Leatherface masks removal
Comments
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Listen, I'm aware of a difference of an Ideal and the Reality of race relations.
The Ideal seems to be that skin-color does not result in targeted negative behavior against people. Bad-Actors will cling to this and say that something like Bubba's Smartface holds to that Ideal because Bubba wouldn't care that the face skinned was black and that it's actually a step forward to equality.
The Reality is that this is being used to perpetuate historical negativity against people based on skin-color.
You need to address both scenarios. In a closed system that technically isn't racist. But the reality is that people are jackasses, and it needs to be addressed. Only viewing the closed system is disingenuous but should still be touched upon.
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While it is blackface, I don't think that anyone who isn't black should have a final say in this topic whether they're a dev or not in all honesty. Overall I'm glad they're making the right decision in removing the masks from the game
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If you're not black, you don't get to decide what is and isn't blackface period
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Honestly I feel like it's just going to be replaced by some other dog whistle
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And I'm quite sure not all black people would see this as blackface. Do you think it is intrinsically or because some people used it in a hateful way towards other players over time? My argument all along was that the cosmetic itself is not intrinsically racist or offensive. Why? Because context matters and in the context of this fictional character there is nothing racist about it.
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Again, if you're not black you don't have a say in the argument period. That's the only response you'll be getting from me regarding this topic from now on.
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Then move along if thats the only thing you have to say. I've given my opinion and will continue to do so regardless of how you personally feel about it. I do have a say in this argument. Everyone who plays this game has a say in this argument especially those who earned these cosmetics.
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If you're not black you don't have a say just like any other person coming from a position of privilege period
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You can call it virtue signaling all you want, you can say that these things "barely happened", it doesn't really matter.
BHVR is probably just trying to prevent future issues of players being harassed, and is basing this decision off of things that have already happened. Plus, let's not pretend that there hasn't been a lot of controversy surrounding the masks already.
The only thing I see that is remotely wrong about this whole situation is how they are compensating the players who had them. At least it wasn't bloodpoints though.
I guarantee that in less than a month, none of you will care that this ever happened.
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That might be an Ideal you hold, but the Reality is that words and their meanings are social constructs and agreed upon by consensus of perspectives as a whole. Actively being hostile about it only serves to damage your case and arguably is less effective for swaying opinion.
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Its not a "position of privilege" to talk about the difference between fiction and reality. It seems to me you think you have the privilege to invalidate my opinion about something based on the color of my skin, which you don't even know what it is interestingly enough. You know there is a huge difference between a real person doing blackface and a fictional character who murders and wears the face of his victims, right? Where does the line get drawn when it comes to fiction and what is or isn't intrinsically offensive? How far does it go before creative works inevitably become limited to that of a socially acceptable standard?
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You're talking about a black issue, as someone who presumably is not black. So no you don't have a say in the matter, yes I do have the privilege to do so because I am black. You don't have a say in black issues if you are not black. You can either you can show your support for progress handling them or be against it, period.
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There exists racial bias in the world, that is a given as the topic even exists.
But I can't help but find it funny as well as depressing that you're literally advocating for the worst parts of White Privilege under the guise of Black Privilege: That skin color determines what you can and cannot participate in.
Is there content that a non-black American born person is not going to be as knowledgeable about given that they haven't explicitly experienced the same things as a black American born person? Yes.
Does that mean they should be barred from discussions with each other to try and understand one another's viewpoint in order to become more knowledgeable and more empathetic about that subject? No.
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This issue was definitely mishandled. Unfortunately it is another example of a company folding to the current woke culture we are wrapped up in. They should had handed out bans and moved on with it. It's easier to comply with the demands of the woke mob than it is to hold your ground. Sad to see, this is what can alienate your fan base and drive people away from your brand and exactly why I haven't watched an NFL game in 2 years and will never return.
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I'm going to give my opinion about it regardless of how privileged you think you are in denying me my opinion. Period. This change is affecting everyone who earned these cosmetics. I'm not denying that some people used it in a hateful way. What I am saying is the removal of the cosmetics to prevent a few people from doing that is the wrong approach to this in my opinion. The cosmetic itself isn't the problem here. It isn't intrinsically racist. Context and intent matters in all things and when these cosmetics were made there was nothing wrong with them being in the game then and there is nothing wrong with them now. Finding racism where it doesn't exist is a problem (talking about the cosmetic itself here). It hinders creative work because there will always be that fear of someone seeing something made as offensive when it really isn't. If a few people being trolls with something in a game is enough to cause the entire removal of something that a lot of players earned then the future of gaming is going to have a lot of problems. People that do this will always be around. What are we going to do? Design everything in such a way that makes it impossible for things like this to happen? If a white person plays as a black character in a video game is that a problem?
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I mean that just means you’re more concerned about tribalism rather than the game or its mechanics itself.
So, yeah, the NFL is probably better without you, DBD probably will be too.
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Nah just means I'm a free thinker and won't follow the sheep like you my guy, nice try tho.
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Historical context matters too. Same ######### happened to the Swastika. It's why we don't have any Swastika charms.
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Uses "free thinker" and "sheep" in a sentence. Lol. What Incel forum drip-fed those buzzwords to you, bub?
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Exit stage left please.
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Fictional context matters too. The cosmetic is not racist. Racist actions are racist. Finding racism where it doesn't exist is a problem.
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Wow, what another coined phrase rather than expressing your own opinion. A real "free thinker" here folks.
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Fictional context matter too, I agree, but it takes a backseat to IRL context. Especially in a multiplayer game where you're not the one in control of what other people do.
