New way to o have fun as killer!
Comments
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My bad about that Spirit, I actually didn't notice that last game. I thought there are only 3.
That tournament is talked about a lot in different arguements and often with wrong numbers, so I would like to link it in future, but I will make sure to get my opinions about it in separate comments.
It's kinda interesting take to say game is killer sided, because 4 escape is less likely than 4 kill. I don't consider that being killer sided, just because it would be impossible to make this even chance. You would have to somehow prevent anyone being killed before reaching some number of hooks on everyone and balance around that. I am not saying camping is not valid method to get kills. I just value it differently than actually hooking survivor 3 times, mainly because of killer's time wasted on it. Kill with 1 hooks is just different for me than kill with 3 hooks, that's why I usually prefer to track hooks and not hook stages.
High level viability is kinda hard to prove. Teams usually use lower tier killers only when they are forced by rules and survivors are limited hard in those games. It would be interesting to see tournaments where survivors can use anything they want but play with lower tier killers.
There is still high chance for 1Ks even with that, but I don't believe it would be above 2K average. But as I said, hard to prove when it wasn't done and probably never will be.
But I understand that you don't like my opinions and your post linked, so I will make sure to make it separate, so it is just an information to check for others whenever we talk about that tournament. To make sure data are correct.
EDIT: About Twins, I created stats from OhTofu tournament and Twins got quite a lot of 4Ks, which I really didn't see coming. Survivors were limited tho. So maybe Twins are not as bad, but they are clumsy for sure. I hate that long fatigue.
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Played about 30 games in a row with my new style!Highest bp total for any survivor was 14570 .They had streamers and birthday cake lol.Lowest bp for a survivor 3200!!Made my night!!!
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If you are actually having a blast "playing" that way, you do you. I would at least suggest reading a book or something, and be it while you are standing around in the game.
Honestly it's actually funny, if you are indeed having fun this way I can appreciate the comedy of making those players frustrated with their time in the match. Before the Freddy rework I actually sometimes equipped Rancor and would do nothing all game but follow my Obsession around and swing at them from the Dream World, and only pull them into the Dream World once the last gen popped, to immediately mori them. I did not do that very frequently at all mind you, but I still have to admit it was hilarious to me.
Thanks for understanding. I of course have no right or leverage to tell you to stop quoting me in these contexts, so I do appreciate if you are willing to refrain from doing so.
I'm not saying the game is overall killer-sided because killers are much more favoured to at least still get 1 kill than survivors are to at least still get 1 escape, but that aspect itself is of course killer-sided. It would actually be relatively easy to bring about a state in which survivors are about equally as likely to still get 1 escape even in bad losses, by adjusting the hatch and gate specifics in 1V1 (and 2V1) scenarios. Since killers currently can slug the second-to-last survivor and get 4 minutes slug time (plus hook time thereafter) to find the last survivor without that last survivor having a chance to escape, currently securing a 4k in these scenarios is all but guaranteed. Imagine if the slugged survivor could kill themselves in these scenarios, if survivors had at least equal chances to find the hatch as the killer does, if the gate opening speed would be increased for the last survivor, if gates never spawned on the same side of the map, and so on. Doesn't mean I personally actually want those changes (but some of them could be healthy), I actually am more inclined to want a rework of these endgame scenarios that put the killer and last survivor into a chase for survival, but yeah, from a "balance" perspective a kill/escape range of 1-3 (and 0-4) is objectively more equal than the 1-4 range the game as it is yields.
I agree with you that ideally, the game would be balanced more for the idea of 12 hooking events rather than 12 hook stages, but that is unfortunately not the reality of the game. I do hope the devs will at some point actually pursue a balancing approach concentrating more on hooks rather than merely kills, and decrease the effectiveness of things such as camping and slugging, instead buffing killers' chase strength and map/gen control, and I have advocated for such a balancing approach frequently over the years. But of course, looking at the balance of the game as it is, we do necessarily have to account for things like camping.
It would definitely be interesting to see how all other killers perform in this setting. Though to note, this tournament actually encouraged killers to go for fresh hooks with its point system, so a tournament that actually only weighed kills would be more ideal if we are looking only at kill rates to gauge balance, which is obviously the perspective the devs and most players have, the balancing around 2 kills. In such a tournament you would see most players at least with the lower-tier killers go for hard tunnel and camp plays to secure 2 kills, and I do suspect it would work out fairly often, maybe even enough for lower-tier killers to approach and even achieve 2k averages. Of course it would not be a very interesting gameplay experience or spectating experience, but it is what it is.
