Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Unfun killer tactics are way too effective for little effort
I say too effective but you could also say they are overpowered, hence killers are overpowered.
Before someone comes at me that “Sluzzy, a 4 man SWF can counter those or good survivors can deal with it”. My answer: If it takes a perfect 4 man SWF to overcome something, there is a huge balancing problem.
One player should never, by default, simply win against an average team because builtin killer tactics are free and too strong. The devs might say it is a strategy, well I have an answer there too, it is an unskillful strategy that is too strong. The survivor side does not have a default unskillful strategy that gives a huge advantage. Survivors are expected to become and get a PHD from looping school before they can keep killers away for longer than 10 seconds. Casuals can’t deal with it and it drives away players. Stealth is almost non-existent so being seen by killers seem to be how everyone plays.
Now, I’m not about limiting killers. I believe strongly in big agency where players can play how they want as I feel that is contributed to DBD’s tremendous success but I feel like these killers strategies are simply too effective. When the game first came out, survivors were so much stronger so these killer strategies were warranted strong. But now that survivors are greatly nerfed over time, killers need adjustments. I am constantly facing killers winning because they camp or tunnel someone out of the match and the survivors are not compensated. Then in many matches the survivors give up because of an unwinnable way to win. The hatch and EGC mechanic are very unfair now.
Make the hook timer a little slower if the killer is camping. Make decisive strike cause the killer to lose the sense of sound so he can’t hear which direction the survivor is going after a strike. No scratch marks for 10 seconds after a successful strike. If the killer is stabbed, he could lose some of his senses for a little while. There is so much that can be done to deter camping and tunneling.
The Entity needs to help in these dire situations. If all four are slugged unnecessarily, why not give one a helping hand, especially at 5 gens still remaining. Is the Entity not feeding on hope or is that simply a lie? I am so tired of going into survivor matches and seeing steam roll and after steam roll. And these killers find it fun or would not want a challenge?
Decisive Strike was overnerfed and needs a buff now. It’s never been buffed, only nerfed. If it is actually labeled as an anti-tunnel perk, then it should be one. It’s not one. Meta killers ignore it and down them instantly again. It’s almost like a survivor with 3 perks and a tiny 5 second stun that the killer don’t even mind.
Not every game is a 4 man perfect SWF that can deal with these powerful killer tactics, there needs to be something done to help 96% of the games where it is overpowered. But done in a way that doesn’t make the perfect SWFs any stronger.
Comments
-
I’ve never heard you say your own name ever.
31 -
i really, really hate the fact that i agree with most of this post.
17 -
I missed these
4 -
Welcome to my profile!
I am a highly skilled rank 3 Dead by Daylight (DbD) player. If you have played with me, you will know I am highly skilled and maybe one day you can achieve my greatness at this game Dead by Daylight (DbD).
As a professional at this game, Dead by Daylight (DbD), I only play it and nothing else, to make sure my skill level is at its best at all times.
If I am killer and facecamped you it is because of one of the following reasons:
You used flashlight in a toxic way (Blinded me)
You pallet stunned me when I picked up a survivor
You tea bagged against me
You cleansed my Devour Hope totem
You finished gen in front of me before I could grab you
You hook dived and your teammate got away because of Borrowed Time (BT)
You play Blendette
You rushed gen too fast
You are using Object of Obsession (OoO), a very troll perk
As a survivor, I WILL make sure you lose with my high skill if you:
Use Noone Escapes Death (NOED)
Stay within the hook more than ten seconds (I COUNT!!)
Camp a generator
Try to 3-gen the Survivors (survs)
Play the Spirit
Play Wraith and uncloak while chasing
Hook someone in the basement as Leatherface
Use Iridescent Hatchets as the Huntress
You play Ghostface and don't get revealed when I am looking at you (Hacker!!)
Find me when I am hiding even when I use Iron Will
If you go back to hook after someone is rescued (G-O F-O-R G-E-N-S NOOB)
If you stick to these very simple rules of conduct in Dead by Daylight (DbD), everyone will have much more fun and maybe one day you can become as skilled as me.
See you in the fog.
15 -
Honestly it’s come to a point where I actually agree with sluzzy. What have I become?
13 -
"PHD from looping school" is going to be my favorite quote from you.
And i do have to agree that certain tactics are really hard to deal with as a solo/casual survivor.
7 -
Maybe someone got on Sluzzy's account?
8 -
That is... on point, actually.
Especially when you mention that EGC sucks. It is a pity that most people do not share that vision of ours.
