Removing I-frames from DH.
How would you feel about removing I-frames, but make it possible to use healthy too?
So it's 100% for distance and kinda on same level as other exhaustion perks.
Edit: another interesting idea is to just replace I-frames with endurance stastus effect. So you would still be immortal, but killer would get at least something from hitting you.
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Nah, they can keep iframes and distance and exhaustion level. The issue is hit validation. As evidenced by the sudden surge of tears about Dead Hard after they added it. And those cowards won't add hit validation to vaults because they know how cringe it is.
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Or they can rework the entire perk because DH is stupid
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Let's hope that fix on PTB will help a little with it...
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So the part of DH that everyone hates most is the main effect?
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In my opinion, that's completely backwards- the problem with Dead Hard is that it has two strong effects; dodging a hit, and making distance to a loop. Having both is far too strong, so one should be removed (or, y'know, toned way the heck down). The question is, which one?
Well, DH to dodge a hit is counterable. Sure, if they use it after failing a mindgame it's rough, but if they're trying to react to your swing it's possible to bait it out and exercise patience- especially if you're playing, say, Wraith, who has a power-fake that can force the DH out.
How does one counter DH for distance? You don't. There's nothing you can do about it.
I'd rather it have the fair, strong but counterable effect, personally.
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I hate validation more...
This way DH wouldn't save you if you get mind gamed etc.
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Gotta get rid of the invincibility. It's uniquely exploitable to the hacking issue endemic with this game. Auto dead hard scripts are more common than you'd think. It's a vulnerability that doesn't need to exist.
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It would be better if the perk was reworked entirely, I think.
On that subject, I think all exhaustion perks (aside from Head-on and Smash Hit) need a lookover.
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How do you counter other exhaustion perks?
Except head-on, that is clear if you know about it, but SB, Lithe, Balance landing, Overcome etc. they are just perks to gain time.
If you would want to remove distance and keep i-frames, then you would have to buff a duration quite a lot and it would be just super annoying, you would also not be able to tell if he activated it or not...
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Doubt that, they would have to fix feedback first.
I just don't like to get punished for survivor's ping. Kinda same what survivor's complained about it before...
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Hey rework might be good too (not any ideas how atm), I was just thinking about simple change that wouldn't be that hard to implement, because it's just more likely to happen.
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Well, I don't want to necessarily remove the distance, what I want to do is make it less appealing to use it just to get to a loop. I've said it elsewhere, but what I want to do with DH is give it a cooldown period after using it where you can't interact with pallets or windows in any way.
Nothing too long, it's not supposed to actually hurt you if you're using it to dodge a hit and it's still fine to use purely for distance to get through an exit gate or to extend a chase by a small amount, but you can't just leap to a window and instantly vault it, or leap to a pallet that you can then immediately start playing around.
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Yes, I want them to do it. I double, triple dawg dare them. #ValidateVaults
Let's have it and balance the game once and for all.
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This would actually destroy DH more than just removing I-frames imo...
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I am going to have Bubba party so much if they do that. Can't get validated when they can't get unhooked...
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How so?
Obviously people would run it less because it wouldn't be OP anymore, but it'd still be pretty powerful. You can still dodge a hit, you can still dodge powers, you can still dodge into or out of range of various things... you just can't use it to immediately reset a chase at the next tile.
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The general consensus, to my knowledge, is that the main strength of Dead Hard is being able to be greedy with your chase knowing that you can use the extra distance to make up for it.
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Yeah, but you often can use it because of I-frames.
It would be harder to use without it.
And it wouldn't be possible to DH through killer anymore, also wouldn't work on Victor, ranged powers (unless you actually dodge it to side), traps.
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Basically only hackers would run it.
Noone cares about DH in deadzone, but it would be annoying if it wasn't possible to use to gain distance for pallet / window. Depends on how long of course. If it was like a second max, then you would have to plan ahead and use it early for that purpose, not just on reaction, so that would be fine I guess.
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I certainly wouldn't think it'd be that long- four seconds or so. Long enough that you can't dash straight at a window and take it, but short enough that if you dodge a hit you won't be punished on the loop you manage to reach while the killer's gaining on you.
Like you said, you should have to plan to use it.
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I dont think I would mind DH having a certain activation period, where during an X-amount of time(12 seconds maybe, it still has a 40 second cooldown that pauses if you run, yknow), you automatically dodge the hit(hackers do this anyway, might aswell make it a feature), but have a 3 second interfall where it needs to charge up(so hackers cant abuse it).
But you dodge the hit in the direction you're looking at. So if you're vaulting, you dont get any distance, just a dodged hit, no distance gained(the vault is the distance). If you're looking the wrong way, you are now out of position. Killers could even reduce distance gained by bodyblocking etc in that scenario.
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All other exhaustion perks can be countered by powers despite gaining distance. Blight can keep up, huntress, death slinger, trickster can all hit at range, nurse can keep up, trapper can herd survivors into traps on the other side of vaults/at the bottom of drops for balanced, twins can go for skill shots on fast moving survivors, etc etc.
There's tons of powers that can keep up with the speed from exhaustion perks if the killer is good but dead hard giving invincibility negates all that.
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Sure, the i-frames make it better, but to my understanding, the real power of it is to get that LITTLE extra bit of distance exactly when you need it to reach a point that will safely allow you to extend the chase that much further.
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Hit validation is causing DH to eat Killer's powers when it shouldn't - Twins and Nemesis in particular are hard hit by the latest change. This is not by any definition "fine" until the problem is fixed.
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So removing I-frames would fix that, right?
And it would have counterplay.
