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Perk Idea: Reverse BT
When you get farmed from the hook, the perk activates and gives you the BT status.
Could we get something like this for solo Q? Pretty sure it would become meta with all the farming team mates who don't even know how to take a hit.
Comments
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better idea: how about we start fixing quality of life stuff like this for both sides with base game mechanics instead of bandaid perks that then feel like a must have to run in SoloQ/as non-S tier killer etc.
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I'm all for that but that seems quite impossible at this point.
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i know. But it should still be said while making such a suggestion so the devs/mods know what we actually need.
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Yes, I want this.
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Okay, if survivors equip both Borrowed Time and "Reserve Borrowed Time", and unhook someone in front of the killer.
What killer needs to do?
Hit the unhooker? Unless you are exposed... if not he will mandatory tunnel the unhoked person, as it's easy to track (blood, noise) and have one less health state than unhooking person.
And if you don't have Borrowed Time?
Congratulations, you just reversed anti tunneling perk into a greifing one!
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Boo hoo, just dont tunnel.
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They could just make so BT also protect the user of the said perk.
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This is for the ones who get farmed without BT tho. Idc if the person who unhooked me gets endurance or not, I just dont want to get farmed and then not being able to do anything about it.
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Instead of creating a reverse BT: just make it so BT protects someone that you unhook but also YOURSELF when you are being unhooked.
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Isn’t Borrowed Time one of the most effective, popular perks already? Why would you want to dramatically buff it?
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For solo q quality of life... the game is hell currently; way more than the killer's gameplay from my experience.
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Ok, but there are other ways to buff solo survivors than buffing a perk that is already probably overused relative to everything else.
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On the contrary, i think buffing it a bit wouldn't change much for killers who plays against good survivors... but would improve solo q experience a bunch.
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You don’t think making both the person rescued AND the person rescuing them immune to damage isn’t a huge buff? Basically you’re saying the killer can do nothing to defend against a rescue at all for 12 seconds after it happens, that’s a massive buff.
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When i play killer i always have to play around it already. This is why i think that making it work for the user of the perk doesn't change anything when i play killer... but improve my solo q gameplay on another hand. So i'm all for it.
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For your information that is how the perk originally worked but only once per trial iirc.
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I missworded what i was trying to say. Sorry. I was saying that BT should also protect the user of the perk when he is being unhooked; rather than creating another perk for it.
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You play around it by not hitting the person pulled off the hook but you can still hit the person rescuing them. That’s a major, major difference if you can’t hit the rescuer.
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Alternatively, rework bt into only working on yourself when you get unhooked
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I'm not talking about protecting the rescuer. I'm saying that BT should protect the user of the perk when he is being unhooked: so that he doesn't depend on his teammate to have BT to protect him.
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Yeah I know and I want to tell you that was done and somewhere along the way the devs thought it would be too strong to leave the killer only with lose lose options and nerfed bt. (Patch 1.9.2 to be precise)
Survivor still Bodyblock with the endurance effect instead of trying to reach safety most of the time.
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Old BT was protecting the rescuer when he rescued someone... i'm just saying that BT should protect yourself when you are getting unhooked. When you play against good survivors, they always use BT anyway... it doesn't change anything.
Edit: Patch 1.9.2 doesn't protect yourself when you are unhooked... it only protected the survivor you unhooked for 20 seconds.
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Ah okay now I get.
You mean you have the perk and either
you unhook someone and they are protected
or
you yourself get unhooked and protect yourself.
Okay that seems like a good change. But maybe but should make the unhooked lose collision so protecting the unhooker with the endurance effect is no longer viable.
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Yeah, sorry... was trying my best to explain myself.
I'd be fine with that too (collision remove), since it would greatly help against bubba.
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There is nothing you can do to 'buff solo Q experience' that will not also buff SWF an equal or greater amount.
They explicitly stated that they are not interested in different game modes, which means that SWF will never get its own queue. They've specifically said that any buff to solo that does not also buff SWF will be seen as a SWF nerf and will not be done.
The game, as it stands currently, will ALWAYS be harder for survivors who do not form groups before queuing up. If you want SoloQ to improve, you have to push for a change to the game's core design dogma - not wishlist for some new buff that may help solo but will ultimately only make SWF an even more trivial experience than it already is.
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Organised SWF already use BT, rework BT so the user of the perk is protected won't change their gameplay that much anyway then.
