Getting rid of tunneling and camping will fix this game for both sides
If people really want this game to be better then they need to start demanding tunneling and camping be removed. Not only is it completely unfair and unfun to survivors but it also is the reason kills have to be weaker then they should be because they have to incredibly powerful strats to abuse. Get rid of these strategies and killers can be buffed to be how strong they should be
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I mean if you do that without fixing the massive novel sized issue killers have with the game, it's a sure fire way to quadruple the already 5+ minute survivor queues.
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Play killer for 24 hours
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This does fix the problem killers have though. You get rid of these things then killers can be buffed massively to actually be powerful again without having to abuse unfair strats
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I have. I play a lot of killer and I have gotten to red ranks multiple times. You don’t need to camp and tunnel to do it
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And how exactly do you propose to "get rid of tunnelling"? What even is your definition of tunnelling?
And do any survivors ever remember that the killer can only see total hooks, not hookstates?
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Let the killers see hooksates then? No one would complain about that and it should be a thing to begin with. Also I consider tunneling the killer immediately going after a survivor that got unhooked and only going after them while ignoring every other survivor
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Your lying because any person who really plays killer knows tunneling and camping are made up survivor words.
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I’m not lying but I guess you want to believe I am because my experience in the game doesn’t fit your narrative of “survior bad killer good”. I am trying to help both sides here and you are trying to kill the game for both sides for no reason by acting like this isn’t a problem
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Cool. Do that first, then we'll talk.
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What is tunneling? What is camping? How precisely do you get rid of it?
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Also, "killers have to be weak because they will abuse the unfair strategy of killing the weakest link first" is absurd.
This bizarre "it's not fair you're not killing me how I want to be killed" logic...
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If you massively buff killers first every single survivor will quit the game. You need to do both at the same time. In one patch you need to get rid of camping and tunneling while also buffing killers
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OP let's play a little thought experiment out. Let's assume we magically implement this idea, when a survivor is unhooked they literally phase out of existence for the killer and cannot be interacted with by the killer in any way until another survivor is hooked. What 'massive buffs' would balance this out? You have a super abstract statement that has no plan or details of implementation outside of a vague hand-wavey 'big buffs comin!'. Additionally I want to point out that many survivors feel killers are already WAY too oppressive in many cases(blight, nurse spirit for mobility killers, Pyramid Head, Deathslinger, Pin Head, Nemsis, Artist for 'unfun'). How would you buff them or bring other killers up so its not even more exaggerated where a chase lasts all of 2 seconds to balance out survivors getting a guaranteed 12 hook states spread out evenly?
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the whole problem with camping and tunneling is that is doesn’t allow people to play the game at all and even if you do escape you still depip because the killer refused to interact with anyone other then the person being camped
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Boon's have made this worse, im not going to let you run off for your free self care. Prepare to be tunneled and Proxy camped.
I had 3 CoH on Ormond one match, The survs couldnt understand why i was tunneling and camping.
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Being hooked and killed is part of the game, just as much as holding M1 on a gen whilst the killer chases someone else.
"Someone gets the short straw" is insufficient reason to ban a tactic.
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Do you have any ideas for an anti-camping and anti-tunneling system that can't be abused and will work consistently? And do you have any buf ideas for killers to compensate? Because as of right now, camping and tunneling is a necessary evil.
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I mean at this point is it an evil exactly? Because more stuff gets added that makes both strategies more appealing
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Killers tunneling+camping is not THE problem. It is a symptom of the real disease. Which is survivors are too powerful when they know how to play. The entire reason killers tunnel and camp is unless your using the 2 meta killers it is impossible to get 12 hooks before they repair 5 gens. Unless they screw up. Which decent survivors never do. This game is designed to only function if the survivors make mistakes or do not gen rush. It doesn't matter how well you play killer. If both sides perform optimally the killer will always lose because they are out numbered.
Then the devs keep balancing the game around newbie survivors. Giving them even more tools to win. They need to put their foot down and tell survivors "git gud. Your not suppose to be able to beat the killer in a 1v1". You can't tell me survivors are not the favored child. Ruin+Undying was a thing for like 3 months before they nerfed it. DS took 4 years! Last chapter more killers were nerfed yet boons were not touched.
