Decisive Strike possible changes/reworks

Entità

I propose the Community the following changes and reworks:

1) SIMPLE CHANGE: Decisive Strike will be no more an obsession perk, but the survivor cannot use it until they perform a safe rescue (like Deliverance);
2) CHALLENGING CHANGE: Decisive Strike will be no more an obsession perk and become an activable perk. Every time you fully repair a generator, fully cleanse a totem, fully search a chest and perform a safe rescue (all four requirements must be met!), the perks activates. When used, it can be reactivated with the same procedure;
3) EXTREME CHANGE: Decisive Strike can be used every time you are picked up by the killer, but you are immediately sacrificed if hooked (like the last survivor);

4) FIRST REWORK: Once for trial, Decisive Strike can be used to hit and stun the killer within 8 meters for 4/5/6 seconds;
5) SECOND REWORK: Decisive Strike suddenly transfers the obsession to another survivor (or, if there are no other survivors, destroys the obsession), when the killer is about to take an action based on obsession (for example, Rancor) against the survivor running it;
6) THIRD REWORK: Once for trial, Decisive Strike can counter a killing action (regardless if it depends on Mori or power's add-ons), and the killer is stunned for 3/4/5 seconds.

Whispers23

I like number 1 and 2.

Entità

@Whispers23 Thanks for your contribution.

Other ideas?

Aerys

I think that if they fix the base game and SWF issues at hand then DS won't be an issue, though one thing that could be reworked in the Survivors favour is making juggling not possible anymore; If the Killer drops a person with DS while the effect is still possible that person should simply be up and in the injured state, essentially the Killer would act as though the Survivor just wiggled out of its grasp.

NMCKE

Entità said:

I propose the Community the following changes and reworks:

1) SIMPLE CHANGE: Decisive Strike will be no more an obsession perk, but the survivor cannot use it until they perform a safe rescue (like Deliverance);
2) CHALLENGING CHANGE: Decisive Strike will be no more an obsession perk and become an activable perk. Every time you fully repair a generator, fully cleanse a totem, fully search a chest and perform a safe rescue (all four requirements must be met!), the perks activates. When used, it can be reactivated with the same procedure;
3) EXTREME CHANGE: Decisive Strike can be used every time you are grabbed, but you are immediately sacrificed if hooked (like the last survivor);

4) FIRST REWORK: Once for trial, Decisive Strike can be used to hit and stun the killer within 8 meters for 4/5/6 seconds;
5) SECOND REWORK: Decisive Strike suddenly transfers the obsession to another survivor (or, if there are no other survivors, destroys the obsession), when the killer is about to take an action based on obsession (for example, Rancor) against the survivor running it;
6) THIRD REWORK: Once for trial, Decisive Strike can counter a killing action (regardless if it depends on Mori or power's add-ons), and the killer is stunned for 3/4/5 seconds.

I like the first suggestion: Safe Unhooking a Survivor. However, will the perk be locked up if you are hooked?

Entità

@Nickenzie I think everybody should enjoy the right to decide when Decisive Strike must be used, that is before the first, the second or the third hooking.

Master

@Entità said:
I propose the Community the following changes and reworks:

1) SIMPLE CHANGE: Decisive Strike will be no more an obsession perk, but the survivor cannot use it until they perform a safe rescue (like Deliverance);
2) CHALLENGING CHANGE: Decisive Strike will be no more an obsession perk and become an activable perk. Every time you fully repair a generator, fully cleanse a totem, fully search a chest and perform a safe rescue (all four requirements must be met!), the perks activates. When used, it can be reactivated with the same procedure;
3) EXTREME CHANGE: Decisive Strike can be used every time you are grabbed, but you are immediately sacrificed if hooked (like the last survivor);

4) FIRST REWORK: Once for trial, Decisive Strike can be used to hit and stun the killer within 8 meters for 4/5/6 seconds;
5) SECOND REWORK: Decisive Strike suddenly transfers the obsession to another survivor (or, if there are no other survivors, destroys the obsession), when the killer is about to take an action based on obsession (for example, Rancor) against the survivor running it;
6) THIRD REWORK: Once for trial, Decisive Strike can counter a killing action (regardless if it depends on Mori or power's add-ons), and the killer is stunned for 3/4/5 seconds.