4 -
If they would buff basekit gen kicking -> faster regression / some flat % removed with each, they could nerf camping / tunneling. They just need to make chasing other survivors / protecting gens more effective than camping / tunneling. So it will become a thing that will be done basically only when you pissed off that killer, or endgame.
But you can't really buff survivors with argument tunnel / camp. That is exactly same as you can't buff killers with argument SWF.
Both have same reason, if you buff survivors, there will basically be only camping / tunneling valid. Same for if you buff killers because of SWF, soloQ would go to #########.
It would be way better to nerf it and buff something else from same side. Mainly this way it's easier to balance it, then trying to nerf both sides.
4 -
Why do I find myself agreeing with Sluzzy more every post they make?
5 -
Woof. Okay, it's a Sluzzy post but I'm going to approach this genuinely:
- You're exaggerating. Find a better loop, or loop better. One specific video comes to mind - Otz getting looped for around 2 minutes on Nemesis, you can see this on his 'streak' video.
- Some killers have anti-loop tools. In these cases, leave the loop. Outside of a few problem addons on a few problem killers, there is always something you can do.
- EOGC was needed to avoid the endless standoffs that could be forced out by either side.
- Camping, in terms of facecamping, is indeed a problem. The bigger problem is that this can't really be fixed without breaking the game. Until then, bring Camaraderie. It basically hard counters camping.
- Tunneling is not a problem, unless it's off hook - which is what BT is for. It's the killer's job to wipe someone out early and assume control of the game, and the survivors job to distribute damage more evenly.
- Decisive Strike was not overnerfed at all. Pre nerf, it was an extra life. The stun is already sufficiently long that you can easily get away.
- A big reason why killers play 'sweaty' is the sheer nastiness of survivor groups when they win. Go and watch Otz's 'AFK 30 seconds' video, and you'll see what I mean. And that's versus Otz. Nobody likes being gloated at, and so mercy is a liability.
- By 'meta' killers, you mean 'Blight'. And by 'Blight', you mean 'Blight with AR'. Nurse can't do that, unless it's a 1000 hour monster with perfect gamesense. Huntress can't do that unless you are silly.
- Sure, not every group is a SWF - but some groups are. And as long as these groups exist, the game needs to be balanced to account for this. Welcome to a lose/lose balance scenario.
- Much as not every group is a 4man SWF, not every killer is a Blight with Tag and Ring. Those other killers also need to be able to enjoy themselves and win.
- The devs are introducing some changes to solos to help out. Let's see what happens with those, and reevaluate after.
Jaded?
29 -
Sluzzy usually makes pretty good posts. I agree with them a lot of the time (not sure if they are always serious, but still). 😆
I agree with a lot of this post as well.
7 -
tbh sluzzy has been making some good points in his posts..
4 -
People talking about themselves in the second person is not a very common occurance.
4 -
from the point of view of exclusively solo + nurse main, Sluzzy's posts make a lot of sense. it's why i had to double check a couple posts back if they play mostly solo or not, because that would be the difference between "doesn't understand how the game works" and "is frustrated at the neglect of solo survivor over the years leading to the current state of the game".
i dont agree with everything, obviously, but their posts are a lot... less meme-y, with that in mind.
4 -
We have been reading different posts, I guess... This one is not that bad, but still flawed arguments and ideas.
12 -
Why hate? Sluzzy is right most of the times, from the solo survivor point of view
I'll just reply to your second point: ah yes the "leave the loop" tactic against a 4.6 anti loop killer that effectively makes you reach another loop in time (and if that so, that you'll have to leave anyway??)
5 -
How much you exaggerate kind of ruins your points here. You greatly underestimate the strength of survivors and overestimate the strength of killers. I do agree with some of the things in this post but you need to stop exaggerating to be taken seriously. Some points you make are good but take this advice when you post more.
4 -
from the solo survivor point of view
This one is quite important.
Problem is that his way of "fixing" it ignores SWF completely, so he is just opposite of most killers who would want to nerf survivors, because of SWF ignoring soloQ completely. Exactly same bad approach.
7 -
I'm glad you are seeing my perspective better now. :)
6 -
With how the hatch doesn't spawn until the third person dying and the whole EGC, it seems so killer sided now. I don't like it. Glad we both agree.
7 -
They never said the game was killer sided. They said they agreed with some of the points
4 -
I love you so much Sluzzy
3 -
I agree sluzzy, we should make it fun to camp and tunnel! Maybe make it even easier with some music going on.
Such a shame its unfun for killers :(
5 -
I honestly never did. Ever since that dreadful day this mechanic was introduced I hate it.
