Hex: No one Escapes Death Rework
Noed can be very unfair to go against and gives out free Insta down even when the killer doesn’t deserve it. And it can negate your hard fought win. While on the killer side it’s not very interesting and fun to use either, especially when it’s cleansed faster than you’ll be able to utilize it. So with my changes I want to make it more interesting for the killer and fun to use while making it not as unfair on the survivor side. Since it’s the end game it means its the last showdown between both sides and that means you need to give all you got once more and with my changed Noed it will do that without giving anything for free to the killer.
Hex: No one Escapes Death
- -From Hex to Non Hex perk
- -Exposed status effect removed
- -Activates when last Gen got done
- -Successful basic attack will decrease the cooldown animation by 25%
- -Movement speed increase by 5%
This should balance it out a bit more since the killer has to work more for a endgame kill instead of just being given an Insta down which may be someone on last hook. And it will remove the whole finding noed because the killer facecamps with noed situation and the killer doesn’t have to fear loosing his perk without value. This version of noed will make it easier to rescue a survivor within the endgame while still not easy enough to just run at the hook like a headless chicken and getting away for free. You still need to have a bit of strategy in order to get the save. These changes will add more gameplay to both sides during the endgame.
Your thoughts ?
Comments
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A non-Hex Basic Attack Buff that activates during endgame could just as well be its own Perk.
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NoED is fine. This BS about 'undeserved downs' is a lie. So is it 'rewarding failure'. The Killer HAS NOT FAILED until you step off the map. End of debate. This is how the game works. Stop inventing fake rules for winning or losing.
Did the Killer find you? If Yes: Did the Killer hit you? If Yes: He deserved the down. The end.
This is a fact. It is unarguable. Saying the Killer 'lost' if '5 gens pop' is as truthful as the Killer saying 'I win if all 5 gens are not done in 7 minutes'; it's a made-up rule no one has to follow and that cannot be enforced.
And you can't balance a perk based on lies and made up rules.
So you're wrong. Factually wrong:
- It is not 'giving free downs' as it does not strike Survivors down where they stand. The Killer still have to find, chase, and hit them; literally the other 3 steps to killing a survivor.
- It does not 'reward failure', like some Survivors pretend is a real thing. The Killer has not failed until he can't kill anyone.
People need to stop inventing literal lies for NoED and just accept how it works.
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You literally just said the perk unrelenting but with a speed boost. Instead of genrushing, break totems. There's a dozen perks and items that show you the location of totems. And boom. Killer has no NOED perk to activate
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Man, i understand if you are sick about NOED discussions.
I understand if you do not find this proposal appealing, neither do i.
But you can't keep saying NOED isn't OP.
It is a perk that is something you need to take into consideration even if it is not present like DH, BT, DS and UB.
It is something you need to play around the whole game like ruin or DH.
It is something that a team of SWF like Otzdarva, Ayrun, Dowsey and JRM are worried about all the time when they play.
IT IS VERY STRONG at least, but probably OP! And i am main killer! Main killer that like endgame build but i do not feel comfy playing NOED because i was able to kill 2 people with noed WHILE I WAS LEARNING NURSE AND NOT ABLE TO BLINK!
First step is accepting we have an issue, come on!
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It is a perk that is something you need to take into consideration even if it is not present like DH, BT, DS and UB.
That's the POINT. It has to be played around,even when it is unknown. You even name other perks that work this way.
It is something you need to play around the whole game like ruin or DH.
You just said this. Are you trying to pretend this is a separate point? Again; that is the point of the perk.
It is something that a team of SWF like Otzdarva, Ayrun, Dowsey and JRM are worried about all the time when they play.
This is the same point you just made 2 times before. And, like the other 2 times; this is the purpose of the perk.
First step is admitting NoED is fine. You made 1 point, and made that 1 point 3 times to make it look like 3 separate points. On top of that, that 1 point you made is the literal reason for NoED existing; Survivors HAVE to play around it and 'do bones' because they don't know if it exists. It slows down gen speeds just by existing.
And when Survivors don't do bones & slam gens in 5 minutes? They get NoED'd for their greed.
Risk vs Reward; Do you risk slamming gens? Will you be rewarded with 0 NoED & quick escapes? Or will your risk net you a loss after 5 gens?