1) same as deliverance, do you really want to give the killers reason not to give away safe unhooks? think about that

2) Fully repair a gen? You dont get it when someone has repaired a bit too? Seems like really weird design, also look 1) agian

3) grabing is really rare

4) I liked this one (what about obsession though?)

5) completely takes rancor out of the game (killer perks stronger than survivor ones?)

6) Interesting, but moris arent used that often even if survivors claim so

Entità

@Master 1) BBQ is a good reason not to do it, and a Decisive Strike rework doesn't mean everybody will use it.

2) The survivor has to put in one or more gens the exact amount of charges that a gen needs to be repaired from the beginning to the very end.

3) It's a wrong word: not "grabbed", but "picked up", that means the highest dangerous playstyle ever: you can use it every time you are in the killer's grasp, but if you fail the skill check or the killer dribbles you to the hook, you get a death sentence.

4) I don't know if it should be an obsession perk: balance test would answer your question.

5) No, Rancor would not be useless: the killer would have a surprise effect, would be compelled to change their plans.

6) Yeah, a situational perk to counter a special action, if it occurs.

Master

@Entità said:
@Master 1) BBQ is a good reason not to do it, and a Decisive Strike rework doesn't mean everybody will use it.

2) The survivor has to put in one or more gens the exact amount of charges that a gen needs to be repaired from the beginning to the very end.

3) It's a wrong word: not "grabbed", but "picked up", that means the highest dangerous playstyle ever: you can use it every time you are in the killer's grasp, but if you fail the skill check or the killer dribbles you to the hook, you get a death sentence.

4) I don't know if it should be an obsession perk: balance test would answer your question.

5) No, Rancor would not be useless: the killer would have a surprise effect, would be compelled to change their plans.

6) Yeah, a situational perk to counter a special action, if it occurs.

1) Explain that thing with BBQ, unless you are genrushed you will always get the 4 stacks

2) Ok, so you are talking about an equivalent of one gen (like in the dailies)

3)hitting the skillcheck is really not hard, that would only punish bad survivors

Entità

@Master 1) I mean, the killer can camp to prevent a safe unhook, but BBQ is a good reason to look for other victims and leave the hook.

2) Exactly.

3) It's intended to promote a frenetic and reckless playstyle, for people loving it: a huge advantage with a huge risk.

Master

@Entità said:
@Master 1) I mean, the killer can camp to prevent a safe unhook, but BBQ is a good reason to look for other victims and leave the hook.

2) Exactly.

3) It's intended to promote a frenetic and reckless playstyle, for people loving it: a huge advantage with a huge risk.

1) BBQ gives you only a target (assuming they show up at all). That doesnt change the fact that with this idea you ACTIVELY want to deny safe unhooks or you will be hit by this ######### DS. I can tell you for sure that I would definitely adapt my playstyle if such a rework would happen. The impact of DS is too huge to simply ignore it.

3) The problem is that the risk only depends on the players skill. A beginner survivor will always fail DS and will get rekt due to that, but the irony is that you can catch a beginner relatively fast afetr DS.

DS only has a huge impact when the survivor is experienced, knows how to loop etc and for those guys the "risk" not to hit the skillcheck is laughable

Aerys

I still think the only change that should be made is that if the Killer drops a DS user the Killer should go through the stun animation regardless as though DS worked, that way juggling would be erased. It's a pretty easy fix and a pretty sensible one, DS isn't all that powerful anyhow, just a "Get out of jail for a skill check" card.

Master

@Aerys said:
I still think the only change that should be made is that if the Killer drops a DS user the Killer should go through the stun animation regardless as though DS worked, that way juggling would be erased. It's a pretty easy fix and a pretty sensible one, DS isn't all that powerful anyhow, just a "Get out of jail for a skill check" card.