5 -
Balancing is not gonna fix survivor's lack of game sense and skill.
You're describing bad teammates issue. People need to stop saying solo survivor is whole mess. It's not. The game provides all the tools (and one gazillion of second chances) to counter any and every killer.
11 -
Swf isn't "op" anyway. As they pointed out in the main post, "only a very coordinated swf" which is far from the *average* swf
3 -
Which killer?
Blight?
Not every killer plays Blight. And Blight is only really a problem when he uses a specific addon combo - which will inevitably be nerfed. There are plenty of things in this game which need to be nerfed, but BHVR always tends to move at a glacial pace.
Against any killer that isn't Blight (or a god tier Nurse), this strategy will work.
Some killers (Huntress, Artist, Nurse, Hag etc.) require you to play a little differently - and that's not a bad thing.
Also remember - BHVR balances around gross kill rates, not high MMR play. If Blight's kill rates aren't out of control overall, then he's fine. I don't necessarily agree with this balancing strategy, but it is what it is.
It gets a definite 'shows improvement' grade.
And now it gets marked down again.
8 -
You don't really need to be that good... I don't know what you consider average swf tho.
As long there is weak link, swf is not that bad, but what if there is not any and everyone can loop you for more than 60 seconds, most killers are screwed against that.
We had post from soloQ players tracking their escape rate and some had over 60%, which is really good for soloQ. So I can use same argument and say that not all soloQ players have problem to handle killers.
8 -
This.
SWF provides so many benefits in terms of coordination and information sharing.
- Calling out traps.
- Coordinating addons and perks before the game (welcome to 4x further hook hell).
- Calling out the killer location (an absolute embuggerance when I'm playing Mirror Myers).
- Coordinated bodyblocking.
- Coordinated sabos (people always forget how ridiculous this can be on some maps).
And that's just off the top of my head.
As long as SWF exists, this game will need to be balanced around it. And that genie is, sadly, out of the bottle now.
11 -
Blight is not OP as long as you dont hold W.
You see him humping car? Hold w as he will slide. Its not a brainer to counter his rushes.
SoloQ is more of a problem of crouch walkers, locker hiders, and those who i have no idea what they do, but definetly not gens.
Pressuring BHVR and get anyhow nerf to tunneling or camping.
Okay with me, but then disabled chance to exploit (body blocks, using same skins, etc). What will you give in a return? Longer time to repair?
I dont tunnel, I try to get 8H before starting sacrifices. What is an outcome? Bad manners on exit gate or getting called tunneler cos its not survivor problem to get sacrificed.
MMR is based on a kills and escapes. Seems a bit clumsy doesnt it? balance on 2K 2E but to climb up you need 3-4K.
Core mechanics is the biggest issue of dbd, yet all fingers point to us vs them
And with soloQ < killer < swf
core mechanics, maps, and BM which lead to “time to sweat”.
Killer fluctuate between mmr ranks. So…one game you dominate and other you get dominated. It is just a cursed limbo.
3 -
You don't need to be a perfect swat team.
Basic competency is all you need, add voice comms and it's even easier.
5 -
If you can't loop the killer for longer than you would gain time by running in a straight line after being hit then just run in a straight line, buying time is the counter to these stats if they start them with enough time on their side they win if they don't they lose, just run in advance, and loop well or waste time before you die well
3 -
This is a very good post. I agree with all of it.
3 -
All solo queue survivors who cry about camping definitely need help. That much is obvious. The ones who understand the game aren't really the ones crying though. Listen to them try and debunk doing gens. I wish I could tell you it was hilarious. But it actually makes me physically cringe so hard that I am not comfortable enough laughing at it.
5 -
Both sides exaggerate honestly
1 -
Man, Sluzzy never gets tired of posting bait do they?
7 -
Oh yeah totally. The height of comedy. Some threads are so exaggerated its amazing
2 -
I don´t agree. Even if it looks like i´m the only one in the thread.
So one player shouldn´t win against an average team? Its a 4vs1. The killer should be baseline as strong as the 4 players. If a single survivor is almost as strong as the killer, then this balance is far off. Sure, Killers have a strong unskilled strategy, but so do survivors. Current hold W meta can buy survivors an incredible amount of time. While the rest of the team ideally sits on a gen. Completing 3 gens by the time the killer gets his first hook has become something normal these days. Even for solo survivors, like me.
Stealth is non existant, because the hold W meta is so much more efficient. But apart from that, you can play the game in stealth mode if you want. Boon Shadow Step + Iron Will is a very powerful combo. If you haven´t tested it, i strongly recommend you trying it. Or you can switch it for Lucky break for maximum stealth. I´m sure you´ll love it.
