Unfun mechanics need to be slowly removed from the game, 1 by 1.
Comments
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I think Bubba’s facecamping does needs to be addressed, even with BT you still can’t escape the hook.
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Unless you are in a basement or in a completely empty place bubba can't down you if you have BT without tunneling.
Facecamping bubbas are the low skilled bubbas that face low skilled survs.
Are they a lot? Yes they are quite a lot but sayng that every bubba is a camper or that bubba can't be player other than facecamping is wrong.
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The more I hear, the more confused I am about the bot Bubba's you seem to find.
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1st : i am the bubba that knocks.
2nd : if your issues are the camping bubbas maybe i am not the one that is playing with bots man.
3rd: if camping bubba is so OP why high mmr and tournaments aren't filled with camping bubbas?
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1) Okay
2) He gets his 2K, we get a 2E. It's boring and unfun. It seems like you've just been playing against some poor competition.
3) Because high MMR doesn't exist anymore and you see plenty of facecamping in tournaments.
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I never said every Bubba was a camper.
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1) And do not forget
2) If a camping bubba gets on average 2k he is not a good bubba and he is not facing good survivor either. A Medium bubba. That camps because he is lazy or frustrated of maybe bubba isn't is main.
A noob camping bubba against noob survs on average goes for 3k. A competent bubba that decide to facecamp for god knows why vs competent survs on average is 1.5k. Sometimes 2, sometimes 1. If you want more you need to chase.
Competent survs require 1 minute to understand it is "camping bubba situation" and to change their strategy accordingly.
This is my PERSONAL EVALUATION, not a statistic.
3) What do you mean "high mmr do not exist"? In tournament they camp a lot WITH OTHER KILLERS because camping with bubba is an overkill.
If you are good you know how to camp with any killer.
The point of the whole discussion now has become that every bubba is a camper and bubba is a problem that need to be addressed unrelated with camping itself.
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I’m literally only saying bubba camping needs to be addressed... everything else about him is fine.
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I think camping in general should be addressed ad an issue. Making camping less time effective and gen rush more difficult every killer will stop camping.
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Well facecamping is being looked at. Hopefully whatever the devs come up with will work out.
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For now addressing fc meant "creating perks that make going away from the hook appealing".
Obv this is not working because a camper simply is not going to run those perks.
If you are a camper or you simply want to camp you are not going to use No Way Out.
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Best change possible, if Bubba stays in or around basement when two more survivors are hooked there for too long he goes into his fury that he does when he hits a wall and automatically leaves the area.
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No. In no way should control be taken away from the Killer to make Survivors happy.
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I'm a killer main don't worry, I only play survivor when friends want to play with me, that would just be funny to see lol
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I am actually really interested. Also, do you have the kills vs escapes for these games? Edit: Just saw you posted the pie-chart. Was there no none-facecamp-bubbas?
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On a side note... Because survivors have no counter to tunneling-off-hook-till-dead, unless they have Decisive Strike unlocked and equiped and because tunneling-off-hook-till-dead is available to all killers, I do think a watered down version of Decisive Strike should be basekit for surivors.
Basically basekit "Decisive Strike" is something, that can only be used during the 2nd hook and only if the killer has hooked you and no one else in between and is de-actived during EGC.
This means regular Decisive Strike still has purpose but doesn't feel absolutely needed because there is a watered-down version basekit.
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Decisive Strike is not basekit because you are not SUPPOSED to have a direct perk against a strategy basekit.
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Why would that make any sense. Every killer has the ability to tunnel-off-hook-till-dead. Why should a survivor have some type of counter? Survivors have counters to everything else, why not this?
This isn't something that only occurs with certain killers or certain perks, it is available to every single killer.
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Because tunneling is a strategy that is intended to exist and the game is balanced around that? If you want to have a tool to deincentivize it, the point is you have to put on the perk for it. It is not something you are supposed to have by default. That's like asking why Unbreakable isn't basekit. You aren't supposed to have an anti-slug mechanic basekit. Same thing.
