COH nerf is going wrong direction
Problem of COH is infinite self healing with cost of 1 perk for the team, not 100% healing speed bonus. 25% nerf achieves nothing
Ability to self heal should be removed or very limited (like 1 heal per totem)
Comments
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I disagree. The infinite part is just what boons are supposed to do, not a design flaw- and with the healing speed bumped down, it'll already be a lot better.
I'd argue it's not far enough, not that it's not in the right direction. A cap on self healing speed following this and a few more tweaks to things like boon verticality would be the escalation I'd want to see after this.
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Just because the devs intend for something doesn't make it a non-flaw or balancing issue. COH is ridiculously strong. Self-healing should be 80% speed, anything else should be +40%
Boons also need cooldowns once they're snuffed, or increasingly longer blessing times each time.
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I'm not sure what you're referring to with that first part. I agree, but where's the relevance to this topic? The infinite re-blessing is clearly not a flaw, the idea of a back-and-forth where you keep snuffing and the survivors keep cleansing is a good one, the problem is that CoH is too strong and some totem spots make that a nightmare to actually try and do.
As for your suggestions, that might be a touch too far, but I can see where you're coming from. The problem is that you don't want it to be unusable without a full healing build, you just want full healing builds to be less absurdly strong with them, and that's why I think things like a universal cap on self healing speed is a better idea.
Not averse to a brief cooldown after snuffing, either, that's fair.
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Of course infinite reblessing is a flaw. Just because it's intended doesn't mean it's *right* or how things should work. The back and forth you talk about is fictional. You don't have the time to be snuffing totems over and over in a match. It just doesn't happen. If there's one boon somewhere you're already going to go yeah, you can snuff it once. If there's two or they're in a place that's inconvenient to patrol then focusing on them at all is game losing.
In that (regrettably common) circumstance the killer doesn't have any counterplay to the boon and the survivor has free infinite healing for their entire team. The risk/reward of the thing is heavily skewed. So yeah the conception of the perk is flawed. It hampers killers that are already suffering even more.
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I agree! Given that the totem spawn points aren't really laid out to accommodate for the boon totem mechanic, the back-and-forth counterplay has far too many situations where it doesn't really work. Of course, that would mean the spawn points are the problem, and not the fact that boons can be infinitely relit, so I'm not sure why you're citing it as evidence for your claim.
Also, you have to remember that CoH is not the only boon. There are two others, and those ones would be completely useless if totems weren't re-blessable.
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Make the self-heal the same as Self Care, and the healing speed bonus half of what it currently is. Problem solved.
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I agree but the devs WANT the boons are like this.
Infinite.
They clearly said that.
We have to accept this.... i hope in a new animation then because seeing the killer stomping on those little totems and the totems are still there... it is not nice.
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Honestly boons are just a design nightmare. Infinite teamwide resource at the cost of a single survivor's perk that the killer cannot effectively deal with is going to lead to issues.
The only reason Exponential and to a lesser extent Shadowstep aren't complained about is because their effects are situational and they are boons that require aggressive placement to get the most out of them. Meaning the killer will more than often have the time to snuff them out.
CoH does not require aggressive placement and it's effect is really good for what it is. Meaning it being infinite is an issue since the killer won't often be able to do anything about it. The only way CoH won't be an issue if the values of the perks are too small that it no longer becomes worth it to use.
Devs really need to rethink the idea of boons being infinitely replaceable if they want boons to be balanced perks that are engaging for both sides. Because that is impossible as they currently function.
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To be honest, this nerf is half of what I wanted to happen to CoH. The other change I wanted is a change to the Boon mechanic so that the killer kicking a boon makes replacing the boon impossible for a bit (30-60s).
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Boons and hexes should have been given the same treatment. Either let hexes be ignited again by the killer or make boons be gone forever if removed.
The least the devs could have done is let killers destroy the bones (removing them from the game) when they kick a boon. This would make it so that breaking a boon actually matters.
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A speed cut is exactly what needed to happen at the very least.
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devs shouldn't suppose to do it from the beginning, because that breaks the game.
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It really doesn't. You can just look at the other two boons to see that.
