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Leatherface masks removal

madminer95
madminer95 Member Posts: 151
edited January 2022 in Feedback and Suggestions

I don't recall ever seeing any hateful activity to do with the Leatherface masks or discussed in the community.

But even if it is occurring its not an issue with the cosmetics (as a reminder Leatherface isn't racist or sexist in who he kills and wears the face of) and removing the cosmetic isn't the right answer,


When people using the LGBT charm were targeted it wasn't removed.

Instead the people being hateful were banned, this situation shouldn't be any different.


And the compensation iridescent shards are just insulting, if these masks that can only be obtained by playing hours and hours of gameplay using a paid only character absolutely have to be removed the compensation should be at least 400 auric cells so they can be used to buy at least a single cosmetic peace of choice.

Post edited by Mandy on
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Comments

  • Smuk
    Smuk Member Posts: 735

    I honestly dont underastand. Now tapp and other dude has to get skin tone change so it wont provoke anti BLM

  • madminer95
    madminer95 Member Posts: 151

    I'm not saying it didn't happen full stop but from what I can tell from the posts around this removal what's been documented is an amount of isolated incidents you could count on your hand that blew up on socials, an easily manageable quantity of incidents that could be dealt with through bans.

    the LGBT charm was being used to identify, focus and insult those who were/supporting LGBT and was arguably a more widespread issue, Behaviour could have solved that problem through deleting the charm but instead solved it through reports and bans

    I'm genuinely not here to "troll or play the contrarian", I just think this is both the wrong and lazy way of fixing this issue, the people spreading hate get away without repercussions and will just move on to doing something else similar and they get the satisfaction that they made big enough ripples to have content people paid for removed from the game.

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,950

    It's ridiculous, but it is what it is.

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,216

    Removing the masks removes the racists ability to amplify their hate. Having the ability to make Bubba essentially have blackface was easy way for racists to get their kicks. Removing the masks makes it harder for them to get their racist message across - it's like locking your car door to avoid theft, only those really intent on stealing are going to go out of their way to break the window but most won't put effort in past checking if the car is unlocked. Now if players want to be racist they'll have to try harder to get their message across, the ones being racist because it was easy to toss on mask and in endgame go "lol I'm racist" are just going to move on because they'll actually need to put in effort.

    I'm sure this isn't a this or that situation. Removing the masks doesn't mean they won't still ban people outing themselves as racist in endgame chat - it's pretty ignorant to think that would be the case. There have also been complaints for years about this mask and players using it to harass POC players - BHVR probably tried moderating while trying to keep the masks in game but unfortunately racists keep coming into the game.

    This is also licensed content so the license holder would have to agree for BHVR to remove the masks. It's a bad look if their character is being associated with racism thanks to a mask that isn't necessary to the game. The license holder probably didn't need too much convincing, especially when they have a Texas Chain Saw Massacre game in the works - don't need "blackface Bubba" popping up in searches and tainting brand new game.

  • Ghouled_Mojo
    Ghouled_Mojo Member Posts: 2,287

    Here’s a happy cookie.

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 1,461

    The virtue signaling will continue until player counts improve.

  • SelectDevotee68
    SelectDevotee68 Member Posts: 125

    Why doesn't BHVR change it to be Claudette's glasses instead? LeatherFace wears her glasses, and it ain't black face no more.

    And if it has to still be removed, just remove Claudette's.

  • SelectDevotee68
    SelectDevotee68 Member Posts: 125

    I've gotten plenty of players as both Killer and Survivor, that use the LGBT charm and be toxic.

  • SelectDevotee68
    SelectDevotee68 Member Posts: 125

    They don't have to remove them. They just have to change Claudette's to something else in order for racists to lose their toy.

  • SelectDevotee68
    SelectDevotee68 Member Posts: 125

    The thing is, removing the masks is a extreme response when they could just change/alter Claudette's.

  • TragicSolitude
    TragicSolitude Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 7,340
    edited January 2022

    Or change Claudette's mask to be a patchwork face consisting of multiple survivors. Or replace all four masks with patchwork faces.

    But just removing all four masks, deleting a cool unique feature that was exclusive to Bubba? That sucks.

    Edit: You know, it would be pretty funny to see Bubba with glasses. The more I picture it the more I want it lol.

  • HeyItsQuiet
    HeyItsQuiet Member Posts: 359

    That would be nice if he wore a token of the character, like glasses for Dwight or Claude. Not sure how that would translate for Meg or Jake. However, they made their decision and the artist who created the cosmetics is happy for the removal, so I'm inclined to agree.

  • madminer95
    madminer95 Member Posts: 151

    i'd be okay with that, people only seem to be taking issue with the smartface cosmetic so it make more sense to just edit/remove just that one.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    Except... its not black face. Its a killer who's theme it is to wear the face of his victims. There can be NO argument made that the smartface cosmetic is intrinsically racist or offensive. These are fictional characters and people need to realize the difference between fiction and reality. I'm pretty sure in the fictional setting leatherface doesn't give a crap what color your skin is. And again, if its the PLAYERS causing problems with it as you said then the PLAYERS doing it need to be held accountable. This is a non issue made into an issue by people who think there is something intrinsically offensive about a cosmetic that literally fits the theme of the killer. If things are said in the post game chat that are racist or someone goes into someone's stream and says racist things that is one thing but within the trial there is nothing racist about using any cosmetic on a killer and interacting with any survivor.