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I find them fun :)
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First thing to be changed should be "killer strategies". If theyre gone, we could see if players are even able to learn the proper gameplay or not, and take action according to that fact. Before this is done its merely band-aid fixing on the game. But to be honest, the devs are too scared to take action. Its already year 6 and they still refuse to do the needed work.
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Pretend you are a developer, not a killer-player or a survivor-player, but a developer. In a PvP game, you would not want one side to access to a strategy that allows that side to win, without allowing the other side to have a way to counter that strategy.
There are survivor players that don't have Decisive Strike. They don't have Laurie Strode, they don't have enough shards to afford DS from the shrine, DS hasn't shown up in the shrine, or they haven't moved far enough into the bloodweb to even get DS.
From a developer's viewpoint, how is that even fair for those players. They are forever going to play at a lower level of play just because they don't own a perk. A perk that is the only counter for a strategy available to every single killer from the get-go.
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The counter is built into the strategy itself though? It means you are ignoring and not pressuring any of the other survivors. That is just flat-out throwing away free generator progress. Doing that recklessly against better survivors is a massive time loss, because you end up with hyper-lopsided situations like none of the other 3 being hooked even a single time. Other than that, there is nothing wrong with doing it strategically to gain or regain pressure in specific situational scenarios where it is the best possible play.
Also, Borrowed Time is on one of the base-game survivors. That combined with taking protection hits works fine enough as well to delay the killer even further.
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I do yeah. I also have the NOED rate for Bubba and in general. I'll compile the Kills and Escapes and respond in a separate comment.
Also here:
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Skill isn't the determining factor, it's literally owning a perk.
You can take a skilled survivor team that doesn't have BT and DS and tunnel-off-hook-till-dead almost as easily as you could a non-skilled team. If you have the survivor hooked in a dead-zone, that survivor is going down a few steps from the hook and being rehooked is guaranteed.
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That's absolutely insane, facecamp Bubba is used 7 times more than none facecamp Bubba. Do you notice the same thing with Trickster?
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We did not notice the same with Trickster.
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What sucks, is that with the right perk load-out, you are almost guaranteed to get an average of above 3.0 kills a match with face-camp Leatherface.
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On average, there were 2.97 Kills in games where Bubba's facecamped. Apologies, put a 0 in where I shouldn't have. In 'normal games' we saw a Kill Rate of 2.2 when it came to Bubba.
Would you like me to separate that out into NOED vs non-NOED?
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I wasn't around this game back then, but every time I see videos of it I find it remarkable that the game used to look so much better. What happened?
To OP: if you don't like doctor that much, simply run calm spirit every game. I do, and it's more useful than you'd think thanks to that scourge hook perk and Spies seeing more use than it used to. Otherwise as soon as you hear the shock start just book it in the opposite direction. Or, walk from where you screamed. It's a snapshot and if you don't leave scratches it can be difficult to find the survivor after depending on where they are.
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Nr1 it shouldn't be possible to get free hooks in genral with one shot killers by just doing nothing
Nr2 just straight up no
Nr3 are you kidding me nurse is the most interactiv killer in chase bc unlike the most killers you cant just camp god pallets and say easy game
Especially without addons and actual wallhacks is nurse by far easier to beat than blight in every single possible way
Nr4 that should be the case only for the first suvivor if its pne of the comp bots who always tunnel the first one out the game it even should be able to use it twice but otherwise no
Nr5 no just delete mmr
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>The doctor's AOE reveal scream. This mechanic breaks the fundamental tenets of the game.
literally the point of the character
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This thread is just proof that some people will try to remove anything they subjectively dislike by claiming 'fun' was a reason. It's hilarious. 😂
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He does not force a 2k, if you run in to try to save the survivor getting face camped you yourself are the reason it became a 2k. Otherwise, he can only force a single kill by doing so.
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That's mathematically wrong.
Only three gens get done by the time the first Survivor dies on hook in the best case scenario. 120 seconds for the full sacrifice and it takes 80 seconds per gen.
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You're uh, forgetting that people don't spawn in hooked and camped. Killer still has to find, chase, down, and hook them. And grouping up shaves time off the later generators.
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So most Survivor teams are perfect?
All you're telling me is that a 4-man SWF can beat it, if they get good RNG.