Most killers actually don't like tunneling because they feel the same if that was done to them. But they do it because they need to remove someone asap to stand a chance at high mmr. It's very common for 3 gens to pop by the time you can down 1 person. Killers need a snow ball effect to recover from that.
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exactly this.
A mechanic that punishes so called tunneling and camping will only make this worse.
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Getting rid of camping and tunneling would require the game to be re-designed.
Are you prepared for that?
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They tried to fix camping twice and guess what happend the people complaining about camping made sure to abuse the anti camping mechanics. That right survivors started abusing it so it got removed you complain about something and when the try and help out the make sure it won't work by completely abusing it.
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I mean, I don't camp or tunnel anyways, so I'm down.
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You do realize that what he said basically amounts to "then we can make other changes", right? Once a killer can't force someone out of the game in two minutes, we can make all kinds of changes that would make pounding out all 5 gens in three-four minutes impossible. Sounds like something pretty good for the state of the game, doesn't it?
But as long as a killer can force someone of of the game in two minutes, survivors need to be able to pound out the gens to get a chance for some of them to escape.
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do you play killer, like at all? For your “no tunneling” idea to work, killer needs to rotate through each survivor equally or waste whatever X amount of time you arbitrarily determine to not be tunneling before downing that survivor again. With current gens speeds, this is mathematically impossible. Are you OK buffing killers enough to where they can all reliably find and down a survivor every 30 seconds? Because that’s basically what it would take
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You don’t need to buff killers to end chases that fast if gens speeds are nerfed too
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If Gen Speed and Perks like Dead Hard would be nerfed than more Killers would stop tunneling
The reason so man Killers are tunneling is because it is Hard to do something against a Good Team u need to have 1 vs 3 to even have a Chance
How to win when u get ur First Hook After 30 seconds on a Start of a Game but 2 - 3 Gens are already finished ?
Also there is a difference btw tunneling and Hard tunneling Why i should ignore a Survivor who is always Running in to my Face?
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You definitely don't speak for anyone but yourself when you attempt to justify scummy behavior. There are plenty of killers that camp and tunnel because it's easy, effective, and upsetting to the other side. Let's not pretend this community isn't filled with toxic people that get off on making other people miserable.
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The devs have stated numerous times that tunneling and camping IS NOT scummy or bad behavior. Personally I would call teabagging and flashlight clicking bad behavior but there are no rules against that either. I never said there aren't killer that tunnel and camp to be toxic. Not once did I say that. I only said there are plenty of people who understand it sucks when your tunneled out of the game yet they do it because they want to stand a chance at winning too.
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Half of my "tunnelling" happens because I forgot who was actually hooked and just went after scratch marks.
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Well, clearly they do feel it's bad for the game since they're looking to fix it. I'm perfectly okay with making it impossible to spam click or teabag, or making each click use a minimum of one charge so it drains the flashlight bad to do it. I dislike flashlights as a whole.
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Cheap tactics needed to beg for some kills cause, if they know what are doing, the game is extremely survivor side. Perks also help against that, only facecamp is bad, boring begging pressure for survivor mistakes, but game is often alredy loss for killer.
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at all, you only need to do those things when survivors are strong, normally agaisnt your average potatoes playing solo q youll be fine getting like 8-9 hooks easily at least even playing fair, if playing unfair is almost guaranteed win unless you are playing a very weak killer or made manymistakes.
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you need to have your account locked to killer for a few days after making a statement like this.
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if you're being tunneled than you are playing the game and not holding M1 which is the most boring part of the game right??
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I wouldnt mind a perk like "For multiple teabags or flashlight clicks the entity impales said survivor"
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That's really impossible and you should instead be asking for a sequel game.
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Ah yes. Remove Camping and Tunneling,
While we're at it, Lets remove Hooks entirely,
...Seriously, This game is purely Survivor sided and this is what we come down to? Camping and tunneling Removed...
i have no words,
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I would argue camping and tunneling are two of the main problems this game has. They aren't just a symptom of the real disease. Even if this game was perfectly balanced, there would still be people that resort to camping and tunneling because they don't like to be beaten by better players.
Camping and tunneling need to be nerfed, but not without also addressing the reason why camping and tunneling is sometimes a necessity of course. Which is survivors short objective time and/or bad map design.