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Sure, but I-frames also protects you against ranged powers, traps, Victor and let you move through a killer. It's also way easier to use because of them and you can get away with using it on reaction.
It would be more risky to use without I-frames, at least around loops.
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Yes. You wouldn't be able to dead hard over traps forcing trapper into terrible lose lose situations, give yourself a 3rd health state on reaction to blight, victor, nurse, huntress, etc. No more dead harding into hooked survivors to give yourself enough time to unhook them without trading.
Dead harding for distance is obnoxious especially when you're playing an m1 killer but that's a bigger problem with the design of m1 killers and looping as a whole rather than dead hard. Dead harding for invincibility gives it a million different utility uses that ends up being the answer to everything in the game so hard people just expect dead hard on every survivor at all times now which is why killers never lunge unless they have no other choice or they're absolutely sure a survivor doesn't have DH.
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I wouldn't like that.
The infuriating part about dead hard is the distance to me.
The I-frames atleast have some form of counterplay by holdibg your swing. There is nothing you can do about the distance part except just accept that the survivor can greed all they want and still get away with it.
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Well, but it would be just for distance thing like other ex-perks.
It would remove all those extra effects that DH has unlike others. You would be able to actually hit players with your ranged killers and Trapper.
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Have it as you are healthy? Are you nuts? That would make me uninstall for good
No, Dead Hard needs to be gutted or removed entirely. Even without invincibility frames it's still going to be broken and used for distance.
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I think nerfing dead hard is a terrible take, I think it's fine in the game and extending chases is fine because that's what's fun about the game you know chases. Gen speeds need a nerf and maps need to be shrinked big time.
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This is easier to do...
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I hate the distance way more than the invincibility
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I mean nerfed dead hard wouldn't change much, people would just switch to sprint burst and you'd have just as much of a bad time if not worse. They would get pretty good at it too, you'd see most people 99 their sprint burst and you'd see the same people that complain about dead hard complain about sprint burst. It really would be even more of hold W gameplay for the win.
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All those walking whole game survivors... would be fun to see as a killer.
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I don't know... they could just use fixated, hide, do gens and leave. It's fun until you go against a high MMR team...
Besides sprint burst usually makes for more insane value man, I have done before an unbreakable into sprint burst into sabotage play, it allows you to do some super unexpected stuff. Quite a few times I have used my 99 sprint burst to get a otherwise impossible flashlight save or pallet save.
I would say we are lucky that sprint burst isn't being used more than dead hard.
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It's not used more, because it's way harder to use and it kinda limits of what you can do.
Also it's used on start of the chase, so I just think if that chase is worth even starting.
And argument: this perk can't be nerfed, because this perk would be used instead is kinda weird.
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You misunderstand me brother, I understand why it is not used more, it doesn't change the fact that we are lucky we don't see 4 SWF using it often. I would find sprint burst personally way more annoying on all 4 survivors.
More than anything I would love to see dead hard nerfed because of how overused and boring it is to see the same perk over, and over again. I think the i-frames and the distance you get from dead hard would be fine however if a killer could actually afford the extended chase. I think honestly that there is nothing wrong with having to chase survivors even more than usual because of something like dead hard or sprint burst or whatever as long as you can afford it, but you can't usually 9/10 times.
Very often in this game there will be 1 or 2 survivors that you can't afford to chase even once because it's a waste of time as you need to get someone out of the game to have a chance to win. More chasing should be encouraged and I think dead hard is better design than something like sprint burst ultimately where the killer has absolutely 0 power to do anything about it. Just hold W to catch up gameplay is not fun. So I think i-frames are fine on dead hard but the distance needs to be nerfed but it does ultimately mean that people will just switch over to other perks and the game will be the same as always which is why I think it would be smarter to allow this powerful stuff in the game but just make it so killer can afford having all this stuff in their games.
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What would be the reason to use Dead Hard over literally any other exhaustion perk at that point?
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Hit validation on DH is currently not fine. In some cases, it's causing issues due to a miss being halfway counted as a hit, like a Nemesis tentacle not breaking a pallet (which it's only supposed to do if it hits a survivor, which it didn't if the DH got validated) or Victor stopping short on his lunge.
Those still need fixing.
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You could still use it for distance, so often same as now. It just wouldn't ignore killer's powers like other ex-perks.
Letting survivors use it healthy would also be huge buff.
It would be used mainly, because it's super easy to use and it's not map dependant.
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Not being to DH over traps would be great. And honestly as long as you don't see it constantly anymore i don't really care what they do with it.
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Reduce to half the distance and slightly increase I-frames but just a few 0,1 secs
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The part I hate is distance mainly and when proyectiles are hit but dead hard says no but I suppose skill cancel skill.
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Create a permanent exhaustion state and make dead hard a 1 time per game use.
Removing iframes or distance would kill the perk. The perk might be stupidly strong but I don't think anyone wants the survivor meta to become even more predictable.
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Oh right and your change wouldn't kill that perk at all...
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So you just wanna remove DH from game? You don't need to do this. Just remove.
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I don't think it would. Initially bad players will stop using it because "the perk is dead" but good players would try to use it.
The value of 1 good dead hard cannot be underestimated. Sprint Burst will probably take it's place in most people's build, but the perk won't be dead.
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I'm not saying it wouldn't be more risky, but distance is still generally considered to be the most powerful part of the perk by far because it is the part of the perk that can't really be played around.
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It could if it was still possible to hit that survivor.
It wouldn't ignore killer powers. It wouldn't get you away after you got mindgamed. It would be possible to body-block you.
How do you play around Sprint Burst, Lithe, or Balance Landing?
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