Twins perform surprisingly well in tournaments still (it does and always did surprise me, the level of coordination in tournament teams should be such a strong tool against Twins, and yet they have often even outperformed killers like Nurse), but yeah, again, I do agree that they deserve adjustments to the new reality of DH vali and COH. More than that, personally I would actually want a more ambitious Twins rework, of nerfing Victor but buffing Charlotte a lot to compensate. We most likely won't see that happen though, of course.
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I am not sure I would like making almost guaranteed hatch play, but gates on same wall should not be a thing for sure. I actually like more when I manage to outplay killer and escape, where I know it's something not easy. It would be kinda lame to have "guaranteed" escape. But it's true that overall kill rates would work better, if most results would be between 1-3.
There was kinda tournament like that in Japan (I think) where they played lower tier killers. I remember lot of Pigs and yeah it was played exactly like that. Hook one survivor, face-camp and then do it again with NOED during end-game to secure 2K. That is just boring to watch.
Problem is that tournaments with scoring that forces killers to try multiple hooks and banned perks for both sides are better for an audience, but they don't reflect actual game at all. It's just completely different game at that point. It would be interesting to see some version of this implemented as alternative mode, but I doubt they will ever do it.
I actually didn't watch all games in that tournament, I just skipped through them to count hooks/kills, but I am going to watch all Twins games, because I have no idea how they managed to get so many 4Ks. Number of banned perks probably helped a lot there... Basically most healing and antislugging perks are banned, so it doesn't reflect actual game again.
I am fine with Twin's power, I just wish they would let me swap during fatigue, so I don't waste so much time watching downed survivors...
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My ideal endgame would put the last survivor and the killer in a chase for survival. If the survivor manages to survive for X seconds in that chase (a timer which could scale with the amount of pallets left on the map, as well as the killer that is being played), the Entity grants them an escape; if the killer downs the survivor, they immediately get sacrificed by the Entity. Of course the endgame as it is now has some tactical elements like stealth and whatnot that would not be nearly as much of a factor in this "sudden death chase" endgame scenario, but not only could there still be adjustments to make those elements more relevant there too (e. g. it could still be possible to stealth-juke and lose the killer in that chase, with the timer still ticking), but ultimately the current 1V1 endgame scenario is really not very engaging at all. Even literal hatch stand-offs still exist, where the killer finds the hatch first but refuses to close it, waiting for the survivor to show themselves. So yeah, the game stands to gain much more from an endgame rework than it stands to lose.
Japanese tournaments are actually wild. I follow the Asian scene fairly closely and have for years, and even I still don't always understand what their tournament formats, rules and balancing precisely is. What I do know is that killers do ridiculously well in them, 4ks with gens to spare are super common even with lower-tier killers. But that's also partly due to weird rules like survivors not being allowed to cleanse Hexes until the first gen pops, and more such stuff.
I wouldn't say tournament DbD is a completely different game at all, in concept, but yes, it is a different format, or "mode" if you will. I do actually think the state of balance in restricted tournaments resembles that of average pubs closely enough to make meaningful statements with regards to the latter, and again the fact that tournaments are balanced with 4-SWF voice comm teams in mind whereas pubs aren't leads me to believe they too suggest pubs are killer-sided. But I agree that we shouldn't use tournaments to say the game in pubs is such and such, because pubs are a different realm with a different state of balance and more importantly a different state of the gameplay experience ("live balance"), and that state definitely has issues that affect both roles, and can yield bad experiences for both roles.
Either way, I do think the game is actually fairly well-balanced in the premise of 5 roughly equally skilled and experienced players in a match, playing equally as much to "win" (to kill or escape), and the survivors being randoms that do not know each other, do not have out-of-game communications, nor any coordination of builds and the like. That is the actual base game balance premise, and in it I would even assume a bunch of killers to be overpowered. Of course, voice comms and SWFs with coordinated strats, tactics and builds do exist, and the game in various respects is not balanced with that in mind. Likewise it is not balanced for 12 hooks. Good players can still absolutely get 8-12 hooks in pubs, but that's of course because pubs often throw together players of wildly varying levels of skill and experience, even now with MMR. Against equal opponents, only very few killer characters could feasibly play to consistently get 8+ hooks. These are both aspects of the balancing I hope BHVR will in the future address, by nerfing SWFs and nerfing camping/slugging such that killers can be buffed enough in other gameplay aspects to actually consistently be able to play for 8+ hooks even against equal opponents.
Various means of healing being unavailable or only limitedly available in these tournaments definitely adds to how well Twins can perform, but it's still crazy given that coordination even without considering any perks or items altogether should be such a strong tool against them, not least because survivors can obviously heal each other.
I did suggest some Twins tweaks that concentrated on being able to switch much faster between them, I think it could work to improve them while also making their gameplay more exciting for both sides. But that would have to go along with some nerfs too, such as increasing the time before you can release Victor again after he got crushed.