I still don't believe that no killer has a chance against a top level survivor team, but of course, it takes a strong killer and a balanced map for the killer to have a chance of winning as well. And arguably most of the times tunneling and camping as a strategy. And if survivors all stack up on second chance perks and items, things can look pretty grim, even for strong killers. But on the other hand, I also don't believe that there are as many unwinnable matches for killers as some people would argue. Some matches can just feel unwinnable, because as killer you sometimes don't get much feedback on what you could have done better, and just a few mistakes or outplays of a survivor can have a huge impact on a match.
I also don't think you can generalise one role here is the "favored child". Problem is, at lower mmr, killers are arguably stronger than survivors. And balancing around those ranks is also important in this game. Not to mention that yes, DS got nerfed after 4 years. Though to be fair it got nerfed many times, the last nerf was 4 years later. On the other hand, Mettle of Man got nerfed after three months as well.
This game honestly needs some big, fundamental changes to become more balanced and more fun for all ranks. And I am not sure if the devs will manage to do so.
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I think if they first buff all killers to arguably the level of Spirit or even Blight, then it's the queue times for killers that will most likely increase. And that noticeably. Way too much I would guess.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Removing player agency is always bad game design. The most the devs can do to prevent camping is to either incentivize or disincentive it, both of which they are already doing.
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After studying the forums in detail, the desired gameplay for fun is apparently not holding M1 on generators because that's boring, being chased because that's fun, except when your entire game is being chased because the Killer is only giving you attention as somehow that isn't fun, absolutely not being hooked or slugged, and not going against any killer that has anti-loop powers in loops or anti-chase powers in chase or some sort of trap/zoning killer in a confined environment.
Or, apparently, "fun" is defined exclusively as being able to loop killers around windows and pallets all day. Anything that ends in downing is extra unfun, and doing generators is unfun on its own. No word on if teabag and clicky clicky is supposed to be fun.
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even 1 CoH placed somewhere around center of the map can just completely destroy killer
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Killers actually acting as if tunneling and camping are not major things is an issue.
I get the state of the game isn't the best for killers but see tbh, killer mains are just unbearable lately with the non stop face camping and tunneling just cause they sweat the game out. (At certain points I get it, gen rushed, having a bad game, late game. I get it but any other time, just no).
So much has been nerfed and changed over the last year to make survivors no where near as op, once more swf is the issue but killers group survivors collectively and complain they have nothing in this game, which in my opinion is utter bs and an exaggeration.
They're major issues, but still at this point I'm not shocked if I'm getting face camped or tunneled down at 5 gens. Yano, cause they're 'strats'.
I actually used to main killer for a long time and still play it time to time. It's defo not easy but it's not as bad as it's made out to be, unless you're a sweat and want 3k's or 4k's all the time.
If the issues were somewhat helped, it would promote fair gameplay. Which is fun overall for everyone but maybe wouldn't help the balance for killers especially against optimal swfs.
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There's that word again. "Fair".
What is unfair about tunnelling (and, presumably, camping once you remove the "it's very tedious" part)? From a gameplay perspective. Someone loses first; it happens. It's like the guy in an FPS deathmatch who spends the entire game getting headshot immediately.
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Why do survivors get to complete their objective fast and it be a good thing but when killers do the same its a bad thing?
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4v1 and the 4 screams louder.
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Let me ask you this. Do you think i have fun camping as killer? It's boring standing around and waiting for someone to come try and unhook but it's how I'm forced to play when 3 gens pop in 2 minutes. If they remove that killers won't even have a chance.
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See it's people like you I don't get at all.
How is it fair? Why try and manipulate it to seem like there is no fair way to play either side when there is.
It's common sense.
Justifying camping or tunneling when it's not needed or survivors justifying bullying a killer etc... is just ######### weird bro.
I'm not gonna sit here and argue with hardcore killer mains that cry about every aspect of the game, a lot of you are worse than survivor mains now lmao
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You don't get that I don't magically understand how you've concluded a tactic is unfair?
Because the only reasoning that seems to be presented is "You haven't given the people who you're told to kill equal attention and time to do things", but that doesn't make any sense as a claim that a tactic is unfair. It's not cheating, it's not playing dirty. It can be indistinguishable from random chance or opportunism. And it's completely antithetical to the notion of a competitive multiplayer experience to tell one side their job is to literally play inefficiently.
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