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On the contrary: organized SWF can just make sure the designated looper has BT and the others are free to use gen run perks exclusively. That way, if the looper DOES get caught, they get to eat the BT and dash off to start the loop all over again. And if somebody else gets caught, they become designed savior, with BT to protect the Gen team. You've effectively freed up 3 per slots on the SWF team for CoH, item recharging, Adrenaline, whatever.
Would it be super strong for Solo? Yeah, sure. Would it be way better for SWF? Of course. Everything is better with SWF. The game is fundamentally not balanced around organized groups with comms.
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Ah yes, when you play swf and have four BTS... what doesn't that change? Nothing. When they bring 2 BTS... what does it change? Nothing, since they're bringing two BTS just to make sure that someone can make the save safely. Its not just because SWF have better coms and players, that you shouldn't do anything about solo q who are half of the f**king players.
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Ah, ok, that makes more sense. When you said “also protect the user” I thought you meant protect them when they are using the perk to unhook people.
Yeah, that wouldn’t be too much of a change in that case, I still don’t know that a perk as popular as Borrowed Time needs a buff though.
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I cant denny that geting farmed in solo Q sounds awfull, as a killer i do have seen plenty of times ridiculously unsafe hooks wich mind you, make me feel bad for the hooked player...but i just had an idea that could be interesting.
Right now, hiting a survivor awards 300BP to a killer, doesnt matter who you hit thats what you get, but what if in a hook situation, by ignoring the unhook survivor and chasing the unhooker, killers where awarded 600BP (twice as much), furthermore, if the killer hooks that same survivor its awarded instead of 200BP, its awarded 400 (double again), this system would entice heavily killers to rotate survivors (while at the same time not penalizing them, also preventing it to be an absolute must as there will be situations where the killer will simply have to take out someone as fast as posible). The system also would have a fail safe. The first hooked survivor doesnt grant any bonus, after that the other3 survivors, as long as they are hit and hooked in any order will grant the bonus. When the last survivor its hooked the bonus its reseted, meaning the next survivor its hooked ONLY wrants the regular amount of BP for atacks and hooks.
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So Survivors can run even more second chance Perks? Maybe buff SoloQ by giving it reasonable buffs not this
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But then what makes Pig special? :P
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No one is asking for a new Q. I'm asking for a perk that helps me against getting farmed. This wouldnt help SWF only, this would help anyone who gets farmed from the hook, and wouldnt be a buff to anyone.
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this would be a buff to solo q. maybe you should read one of my first comments on the thread. Yes, we can all have wet dreams about solo q being buffed, but when will that actually happen, if ever?
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What?
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Probably never, if we know the devs, but your idea wouldn't change much. Killers will just wait out the BT timer
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Still better than being farmed and 1 second later being on hook again. At least I could get some time to get to a window or pallet who knows.
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Maybe, but seeing as most Survivors try to take hits, they barely get any distance and get downed shortly after getting unhooked. You'd be among the small percent that'll use those 12 seconds correctly
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I wouldnt be taking a hit if someone farmed me, they can die on the hook for all I care.
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Leave them for all I care, just do gens on the meantime
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Reverse BTs are Pig's schtick. Why make it a perk. ;P
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Nah, award me 2k blood points for going for unhooking and 1k for going for the unhooked survivor. hooking the unhooked gives me 3k bp while hooking the hooked survivor gives me 1k bp
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There's actually a really simple workaround to this, and it's to focus solo improvement changes on increasing the information the game gives you - some basekit auras, perk visibility for teammates, improved HUD coverage for survivors, a ping system or voice chat. Stuff like that. It doesn't buff SWF because they already have this information and it doesn't nerf them because it's not cutting off any of their options.
You're never going to get changes like 'you can't use this perk if you're in a SWF' or 'solo queue players get more perk slots', but it'd be very feasible to give solos an approximation of what SWFs have if BHVR wasn't so married to the idea that this game is supposed to be played blind (even though in practice, that's only what happens in the weakest player bracket.)
SWFs will always have an edge because they can choose their players and won't get random new/useless/self-serving teammates, but the biggest disparity between solo players and SWFs is that the SWFs make informed decisions and the solos don't, so they run the killer into their teammates on gens, three people or zero people go for the save at once, everyone thinks someone else will get Pinhead's box, nobody knows that Bubba's camping, that 90% gen regresses back to nothing, the player without BT races the player with BT to the unhook and beats them to it, etc.
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New survivor perk: Reverse Bear Trap. After being unsafely unhooked and being hooked again within 60 seconds of entering the dying state, press E when adjacent to the player that unhooked you to afflict them with a Reverse Bear Trap. The survivor must pass 3/5/80 tremendously difficult skill checks or begin a countdown that will cause them to be killed once 180/150/120 seconds have passed.