Do you risk doing bones & being found? Will you stop a NoED user? Or did you just waste time?
This. is. How. The. Perk. Works.
You have said nothing that makes it OP. In fast, you made ONE point THREE TIMES, and that ONE point is literally the point of NoED.
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Man don't try to fool me. I may not be native english speaker but i am not an idiot.
You know what i said, if you want to play dumb i am not playing this game.
Your objections are ridiculous, only telling me that this:
- It is a perk that is something you need to take into consideration even if it is not present like DH, BT, DS and UB.
And this:
- It is something you need to play around the whole game like ruin or Devour.
Are the same point and are perfectly normal is bullshit. These are 2 peculiarities of 2 different groups of overpowered perks but that are both present in only one perk: NOED
You can play and eat all the DS, you can't ignore Devour. At the same time you do not play like Devour is always present but you play like DS is always present.
The only perk that is both is NOED, you always play like he is present and you can never play around, you always have to play taking into consideration his removal.
Moreover the fact that a SWF of streamers with 5-6k hours each constantly is worried by this perk is the proof you are trying to defend your interest and you are not objective.
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- Don't ever balance based on 'streamers' and 'youtubers'.
- In English, you can say 'you need to take it into consideration' and 'you need to play around it' as the same thing, depending on context. By taking it into consideration YOU ARE PLAYING AROUND IT. English kind of sucks, sometimes.
- That said; I misunderstood, because the English language sucks sometimes.
- Yes, it IS perfectly normal, because that is, literally, how the perk works; you have to play around it, just like Dead Hard. Killers have to assume Survivors have Dead Hard or miss an attack, which can greatly extend chases.
What people whine about is NoED working as intended. I don't CARE if someone is a Killer main or a Survivor main. I don't CARE what some dude with a webcam says; I've been the dude with a webcam. Having one did not make me smarter than everyone else.
You said Otz, Ayrun, Dowsey and JRM 'are worried about it' whenever they play. So? They're worried about an unknown perk existing; that's how perks work. They are aware it may exist, and play around that info.
Them 'being worried' does not mean NoED is OP. It means they are aware it may exist. I don't recall Otz ever saying 'NoED is OP'. Because it's not.
Once again; you have given no actual points as to NoED being OP other than 'It should not do what it was made to do'.
It was made to force Survivors off gens. It can't do that if it has a tell. Know why? if Survivors knew it existed from the start:
- They would clear all totems, 100% preventing it's use, every time. It would become unusable.
- If they knew it was NOT in a match; they would just genrush, because there would be no NoED to punish them.
It HAS to be an unknown factor, it it defeats itself.
And it HAS to be a credible threat, or Survivors would ignore it & just do gens.
That is why it's not OP and it's working as intended. Because if it was literally ANYTHING ELSE; it would fail.
People need to accept this and move the hell on already.
Edited: For typos.
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- "Yes, it IS perfectly normal, because that is, literally, how the perk works; you have to play around it, just like Dead Hard. Killers have to assume Survivors have Dead Hard or miss an attack, which can greatly extend chases."
THIS IS THE REASON WHY it is OP! If it wasn't intended to work that way either was bugged or the playerbase was exploiting some weakness of the perk like trickster with blood favor.
- "Don't ever balance based on 'streamers' and 'youtubers'."
If they are all players with 7k hours and undoubted skill YES YOU BALANCE ALSO WITH THAT! I don't know why you shouldn't!
- "What people whine about is NoED working as intended."
If every criticism is whine you are in fault, not them!
- "I don't CARE if someone is a Killer main or a Survivor main. I don't CARE what some dude with a webcam says; I've been the dude with a webcam. Having one did not make me smarter than everyone else."
If you do not care of ANY other opinion or data that is not supportive with you it is YOU issue, not our!
- "Them 'being worried' does not mean NoED is OP. It means they are aware it may exist. I don't recall Otz ever saying 'NoED is OP'. Because it's not."
He said twice in both videos where he analyze perks. He said is strong as #########, he put the perk in the higher ranks and said it is not fair to play with it and it leads to undeserved kills. JESUS! MORE THAN THIS??? Should Otz ring your door to tell in your face?
- Once again; you have given no actual points as to NoED being OP other than 'It should not do what it was made to do'.
It is easy when people spend 2 messages explaining you several reasons telling "no real point!".