Ok the myth that survivors were much stronger doesn´t hold well. Because back then, survivors didn´t knew what power they had in their hands. Stealth was meta, with ninja claudettes and darkest moonlight offerings. Did survivors get nerfed since then? Sure! But so did killers. For example, sabotaged hooks didn´t respawn back then. But killers adapted by using Agitation + Iron Grip. Which both were nerfed after hooks respawned. DS was used on the first down, but killers could dribble survivors to the hook and use Endurance. Both the amount of times a killer could drop a survivor aswell as Endurance reducing the stun duration of DS were nerfed and those are just some examples.
You constantly face killers tunneling someone out of the match. This actually falls under the category of "killers listening to survivors advice". Which was: "just apply pressure". Well turns out, tunneling someone early out, applies a ton of pressure.
Good thing that you mention the hatch and the EGC. Remember back in those times when survivors were stronger? Well the hatch actually would only spawn IF the survivors completed at least 2 gens. If they failed to do that, no hatch, no EGC. So the current version is much fairer for survivors, don´t you think?
DS was nerfed several times, because its so powerful. It actually robs the killer of a hook. Imagine you are about to finish a gen and the killer presses a button and your progress goes back to 0 and this up to 4 times... Doesn´t sound fun, does it? Your proposal of buffing DS would weaponize it again. Remember all those survivor montages where they get cool escapes and rescues because of DS? Those would come back.
Slowing down the hook timer, when the killer is nearby is a great idea until survivors start to run the killer around the hook. So it was tested, survivors abused it and the idea was scrapped. This is, why we can´t have nice things. Survivors REALLY shot themselves into their own foot with this one.
Its hard to believe that you see one steamroll after another. In one of your latest screenshots you were a red grade survivor. You don´t reach red grades if you constantly get steamrolled.
Now the devs plan on buffing solo survivors, because their stats showed that SWF has a 15% higher escape rate. So if this buff works as intended, the overall escape rate for solo survivors should drastically increase. Which then would call for a killer baseline buff, wouldn´t it? At least if they continue with the 2 kills, 2 escapes balancing. Which honestly needs to change. The game should be balanced around hooks (not hook stages) instead of kills. Simply because a camping killer, who got 2 or 3 kills because of this, would look strong on paper, when he actually only got 3 hooks. While another killer who got 8 hooks and 0 killers would look weak.
22 -
Thanks for letting us know.
6 -
You can't really remove this like no matter what'll happen people will still Tunnel and Camp as it helps the killer. Survivors have plenty of tactics that can help them finish gens quickly and as you said perks that help you with Tunneling and Camping BT or DS and when you say it needs a buff don't forget that DS made killers juggle the survivors back in the day to avoid the DS.
If someone is being tunneled or camp well do the gens beat the killer and that player could realize this isn't the greatest idea I should try for chases instead or they just wanna do it for the lols in there minds as a bunch of games have players do stuff that others hate. A lot of killers though mainly do it cause they believe you can only win by just camping and tunneling because of SBMM they constantly keep getting good teams that they just do this stuff cause it resolves around kills and not hooks or chases.
Just bring Kindred if you're playing solo and going against a camping killer if they're camping leave them that survivor's role has been chosen and now that survivor can either help his team buy sitting on the hook and waste the killers time so the rest of the team can do gens or they either quit/give up in the game making the killer have less pressure. Even than if they do that one good survivor is all it takes to loop a killer and the other 2 do the gens I've seen it happen many times from playing killer and survivor.
0 -
Oh, you wanted to know? I didn't read it either once I realized it was our lord and savior Sluzzy. It is not that I do not value their contributions, it is just that I have memorized their scripture and therefore I can kind of zone out during the sermon. Now you know.
6 -
Too bad. was actually a great post.
4 -
Yeah, it was top-tier bait. I love Sluzzy posts.
8 -
Now, I’m not about limiting killers. I believe strongly in big agency where players can play how they want as I feel that is contributed to DBD’s tremendous success
This is one part of the post.
1 -
Very unwise.
Its content is good and worth reading.
4 -
Facts
0 -
Poe’s Law strikes again.
1 -
It's actually amazing, dude. It's the same stuff this person and a handful of people always post, and it gets taken seriously time and time again. Mind-boggling.
5 -
What are these stupid reasons? Please tell me it's a bad joke. You can't be serious. If you are, sorry to say but you sound like a crybaby.
1