It's flawed, but it's not broken. It's actually a very good idea, so I'd like to see it working better.
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Killer main here. This is actually kind of good, even if there was better ways. Killer's work on a time basis; how much time they have vs how much the survivors have. With this they will take longer to heal, which not only refunds time back to killers (Especially those with very little time waste in the first place) but also gives a larger window to interupt the action, wasting more survivor time.
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Shadowstep certainly does break the game in some way, just people aren't good enough to abuse it.
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Again, it really doesn't.
Shadow Step is a perfect example of the current state of boon totems as a whole; its core effect is perfectly balanced, its secondary effect needs slight looking at but seems to be fine, and its main problems have far more to do with specific problematic maps or totem spots, not what it actually does.
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They never fix maps or spawns though, so only way to fix this is by fixing perks.
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The fundamental issue with fixing map spawns is that totems aren't designed around both sides needing to interact with them.
This results in one side getting totem's being fixed for them breaks them for the other side.
Example: Easier to find/snuff boons means easier to find and break hexes. Aka it fixes boons but breaks hexes.
Also remember how many normally good for the killer totem spawns ended up causing immortal boon totems because the killer couldn't interact with them?
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???
You can track boons via sound, it is not difficult, if you are near them, find them.
You can also see them if they previusly were hexes.
The issue with boons is they are too strong and snuffing again and again take away too much time.
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I know that but I was trying to prove that THEY were wrong about fixing maps would fix boons.
There is literally no way to fix maps to fix boons which was my point.
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maps need to be fixed but fixing maps will not help with boons at all. It is not an issue of map placement, it is a structural problem about time consumption.
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I feel a speed cut was never the answer and that capping heal speeds all together is the better direction.
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I thought either not showing the boons to other survivors and/or greatly reducing healing speed for other survivors would be a better direction to keep it strong for the person who brought the perk but less powerful for the whole team
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Unfortunately all of these Boons get abused by SWFs too. 1 bodyblock and a surv you needed to kill can disappear. 1 organized team and you'll never have a slug again, even though Oni and Twins all but rely on it.
I don't know how they can tell me Pig is fine coz of her kill rate (guaranteed they only show across all MMR coz next to no Pig ever makes high MMR) but also completely ignore every stat and fact that shows boons are too strong
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How on earth is it a good idea to give the killer more objectives and force them to defend the entire map instead of a group of 3 or 4 gens? You really must be a surv main or a casual killer if you think infinite boons is fair.
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Also how do you figure my change is not strong without other healing perks? It's plenty strong, it's free self-care for all at 30% higher speed lol.
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Let's take Circle of Healing out of the equation for a moment, and focus solely on the other two boons, which I personally believe are much more balanced.
In order to use, say, Shadow Step, you must be in its radius, and so must the killer. It provides a little benefit if the killer is on the other side of the map, but if you want to use it to its fullest, then the killer has to be close enough to notice that you have it and then hear that it's active. In that scenario, the killer can down you (assuming you don't play well enough to win the chase, which is aided by but not guaranteed by Shadow Step itself), and then use that downtime to go snuff your boon. Once they do that, you now have to spend another 14 seconds setting it back up again- a GIANT net loss of time compared to how much time the killer invested in taking it off the battlefield for a moment.
Similarly, even if you do manage to evade them, they now know your boon is there and can at least force a situation where you're either down one perk or you're not on a generator for those 14 seconds.
If the killer and survivor must both be in the boon's radius for the effect to do anything, infinite boons aren't just fair, they can be more of a benefit to the killer than the survivor, if the survivor plays poorly or the killer plays well.
So, where do the problems pop up? They're twofold, in my opinion. One, verticality and totem spots that weren't designed for ease of killer access put a wrench in this, I do think those two things should be changed, and two, Circle of Healing doesn't require the killer be near you, and so it is much harder for the killer to snuff it out a lot- but since we've already covered why the concept of infinite boons in general is balanced, I do still think it's possible to bring CoH in line, even if its design will still have it be the strongest boon because it doesn't require the killer be nearby.
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I wouldn't call 2.4 more seconds to a self care and barely over a second for altruistic heals much of a nerf
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