You are not discussing my motivations and why they may be wrong, you simply said they are not important for reason you do not explained but you do not need to explain because you do not care about any other opinion.
This is not discussing, this is playing dumb with me.
NOED should be a credible threat yes but considering its power it should be solved removing 1 or 2 totems, like ruin, like devour, NOT FIVE! WHY FIVE? It's the only perk that requires the removal of all totems!
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Do you have an argument for it being OP other than "you have to assume it may exist"? Because until perk loadouts are shown prior to every match, that's the case for quite a few perks, and really isn't that special.
Yes, you have to do 5 totems to stop it from activating at all, but only 1 or 2 to remove it if it is active. There is literally no survivor perk that can be removed before it activates, and no other killer perk that works this way either. As removing an entire perk from the game is a major advantage, it should take a lot of work to accomplish. I know if I could light 5 totems to remove COH before it activated, I would be happy to do so, not complaining that it's too many totems, and that's from the killer side where the time crunch weighs heavier.
If your argument is that Otzdvara says "don't use it, it's bad" then I can counter that argument by saying "Ohmwrecker uses it and says it's good". In English we call it an "Argument from authority fallacy", which is basically the idea that since 1 guy/gal says something, it must be true.
Fact is there are as many opinions as there are streamers, none of them have any special knowledge or authority, they're just people playing the same game.
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- Do you have an argument for it being OP other than "you have to assume it may exist"? Because until perk loadouts are shown prior to every match, that's the case for quite a few perks, and really isn't that special.
Kinda yes. First it seem to me that the fact that you have always to assume his existance is a pretty strong point in favour of the strength of a perk, second yes, as i said before i have other two that are:
You can't ignore him and keep playing the same way when it is revealed.
You can't "git good" because also very veteran players with a lot of skill can't face this perk.
I said these points already 3 times, people keep ignoring them...
- There is literally no survivor perk that can be removed before it activates, and no other killer perk that works this way either. As removing an entire perk from the game is a major advantage, it should take a lot of work to accomplish. I know if I could light 5 totems to remove COH before it activated, I would be happy to do so, not complaining that it's too many totems, and that's from the killer side where the time crunch weighs heavier."
Man, telling me that also COH can't be removed therefore NOED is fair... is dumb. COH is a cancer. COH literally forces killers to tunnel you until you are down because otherwise in 8 seconds all the job done is wasted.
I think that, if they want to keep COH this way they should allow killers to stomp a boon forever.
In my PERSONAL OPINION strong perks that must be considered the top and therefore must work as measure of the maximum power for a perk are like DH, DS, BT, Ruin, Pop, Devour. If a perk is blatantly stronger than these monster that perk is TOO STRONG!
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1. Yes, when it's revealed you have to play differently... And? How is that different from over a dozen other perks? At no point should you be able to "ignore him and keep playing" (assuming him is the killer).
2. Veteran players and newbies can handle this perk easily. Simple strategy. Note the locations of totems as you go, after the 5th gen, if you see NOED activate, either check them and destroy the lit totem, or just open the gate and leave. Problem solved. If you wish to ensure it never activates at all, you can even do that by pre-breaking the totems so it can't spawn in. So that's 2 methods of dealing with it. With the new boon meta it's even easier, as a totem that has been booned doesn't turn into NOED.
3. I usually use DS, DH, or BT for that example, went with COH because it's a totem perk, but still, my point stands. There is no survivor perk that the killer has the ability to remove from the match before or after it activates. There are an entire category of killer perks that survivors can remove from the match entirely, and 1 in particular they can remove before it ever activates, that's the balance right there.
4. NOED isn't stronger than any of the perks you mentioned, especially since unlike all of those perks, you can remove it entirely from the match before it ever activates. People want to make it out to be the most dangerous perk ever, but there's a reason it's never once cracked the meta in 5 years. A small speed boost + exposed status, on a perk that can be removed at any time, including before you ever see the benefit, just isn't that strong a perk.
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I would love this change. But according to the devs through their balance decisions, noed, dead hard and coh are non issues.
It is priority however, that we nerf Marvins blood.
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Now remove BT and DS while we are at it, LOL
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- 1. Yes, when it's revealed you have to play differently... And? How is that different from over a dozen other perks? At no point should you be able to "ignore him and keep playing" (assuming him is the killer).