"Lead the killer to my ######### gen now, Meg." -The Lost Tapes: Nea
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RBT? that's just Pig.
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Reverse Borrowed Time.
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sorry, joke.
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Well good news: They put a zillion extremely loud sound tells (Bubba's scream, PH's earth split, Demo's roar, Spirit's whoosh, etc) in the game to give all survivors info. They put a hook counter into the game to give all survivors info. They put an always-on Obsession in to make the killer unsure if somebody has DS. And, at this point, they're just giving survivors free, cross-map aura vision with Pinhead's box.
So it SURE looks like the game's going the way you want it to. And yet, SOMEHOW, solo queue still isn't fun, SWF is still super broken, and Killer gets less and less fun to play with every patch. Real race to the bottom.
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Let's not pretend those crumbs of information you're talking about are anything on what SWFs have.
Solos know:
-When the obsession is being chased
-Everyone's health state: healthy, injured, deeply wounded, downed, hooked, or out of the game
-Where a downed or hooked survivor is
-What hook state each survivor is at
-Certain mapwide or HUD cues give away who the killer is once they start interacting with any survivor (you've alluded to some, but also Deep Wound meaning Legion or Deathslinger, Freddy's sleep timer, Plague's infection, Pinhead's chains, and Twin's Victor-release sound.) By extension, they also get information when certain killers are using their powers (Plague, Oni, and Myers activating their power mode, Artist's crows, chainsaws, Trickster's blades, Ghostface's marked status, Demo's numerous sound cues, Wraith's bell, Deathslinger and Pyramid Head's shots, and screaming giving contextual information vs Doctor or Clown.)
-When a gen gets done and where it was
-Where a boon totem is, and once the totem has been snuffed, that a dull totem exists in that spot (useful for NOED)
-Where the gates are if they're looking in the right direction for a second after the last gen pops
SWFs know all of the above, and:
-What perks and addons everyone is running - important for coordinating flashlight/sabo/BT/Head On/pallet saves, and also for letting players with Unbreakable, DS, Power Struggle, or Deliverance do their thing instead of wasting time on them
-Who the killer is as soon as anyone spots them/hears a unique TR/sees a map prop
-Where the killer is for as long as anyone sees them
-The killer's strategy as long as one player has witnessed it - do they kick gens, do they respect pallets, are they camping, are they patrolling one area to try and create a 3-gen later, do they moonwalk in chase, etc
-When and where the killer is chasing someone, and by extension, when it's completely safe to do something else. The chased player also knows where nearby players are and won't unintentionally run the killer into them.
-That the killer has X perk as soon as anyone has noticed its effects
-What every player is doing at any given time, and by extension, if somebody is doing an important task or if somebody needs to stop what they're doing to do the task
-Which gens are at what progress - good for cleaning up gens that are regressing or someone was chased off of, and also for avoiding 3-gens
-Whether a slugged player is ready to be picked up or not
-Where totems are as soon as anyone spots them
-Where killer traps are as soon as anyone spots them
-Which pallets have been used and which areas of the map aren't good to run to
-Where the gates are as long as anyone knows where they are, and also whether either one is ready or not
It's not comparable. I had a game the other day where I didn't know who the killer was until 1 gen was left because someone else was doing an incredible job looping them and the killer was bad enough to commit. Not that I knew they were being chased, because they weren't the obsession. SWFs can play better because they know what's going on and don't make as many mistakes or inefficient plays as solos do.
I'm not saying it would fix everything, but the game could get a lot better if we weren't stuck in this lopsided triangle where solos < killer < SWF and killer needs to be balanced in two different directions at once. Because historically, devs balance for solo, pretend SWF doesn't exist, and killers just get screwed by it when survivors consistently perform at a level game design never accounted for. If they actually accounted for it, killers could be balanced for comms and we wouldn't have these situations where Pig is overperforming and Pinhead gets everything regarding his box nerfed because solos usually fail to deal with it, when it's trivial for even a casual SWF to keep his chain hunts from ever happening.
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I mean, you're completely correct on all of those points. The Devs DO like to pretend SWF doesn't exist. Or you have people saying "oh actually SWF doesn't really give THAT much info or use or advantage." And the game's NOT balanced for SWF.
But it super doesn't matter. They'll keep putting minor Solo buffs in, keep nerfing killer, keep pretending SWF doesn't exist (and yet needs to be mollycoddled constantly), and keep avoiding any fix that would actually make any meaningful change.
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