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Last chase idea is interesting for sure. Maybe give Object of obsession effect when there is only last survivor left, but OoO will be removed when the chase starts. That would be really fun.... Problem with that is how chase mechanic works, killers would try to get as close as possible by moon walking, so chase doesn't start etc. that would probably need a different rules. Maybe OoO removed and chase starts based on range between them instead.
Thing is that letting Twins switch during fatigue is simple change imo and it would help both sides. Right now Twins are basically punished for not slugging, you just stand doing nothing for 5 seconds, then also slowed for 2 seconds as Charlotte, which is just bad to get for each down. It's way better for them to slug survivor and stay as Victor to get extra hit. If they let them swap during fatigue, it would be valid option to switch to Charlotte asap, which would reduce amount of slugging as Twins.
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Nuh-uh! I'M the most experienced player ever.
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Yeah, getting that chase endgame to work would be finnicky, but it is possible. A user on reddit had an interesting rework idea for the perk Sole Survivor that actually came close to what you are suggesting here, and close to how I would prefer to see endgame scenarios like this function: https://nm.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/oelbd4/a_rework_of_sole_survivor
Being able to switch during Victor fatigue seems reasonable, and I do agree that it could be shipped without anything else to "compensate". Would not be opposed.
My basic idea of quick-switching between the twins is outlined in comments I made in this thead: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297661/exponential-proves-the-devs-have-forgotten-twins, starting on page 3. Specifically:
I wouldn't be opposed to decreasing the "wake up" duration from 3 to .25 seconds when switching back to Charlotte, same as when switching from Charlotte to Victor. I don't see a balancing reason that would even necessitate this long period where you are unable to control Charlotte. It feels bad and if anything the "surprise attack" quality of catching survivors out that are being bold around a dormant Charlotte is something Twins should have. It would also improve the chase interaction where the killer player can switch back and forth between the two in order to catch a survivor out on tileplay, and this quality of "chasing one survivor with both twins" is pretty cool and something we barely see with the current 3-second wake up duration.
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Damn, imagine when you walk next to her and she just wakes up in 0,25 seconds :D I have actually done it with insidious few times, that I faked playing as Victor to watch survivors as idle Charlotte, then hit them when they get close. It's really funny to get their response in endgame chat.
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If you dont want to play the game why even get into a match and ruin it for the ones who actually want to play?
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Hmm, petty and bored?
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Imo they should start banning people who post this kinds of posts. They obviously have more important things they should be focused on irl than be posting on online forums.
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I have actually done that myself, and it is super funny if it works out!
I used Dragon's Grip, kicked a gen, looked at the floor as Insidious, Victor-less Charlotte so as to make it seem I'm dormant, and then when a survivor was bold enough to touch that gen, they were in for quite the surprise. Having this quality as a base-game mechanic of Twins gameplay would make for a lot of cool jumpscare situations, and I also think the dynamic of chasing a survivor with both twins at once that the quick-switching would encourage can be super fun. Maybe to compensate they could decrease Victor's hitzone, which would require more precision to hit a survivor, but at the same time make it more possible to pounce around objects without bumping into them.
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I think I already explained myself.I am playing the game the way I want to play and I’m having fun doing it.My idea of fun now is to bore the survivors for as long as possible and for as few bp as possible.Survivors can blame their toxic and bm ways for this.I paid good money for this game and will play how I want to.
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And they paid "good money for this game and will play how they want". Such a miserable way of thinking.
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AMAZING SOLUTION FOR BROKEN GAME. THIS GAME COMPLETELY BROKEN AND DIED.
1 hook , 2 gen completed against to noobs .
1 hook 3 gen completed against to pro players.
2 or 3 times down no hook / 4 gens completed against to SWF players / (flashlight / palette save / friework
3 or 4 hit to 1 survivor and no down...
Nice job DEV TEAM
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So let them win it seems.
Why bother playing this game then just have it in the background while playing something better.
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+ rep
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I don’t play games for others fun.They still get to do gens and exit.That’s the survivors objectives,I don’t impede them.They get to do what they want to do.
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See I’m being nice and letting them win.They get what they want,an EZ.I just make sure they get as little bp as possible and it’s boring.
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I know 2 really good ways to have fun as killer.
1) Stop playing killer and go to play survivor with friends (solo is basically killer but with a chance of 3 clowns with you).
2) Stop playing the game and go do something more fun.
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When did it become the killer's job to make the game fun for survivors? It a pvp game and with the way both the devs and normal mentality of the game it is leading to where no one gives a ######### about the other team.
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If you dont give a f and just want to afk in a game why dont you go play something else?