As i explained SEVERAL TIMES, it is different because it is the only perk that
a) Force you to play differently and you can't ignore it
b) You always need to assume it is in play
c) You can't "git gud"
No other perk in the game have these 3 together.
You 2 always keep ignoring this, therefore you have no argument in contrast, simply you try to play dumb and fake you didn't read.
- 2. Veteran players and newbies can handle this perk easily. Simple strategy. Note the locations of totems as you go, after the 5th gen, if you see NOED activate, either check them and destroy the lit totem, or just open the gate and leave. Problem solved. If you wish to ensure it never activates at all, you can even do that by pre-breaking the totems so it can't spawn in. So that's 2 methods of dealing with it. With the new boon meta it's even easier, as a totem that has been booned doesn't turn into NOED.
This is NOT "handling it easily". You need to be in a cohordinated group, with precise perks and hoping it is not going to enlight the totem you never found.
This is a complicate and luck based strategy those streamers i said before weren't able often to cohordinate.
- 3. I usually use DS, DH, or BT for that example, went with COH because it's a totem perk, but still, my point stands. There is no survivor perk that the killer has the ability to remove from the match before or after it activates. There are an entire category of killer perks that survivors can remove from the match entirely, and 1 in particular they can remove before it ever activates, that's the balance right there.
Again, don't play dumb, all HEX perks can be removed, why now you tell me "there is no surv perk blah blah". If this point was valid then we have to remove every hex from the game.
Hexes are particular powerful perks for killers, should be compared with other hexes in order to understand IF they need more protection than usual.
Is Noed weaker than any other hex? No! It isn't! Hex like "crowd control" have a single shot, why NOES that is particularly powerful should have 5?
- 4. NOED isn't stronger than any of the perks you mentioned, especially since unlike all of those perks, you can remove it entirely from the match before it ever activates. People want to make it out to be the most dangerous perk ever, but there's a reason it's never once cracked the meta in 5 years. A small speed boost + exposed status, on a perk that can be removed at any time, including before you ever see the benefit, just isn't that strong a perk.
NOED IS METADEFINING! If you spend the game searching for all the totems and remembering the location it is pretty much influencing the whole game play! Man what are you saying?
Sure NOED is not breaking the meta! NOED IS PART OF THE META! The only reason it is not a staple on 50% of the killer is because it is embarassing for a skilled player relate on NOED everyone knows is a perk that allow you to obtain undeserved kills in the end even after the worst game.
Repeat, with NOED i was able to manage always 2 kills while practicing the nurse at rank 9 and not being able to blink. Spent the game missing the blink, in the end NOED activated, BAM! No brain, 2 kills!
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im Killer main with over 4K hrs and I always disliked noed, it always felt undeserved getting kills because of that perk. I want to work for it, which shows my skill but noed can just used by anyone. And when I played survivor and the killer did absolutely poorly because he was maybe lower mmr he still got 1/2 kills because of it. And that’s not really how it should be
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my changes are actually how noed was im early stages of its life, so it’s not too far fetched. But yeah these addon nerfes for nemesis are weird, they would make sense if they would part of it basekit and therefore nerf the addons
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It's been a killer carry perk for killers that cant chase since release.
The devs have no interest in removing the cheap hits.
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You should read it correctly before commenting, I wrote „Successful Basic Attack cooldown decreased by 25%“ which works like save the best for last Just without tokens and Without loosing any
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No he didn't. Unrelenting works for missed basic attacks but what he said is more likely just 5 stack STBFL with a speed boost.
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"a) Force you to play differently and you can't ignore it"
Just like ruin, stbfl, devour, and bbq. All require you to change your playstyle. That doesn't make anything OP
"b) You always need to assume it is in play"
just like bbq, DS, DH, and BT
"c) You can't "git gud""
Of course you can, the perk doesn't automatically transport every survivor to a hook, it doesn't show your aura, you can still hide and run until you find and break the single totem.
"No other perk in the game have these 3 together".
Except bbq, DH, BT, UB...
You can say the same thing as many times if you want, but it's still incorrect.
"This is NOT "handling it easily". You need to be in a cohordinated group, with precise perks and hoping it is not going to enlight the totem you never found."