Guys like you are so adorable

Malakir

Aerys said:

I still think the only change that should be made is that if the Killer drops a DS user the Killer should go through the stun animation regardless as though DS worked, that way juggling would be erased. It's a pretty easy fix and a pretty sensible one, DS isn't all that powerful anyhow, just a "Get out of jail for a skill check" card.

Exactly, a skill check to get a free pallet city tour. What a bad idea..

Aerys

Well I've never had more than two DS users in one match, and it's an entire perk that is gone once they use it, and I've always been able to catch them not long after they've fled anyhow, so honestly I don't see it as that huge of an issue, especially since they can fail their skill check which gives me a small laugh as a good game oughta. Does it suck when they successfully use it? Sure, of course it does. But does that mean it isn't a fair reward for an entire perk? One that has the chance to fail completely? I can't say it logically isn't. Thus I say it's a fair perk, just like haunted ground or NOED are.

Malakir

Aerys said:

Well I've never had more than two DS users in one match, and it's an entire perk that is gone once they use it, and I've always been able to catch them not long after they've fled anyhow, so honestly I don't see it as that huge of an issue, especially since they can fail their skill check which gives me a small laugh as a good game oughta. Does it suck when they successfully use it? Sure, of course it does. But does that mean it isn't a fair reward for an entire perk? One that has the chance to fail completely? I can't say it logically isn't. Thus I say it's a fair perk, just like haunted ground or NOED are.

You can counter nodded, people stop using  these comparison. Yes if you are at rank 15-10 they might use it badly but I think that game should be bqlanced towards good players not the bad ones

In a scenario where both sides have the same amount of skill at rank 1 being pretty good. 1) the survivor won't miss that skill check since as survivor you do skillchecks 24/7 and isn't a big deal. 2) the time is against the killer so if he catch a survivor in 30s-1min per hit and you add DS giving extra time, is an issue

Noed get destroyed by cleansinf totems and even if you don't after catching a survivor you can count to 20 and its gone since they are notified he has it. Then go to the hook he's probably camping, save the guy with BT an that's it. I've done this many times without DS and BT since I don't use those, imaging using them too

I play mostly survivor and when I bought the halloween pack for Mayer's I wanted to try Laurie to see how hard is this skill check that everybody say it is. Lv1 Laurie ofc, and I felt bad how easy it is. Its harder hit a great skill check on a gen tbh. plus you cannot take away DS from survivors like hexes for killers. I won't even ######### that much if only 1 ds is allowed per game and its the obsession like giving in the lobby a small icon that only surveys can see to say something like 'don't use DS, I'm using it this match'

Its a free escape and super annoying when a non obsession give you a stun and a free loop pass

Aerys

@Malakir
Well, they could possibly increase the wiggle bar % Survivors need to reach before they get the skill check, for both the Obsession and non-Obsession, which would help you get to the hook even with a DS user, but it's somewhat funny how often there's a hook right there for me when I pick one up where I can hook them before they DS completes, then when I pick them up again later they use it on me lol.

Again, it's a whole perk that gets used up and is gone after going off, if you're going to have a perk like that its single use has to have a strong effect. As far as balance is concerned it is balanced, because not only can it be used just once the entire game (whereas a Perk like self-care is useful 100% of the time), but you can fail the skill check (even the best fail sometimes, no one is perfect and whether it's just due to being tired, distracted, high, or drunk, there are cases where it'll happen to everyone) and you can be hooked before the skill goes off.

You also used NOED as your counter, and while fine I admit you're right in that, you didn't use Haunted Ground for a reason as it's exactly the same as DS in that it can only be used once and it has a strong effect (kind of the opposite of DS in a way). You could say that the counter to it is not cleansing the Hex Totem but the dangers of not doing so heavily outweigh the dangers of not so if found (which let's be honest finding a totem is in no way difficult) it will be cleansed and the Killer will get that effect. It can also fail in the sense that you don't hit anyone within 60s but that's another reason it's balanced, it gives a strong effect but can fail and can only be used once, sounds like DS to me.

