself has counterplay.
"Dodge, thus losing distance if he doesn't shoot, or run straight, thus making yourself an easy target for when he does shoot." Funny how you don't mention the monstrous distance you could make if you predicted a Slinger shot and he missed. You just had to alternate between dodging moments and running straight moments, just like with Nurse you're not going to double back at every loop.
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That’s not quickscope that you described, that’s ads spam which people have agreed is a problem
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Devs???????????????????
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"Prediction", by which you mean "guessing and getting lucky".
If that's satisfying gameplay for you, then I'm not knocking that for you specifically, but people tend to put a lot of stock into "prediction" as though it's in any way different to or separate from guessing.
The quickscope is what made the ADS spam function. If he could ADS spam but it takes a second before he can fire, then the free zoning and lose/lose situations wouldn't have occurred because survivors would have time to react and dodge when the rifle is raised for more than half a second.
"People have agreed is a problem" isn't super relevant here. People have agreed that the quickscope is a problem too, this argument's been had for a long time.
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Deathslinger is fun to use, but you can't hope for easy win. Not even just a win. Yeah, if you bring 4 teachable perks from other killers, hook offering, know the map, mandatory tunnel survivors and never miss a shot - he got like 50/50 to make 3K.
He should be named "Slowslinger" because he's literally slow:
*Moving speed - slow.
*Map control - hope to guard 3 gen.
*Aiming - slow.
*Reeling - slow.
*Injuring survivors - slow. Seriously, Legion can makes 4 deep wounds in 20 sec. Deathslinger barely can make one.
*Reload - slow.
And it's hard to compensate it by add-ons. Guess he got his leg broken too much. That shot into a knee was really necessary?
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No, I mean prediction. The same way you have to predict which direction a Huntress is going to throw a hatchet, which direction a Nurse is going to blink or which direction a Blight is going to rush. You predict when he's going to shoot.
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But you have actual information to go on for those? There are visual cues, as well as the audio cue from Huntress- they have to be using their power in the direction they're looking. There is absolutely no cue for when a Deathslinger would actually shoot versus ADS faking, it's just a guess.
Maybe you'll guess right! Maybe the Slinger would just miss! But is it really good design for it to be that up to chance?
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