Personally I don't find that I need help counting to 5. With boon totems lighting up across the map and through walls, it's even easier. Each map only has about a dozen possible totem locations, you don't even need a perk or map (though both exist and can make it even easier for 1 person to find all 5 totems) I only play solo (though my wife is learning now, so that may change in future) and can't remember the last time I saw a killer get more than 1 hook from noed activating. Of course, perhaps that's a different story at your mmr
"Again, don't play dumb, all HEX perks can be removed, why now you tell me "there is no surv perk blah blah". If this point was valid then we have to remove every hex from the game."
Yes, that's why I said entire type of perk. Noed is unique even among hex perks because it's the only one that can be removed before it activates at all. Doesn't mean that we have to remove them, but we do have to account for how easy they are to remove.
"NOED IS PART OF THE META! The only reason it is not a staple on 50% of the killer is because it is embarassing for a skilled player relate on NOED everyone knows is a perk that allow you to obtain undeserved kills in the end even after the worst game."
So is it part of the meta or isn't it? If a large portion of players don't use it, it's not meta. That simple.
"with NOED i was able to manage always 2 kills while practicing the nurse at rank 9 and not being able to blink. Spent the game missing the blink, in the end NOED activated, BAM! No brain, 2 kills!"
And with doctor, using just his base perks and unrelenting, my wife was able to 4k while still trying to figure out which joystick turned the character... Does that mean her loadout was op? Or did she just run into a bad survivor team?
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It's a beginner perk to help new killers learn the game and not just be genrushed out. At higher levels it's useless because it's easy to remove, and because a speed boost just isn't enough if you can't loop. Pretty much like Pig's traps, in that the first time you deal with it, it's stressful because it's new and unexpected, then you learn how to handle it and move on.
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I break Totems every game in order to stop NOED. I have no issue with the perk. I do however sometimes have people say I'm wasting time by doing so. Not sure why.
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Man, if EVERY GAME you break 5 totems to stop NOED from activation even when it is not in play you are literally conferming that it is a huge perk! Tell me another perk that require so much effort and attention in its prevention.
Someone here is also stating its weak! IF it is so weak why every game you remove 5 gens to prevent it?
Guys, i honestly think you are not objective, you like to use noed, you do not want i to be changed and you are going to negate the evidence in order to avoid it.
I quit. I do not care. You know why? Because i am main killer, i am not carrying NOED therefore i am 100% sure in my game there will be no NOED unless some strange archives.
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Just because we disagree with you, and have actually torn apart your weak argumentd for nerfing NoED, does not mean we are not being objective.
All you have said is 'it's OP because I think it's OP' and your 'evidence' is NoED working as intended and not being at all OP. So I think the only one here unable to be objective is you.
You don't like NoED so you're determined to act like it's OP, and you're unable to accept basically everything everyone has said to the contrary. You're so caught up in screaming disproven facts that you refuse to listen to everything everyone else has said. To you: NoED is OP and that's all there is to it. You won't listen to anyone who's proven you wrong repeatedly.
So have fun walking away. But don't think you're walking away because you're right; You're walking away because your arguments don't hold water.
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You never attacked my arguments. You always said that are weak but never explained why. You tried to ignore my points and to put all them together telling they are the same.
This is not discussing man, this is defending your little toy.
I do not care of NOED because there is never NOED when i play, I have no horses in this race, you have.
I am walking away because there is no discussion here, there is only people that have a toy and is scared of losing it.
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Your arguments are weak for a few reasons.
In your first argument You restated the same thing 3 times. Yes. You did. You mentioned 3 different ways that noed is a perk that surprises people and they have to assume the killer has at first... 3 ways you found to say this. Problem is. It's not unique to noed, it's literally how all perks work. You don't know what perk any side has, you have to play around the possibility of perks they may not have until you figure it out. You have to act like they may have the perk until you've worked out what perks they have in the match.
Your second argument was that a few streamers dislike it. That's 1. A logical fallacy (argument from authority) and 2. Doesn't matter and there are as many streamers who do like it as who don't.
Your third argument was that as nurse you were able to 2k a few times with it... 2k is literally seen as balanced by the devs, so that's definitely not the argument you think it is. Also without any information on your opponents, we just have some anecdotal "evidence" that proves nothing. For all we know you are at the very bottom of the mmr going up against players who just installed the game for the first time.
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