Malakir

Aerys said:

@Malakir
Well, they could possibly increase the wiggle bar % Survivors need to reach before they get the skill check, for both the Obsession and non-Obsession, which would help you get to the hook even with a DS user, but it's somewhat funny how often there's a hook right there for me when I pick one up where I can hook them before they DS completes, then when I pick them up again later they use it on me lol.

Again, it's a whole perk that gets used up and is gone after going off, if you're going to have a perk like that its single use has to have a strong effect. As far as balance is concerned it is balanced, because not only can it be used just once the entire game (whereas a Perk like self-care is useful 100% of the time), but you can fail the skill check (even the best fail sometimes, no one is perfect and whether it's just due to being tired, distracted, high, or drunk, there are cases where it'll happen to everyone) and you can be hooked before the skill goes off.

You also used NOED as your counter, and while fine I admit you're right in that, you didn't use Haunted Ground for a reason as it's exactly the same as DS in that it can only be used once and it has a strong effect (kind of the opposite of DS in a way). You could say that the counter to it is not cleansing the Hex Totem but the dangers of not doing so heavily outweigh the dangers of not so if found (which let's be honest finding a totem is in no way difficult) it will be cleansed and the Killer will get that effect. It can also fail in the sense that you don't hit anyone within 60s but that's another reason it's balanced, it gives a strong effect but can fail and can only be used once, sounds like DS to me.

Yeah I didn't used haunted ground for a reason. Its up to survivors cleanse that and there I a reason why nobody uses it. Its useless since give you nothing to pressure the map so there is no point to even take it into consideration. The point of I I have some sort of bait if you run ruin so they have to chance to pick the wrong one but in that case you sacrifice 2 perks and when they clean them both you stay with 2 perks and in the case you have noed now you have 1 perk for early-mid game

% wiggle won't solve the problems. Isn't that "its fair cuz its once per march" even adrenaline its once people match and its really strong. I use that and sometimes I don't even heal since I get free Insta healthy and sprint burst by that. The point is with one DS as I explained, you can take over another minute from the killer which means 1 to 2 genes. Time is gold for killer unlike surveys whichbare in control of this timer

If you think haunted ground is like DS I really don't know what to tell you. HG I used to protect your actual main hex, and almost nobody uses it since give no pressure and take away one perk slot, another gamble perk in another words. Any hex is a gamble since can be cleaned, while DS is easy to hit and give a free ticket for pallet town. I do that already without it, I can imagine how can I be annoying have 3 lives instead

Idk if you think one of those most unused killer perks can be matched to the most annoying and arguably strongest perk for survivor, idk what to tell you. Stick to your idea if make you feel better. Even if the devs themselves admitted that was a mistake by their part and won't do the same but ok

Aerys

Mechanically it is the same, but I'm not going to argue my point further, your open hostility is a bit much for me to debate seriously.

Bravo0413

Okay so why would it not be an obsession perk?

Entità

@Bravo0413 Who are you asking?

WarStRiKeR117

Considering that not many people in general use DS because it doesn't work with their build or they simply can't hit the skill check I think the only nerf it should get is that the survivor is broken for a short time, to prevent Insta heal....if you nerf this perk you have to nerf it's counters to be fair and balanced, like enduring and unnerving presence or juggling a simple counter to DS but most people complain about that saying that they shouldn't have to run those perks to counter something. (Then the same thing should be said for survivors) I feel like most killers that complain are low rank killers that feel like killer is too hard. Whenever I see it's a swf I always run enduring and unnerving and they rarely hit the DS skill check (only about 5% hit it, but with enduring I just turn around and chase for 2 seconds then I have them down again), and this is at rank 1. Everyone has to stop complaining and open their eyes and see both sides, counters, etc. 

Bravo0413

Entità said:

@Bravo0413 Who are you asking?

Asking you... the devs want it to keep the same satisfaction feeling so it should remain strong but not the same game breaking ability it has... so I feel it would remain an obsession perk.... also I like the #4 option 😁 and maybe make it an exhaustion perk where the obsession can 1x per match out of chase stun the killer (causes exhaustion) then throughout the match while in chase you're #4 idea.....only not as long a stun! 

DocFabron

#1 is pretty good. I like it.