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Actually, regarding Fictional and IRL context, Ebony Mori's initially allowed Killers to Mori a Survivor without having to Hook them even once. Which fits with the Fictional context of DBD and was only really a problem for players that were not able to suspend their disbelief and find fun in the atmosphere of the game. Do you think it was a good change to nerf that?
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It takes a backseat to IRL context if an individual lets it. The cosmetic itself is not intrinsically racist and neither does it have a backseat connection to blackface. Its a cosmetic of Claudette's face. Aren't we all human? Aren't all the survivors in DBD human in their fictional setting too? Why does everything in recent time have to be so race related? Why can't we all just see each other as human instead of holding on to views that segregate us on anything?
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Absolutely. That was a game mechanic that heavily favored the killer over the survivor. Smartface is a cosmetic, not an in game mechanic.
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Wait wait wait, so you just want blind obedience from people about black issues but you don't want their thoughts or opinions because they are not black.
So because I'm not black means I don't get a opinion in this matter? I don't known, sounds like a dictator to me.
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no, it means you're not in a position to have a say in a decision that dictates whether something is racist or not because it's an issue that doesn't affect you or your demographic
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This always reminds me of those "discussions" where (usually) white people, try to argue that the N-Word is not Racist. Look, you might not think it is, but you also aren't the person who has centuries of painful history to be reminded of.
Do you argue with women whether or not randomly yelling "Hey Sexy!" (or many worse things) at them is sexual harassment? Do you argue with disabled people, using R*tard or a ton of other words isn't harmful, cause it might not have been the original intention of that word? Do you argue with non-white people, that they aren't allowed to see any kind of racial slurs are harmful, if there is any kind of chance, that the person using them didn't mean it? We can continue this with all kinds of marginalized folk, but I think you get the point.
Yes, a white person can have their opinions on racism discussions. We might also have useful things to add at times. But simply said: We are not the ones to decide if something is racist or not. Going "but not all black people think it's racist" has (with very rare exceptions) nothing to do with caring about those peoples opinions, but is about weaponizing their voices to support YOUR point.
And on the whole "sounds like a dictator to me."-thing: On the off-chance that this is not a bad faith argument, but you honestly mean it: Please look up the Tolerance Paradox. "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance."
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Saying that not all black people think its racist or that they all don't think alike is a fact. Its not weaponizing anything. I've said before that the definition of racism is changing in the minds of people everyday. If were now at a point that we can't discern fiction from reality and allow the actions of a few trolls to cause so much outrage over a freaking cosmetic of a fictional character then we really have stretched the meaning of the word. Had the people who did harass others with the cosmetic not did those things would we even be talking about this right now? I highly doubt it. I didn't even know these cosmetics existed before the news of their removal happened and never once saw them in game in a match in the almost 2000 hours I have played as survivor. I never heard anyone complain about them until now or mention them in any way since I started playing the game. That is why this whole thing feels like a big overreaction and when things like this do happen it will cause concern and spark a lot of conversation.
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So... Do you feel this way, if so... why? You cannot honestly believe leatherface has anything to do with historical events? Is it not more offensive to exclude a demographic on the basis of their race, I find that so discriminatory, leeatherface is a fun character who can be enjoyed by all demographics, removing some because of an unrelated historical event is really awful. If you are not offended by leatherface with claudete's face and are simply speaking on behalf of others... please don't.
Also I know that this ties into people commenting racist phrases in the end game chat, but that is why the report feature exists.
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Feel like dbd and multiplayer chat in general should be opt in anyways. But for fans of the og slasher character it's a real shame that his multiple faces aspect of his character is being suppressed over attitudes and behaviour that are expressed irregardless what role or person someones playing. Leather faces masks never empowered racism.
A lack of punishment and poor disciplinary systems is your culprit. I guess its easier to make a token gesture? Then actually ban problem players and implement a functional report system.
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I didn't mean it in bad faith, I was merely trying to point out that the prosinful was kinda acting like one.
Also to elaborate, yes I do get a say in decisions, we all do. This is a game and this is the fourms we're we all voice our opinions and make decisions. For you to try and exclude other because the matter affects blacks only and nobody else makes you hurt your point about racist than helping it.
Racist people will always exist but excluding people who aren't racist, people who want they're opinions and decisions, get told by somebody else that they need to be quiet because this issue doesn't relate to their skin color are being racist towards the non-racist.
At this point the blackface mask can be alt-f4
But don't deny people from weighing in on a subject.
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Hey wait a minute I like your idea don't worry I m just going to use it to make a new leather face skin. That can of course be only purchased with auric cells. Fancy that. Behaviours devs probably.
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These are still isolated or regional cases which were blown up by social media like a lot of things these days. I don't deny that it happened, but I have never ever faced a Bubba with Smartface who went all racist in my 4.5k hrs of playtime. It is really bad that people are harassed because of skin tone (I'm not calling it "race" since it has a very negative connotation for me as a German) or gender. But it is NOT the right way to punish thousands of other, non-racist players who invested hours of Bubba matches to get these. These are the dark deeds of few bad people who now know they get attention and ruin everybodys fun by being racist.
I personally don't play Bubba, so I just "win" the 6k shards because I played maybe 2-3 matches with him (which is not fair at all).
Oh and one question: Do you really think these people will stop without the Smartface?
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I definitely agree with the idea to get rid of the claudette masks, that always struck me as a bit, uh, not good.
What I don't get is why they're removing all the masks. That whole getting free cosmetics by doing an in game thing was a fun idea. If they had just decided to remove the claudette masks and keep the rest, that would've been completely understandable. Too bad they're getting rid of that system as a whole though.
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