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And do survivors give one flying @@@@ about killers having fun?Hell no,why should I give a @@@@ about their fun?I said this before,If survivors showed any amount of courtesy or manners I’d stop.But they don’t.Try learning a new killer and the game is over 5 minutes in and you get bagged and pallet stunned and flash lit those whole 5 minutes.It’s obvious it’s a new killer but that doesn’t matter so @@@@ survivors and their fun.
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Not afk,I’m watching and laughing the whole time!I don’t want to play something else,I want to do exactly what I’m doing.
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Well I should be asking the same thing about anyone who wants it to be easy mode too.
also maybe someone is and just has this on in the background to deal with the mmr bullshit.
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All killers must be do this until survivors nerfed. I will do that during long time...
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I hate playing survivor!!!Its boring as f and easy as f.I hate the whole survivor way to play and all the survivor crap they do.Won’t ever play survivor.I like what I’m doing.
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Yes I’m petty and bored.It’s fun and I don’t care.
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Youre giving them easy mode by going afk.
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75% kill rate? Where is that coming from?
At high level play, the game is survivor sided. Gens go very fast, and there are a lot of survivor sided maps in this game. That's at least for the average killer. Of course, when looking at Blight or Nurse, using their best addon and perk builds, a completely different story is painted.
But in general the game is tilted to survivor. It's also not helpful that two of the most useful strategies on the killers side is camping, or at least proxy camping, and tunneling. They are definitely not always the best strategies, but they are the best in a fair amount of situations. Which is just not fun.
Also, you realise that it's especially in low ranks where the kill rate is actually higher than normal? And especially higher than in high rank?
And CoH is more than just a meta perk. It's just op, since it takes so much pressure away from killers. The meta perks killers got aren't on that same level.
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Understandable. I think that's good enough reason.
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I DON’T CARE!!Isnt that obvious?!!I want to make it as boring as possible with as little bp as possible.I want to waste as much of their time as possible.Them getting gens and going out the gate is the least of my concern.
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You care enough to be so salty to reply to me in caps lock when I wasnt even talking to you. Calm down buddy, dont have a stroke.
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you don't even need to be afk for it to be easy mode though unless they royally ######### up or the killer sweats it's still in the survivors favor.
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this is the DBD community we are talking about, they dont want balanced games, they want free escapes and free 4ks.
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You were talking to me stupid!You said I was giving them an easy win.I thought I had made it clear that didn’t matter.I put it in all caps so even a pea brain survivor could understand.Have a nice day.
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...and then get banned for AFKing and wonder how that could ever happen to you!
what a great idea.
genuine question: why play this game when you dont have fun? if you have no way of enjoying Killer right now, do what i did: quit.
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The best way to have fun in DBD is to not play it.
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Not afk,I move around map and look at all the pretty stuff lol.And I’m having fun.If survivors aren’t having fun,I am.That is the point.
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No,my way has been a lot of fun.
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And it’s not like I do it every game.I’ll use my doc or spirit to go get a couple of k.Sometimes 3 or 4K.But this started when I saw what new killers must be going through.Can’t learn a new killer because the game is over so fast and survivors are total dbags and trash you at the end.They don’t care about killer fun.I don’t care about theirs.It gets boring being competitive with only two or three killers and no chance to get better with different ones.
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Open the first gate and block second gate.
Max survivor score : 9k (i guess hatch)
Other survivors 5-6 k max
Nice project !!
Good solution for dead game
In the few games they don't use exit gate and all of them suiceded lol...
max surv score : 5K
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share with your ps here pls if you support that
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I think that’s Awesome!!Might give that way a shot too lol!!
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Killers should band together and make survivors play just as miserable as ours.Then maybe something would get done to make the game better.
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In all seriousness,I tried to play by the survivors handbook for killers.All I got for my “fair” play was gens done in 5 minutes and tbagging at gate.I can handle getting beat.I’m not a great player.Never claimed to be one.But when survivors go out of their way to make every game as miserable as possible for the killers,that’s when I get to this point.It started my first try at deathslinger.It was very apparent that i was new to that killer.I wasn’t hitting my shots and I wasn’t sure how to get pressure with him.I finally got a down with one gen left.What happens?Im carrying to hook and three flashlights come out.Then I got another and hit by pallet before I can get to hook.Managed one more shot out before they ran out gate and got body locked so I couldn’t get a single hook.That is SURVIVOR gameplay every game.Why should I care if they have fun?Please give me a real answer as to why I should care if survivors have fun.
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Expect for the fact that they release kill rates every few months and no killer has ever gone above 60% most hover around 45-50% so your wrong
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Body is 1 character too short.
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If your gonna us old data sure
Why don't you actually use something recent
Oh wait that wouldn't fit your narrative right
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