  • MyNamePete
    MyNamePete Member Posts: 1,053
  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,216

    Devs now see it as blackface (as Not Queen said in that clip) and as a tool used by racists to harass players. As of mid-chapter patch it will be gone. No argument on why some players want to keep it will change that, especially after multiple news sources have reported "Dead by Daylight removes Leatherface mask over blackface complaints."

    As for lore excuse DBD Fog Whisperer Milady Confetti did a great video on that.


  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,216

    Did you watch the video or did you just get offended by the title? Kind of like how a black person may get offended seeing a literal black face worn by a white man in a game? If you haven't you should watch the video because it is very informative.

    It's a win for the black players that won't be reminded of a terrible intrinsically racist history of black face everytime they have a match against a smart face Bubba.

    It's nice for you that you don't find the mask to be racist but there are enough that do, including the devs, that it's getting removed. When you wear it as killer you don't even see the cosmetic - the only people seeing the cosmetic are the survivors, survivors that may be black and are reminded about the horrible history of blackface and racism in real life as they spend an entire match trying to not get killed by a white man literally wearing a black face.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    Except its not ignorance to not see it as racist. It literally is not racist. Now you're implying everyone who doesn't see it as racist is ignorant. Do you realize what this does for creative work going forward? Story writers are going to worry about making a black character the victim of anything in their horror stories out of fear someone will scream racism. I don't care how many times you reply to me and say the same thing over and over, I'm going to tell you the same thing every time, which is the TRUTH. The cosmetic is NOT intrinsically racist. That is a fact and your OPINION that it isn't is just that, an opinion.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    No. I'm not. I'm stating a fact as a fact. You're blatantly ignoring it because you have a bias opinion on the matter. BHVR can say what they want and do what they want with their game, as I said already. That doesn't make anything intrinsically true and it doesn't mean it won't come without backlash, which it has. That is the point I am making. People know that the cosmetic is not racist, so there is backlash on the change which there should be. Just because a few players used the cosmetic a certain way and said certain things after the match doesn't make the cosmetic itself racist. Why don't you see that? We're talking about a fictional character who has a characteristic of wearing the face of his victims. The idea of one of his victims being black makes it intrinsically racist is ridiculous.

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,216

    You are projecting saying I have a bias when really it is you with the bias while continuing to state your opinions are facts when they are not facts. The history of blackface makes blackface intrinsically racist and Leatherface never wore a black person's face in the movies so your statement on what he would/wouldn't do is just an assumption not fact. You can keep stating your opinions and claiming they are facts but that won't change the facts BHVR has stated and the masks will still be removed because of the facts BHVR had stated.

  • AnObserver
    AnObserver Member Posts: 747
    edited January 2022

    Her Logic ends in the result of non-White non-Female Characters not having unlockable masks (If it is to be a direct association to the IRL Lore of Ed Gein). Not the removal of all Masks. (And also fails to address the scenario in which Ed Gein's mother was Black, would Smartface be acceptable then?)

    It should be noted that there are varying "types" of lore depending on a person's perspective, some that come to mind are:

    • Lore behind IRL Ed Gein
    • Lore behind the IRL creation of the character of Leatherface
    • Lore behind Leatherface in the Leatherface Universe
    • Lore behind the inclusion and design of Leatherface into IRL DBD
    • Lore behind Leatherface in the DBD Universe.

    Most "Bad Actors" use the Lore of Leatherface in the Leatherface Universe as the "excuse" for Smartface's inclusion, in which they are technically correct about. Leatherface was indiscriminate, it was likely just implicit bias during the creation of The Chainsaw Massacre in which there was no inclusion of a marginalized person's face used as a mask.

    "Hansen later added, "The idea of the mask is that there is no personality under the mask. That was the idea in talking with Tobe and Kim. When they created the character, they said he has to put on masks to express himself because he himself can't do it. The way we tried to create him, there is nothing under the mask, which is what makes him so frightening."

    I would also classify Milady Confetti as a "Bad Actor" for literally using racist logic in that Leatherface should not be allowed to use a facemask of a marginalized person because Ed Gein's mother was white, (so only white people would be acceptable).

    In the end I do support the decision to remove them as most people are stupid and more concerned about skin color than the actual meaning behind things. (Such as the historical context or symbolism of blackface which Milady Confetti literally handwaves away as not important in her video).

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    When will black characters be able to be included in fiction the same way white people are without fear of something that happens to them being considered racist?

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,216

    Look up the history of blackface and you will see it is intrinsically racist. Within the comments you got offended by a title of a YouTube video, my saying Leatherface as a white man is wearing a literal blackface, and my saying people can be naive/ignorant about blackface. Your responses are opinion based on your feelings and it shows very clearly. You can keep believing the Claudette mask isn't blackface but BHVR after learning more about what constitutes blackface has stated it is and are removing it from the game - they'd rather the backlash from the few upset over the removal than keep something used to amplify racism in their game.

  • AnObserver
    AnObserver Member Posts: 747

    Racism is Closely associated with Blackface, not intrinsically. If you do not think that makes a significant difference, then please be understanding that some people have different thought processes than others and this kind of distinction is extremely important.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374
    edited January 2022

    It is not intrinsically racist. I will say this forever. News flash, not all black people think alike and share the same views and opinions. I know shocker right? It turns out not all black people like to be kept in a victim mentality. And what if a black person comes along and says the cosmetic is not offensive? Are they wrong? Does their voice matter? Are they racist? This has to stop being a universal thing every time something like this comes up. It needs to be handled on an individual basis.