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I'm saying that the best case scenario as you said isn't 3 gens. On average, and especially for solos, even more so if they don't have Kindred, especially considering how people become weirdly altruistic against reckless facecampers, 3-4Ks are pretty often because people make bad calls (or don't have enough info to make the best calls). Which is why I think stuff like Kindred to some extent should be basekit. Then people would not have the fault of not knowing killer is camping, and can thus just power out generators.
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cool, i'll release a killer that has wings and can fly across the map and swoop down and hook survivors in its claws and fly them to a hook.
if anyone complains --> LiTeralLy ThE poInT oF thE ChaRaCteR
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Skill issue
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Except you described an OP idea against the literal point of Doctor; to cause screaming.
Seems like you're just salty you lost to a Doc and want to claim he's op. 🙃
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It's the literal point of FlyMan. To fly.
LiTeralLy ThE poInT oF thE ChaRaCteR
Doctor design is idiotic and whoever approved it helped to introduce another anti-fun killer into the game that breaks one of the core aspects of the game - the search for the survivors.
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The 'literal point' made by someone who's missing the point.
The game stopped being about Hide & Seek when the Survivors got 50 second chance perks, plus SWF comms. A 'hide & seek' Killer would get 0 kills in the current meta if the game still worked the way you want it too.
Gens are done in 5 minutes; the Killer does not have the TIME to hide & seek. Not to mention aura-reading perks kind of negate that, too.
But, I've also noticed all your 'unfun mechanics' are Killer nerfs. Which makes this thread basically 'Remove every Killer that beats me!' whining. Like most unskilled players.
Why get better when you can scream to delete what beat you? And, like all unskilled Survivors, you insist something as subjective as 'fun' is a good metric to demand balance changes and scream slippery slope fallacies when you're challenged.
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How about we also make Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, Soul Guard, Mettle of Man, Adrenaline, Calm Spirit, and Iron Will all base kit, so survivors never need to worry about the remote possibility of dying.
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Hide and Seek Killers :
Michael Myers
Ghostface
Clown
Demogorgan
Wraith
Hillbilly
Huntress
Oni
Pig
Trapper
Blight
Trickster
Artist
Nemesis
Twins
Executioner
DeathSlinger
Plague
Spirit
Bubba
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All of those killers have to search to find a survivor. But please, keep posting more lies about the game "not having hide n seek anymore"
The Doctor and Cenobite are really the only ones that have basekit Killer ability/power and reveal where survivors are. Cenobite is annoying but his power does not bother me as much as Doctor does. Doctor's ability reveals people through several layers of walls and above/below the floor he is on in a giant AoE. It's beyond stupid and should have never made it into the game.
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You can’t be serious.
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I can't help but notice you said "for both sides", but only proceeded to list things that annoy the Survivor side. Feels like you need to back that claim up a bit, chummer.
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Not quite true. Killers with basekit tracking include Doctor, Cenobite, Artist, Legion, Twins, Plague, and Demogorgon.
If we expand that to be not just literal tracking in the form of screams, Killer Instinct, and in the case of Plague the increased audio cues, but also things like addons for aura reveal and more sideways tracking like sound notifications for power interactions, we also have Wraith, Huntress, Trapper, and Nemesis, at least that I can remember off the top of my head.
Additionally, maps have been gradually lightened, which further moves hide and seek into the "occasional tactic" barrel, and stops it from being the point of the game.
The game simply isn't about stealth anymore. Sometimes it works, but it's not a tactic you can expect to work every game against every killer- because some of them were designed specifically to make you change your tactic, like Doctor.
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I was really trying to take you seriously until you made this list that literally includes killers with wall hacks.
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Sadly it's kind of turned into gen-rushing simulator, I don't think generator time has been touched for years even with the inclusion of new massive maps. One survivor just loops the killer for as long as possible, throwing as many pallets as they have to and if you don't have the requisite slowdown, anti-loop, mobility kits necessary to catch them quickly before you lose 3+ gens then you're looking at best 1k.
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Youre right. Unfun stuff has to go.
Nurse's fatigue is unfun. remove it.
Shocked survivors can still throw pallets and vault, validate it and make shock instant.
Trapper traps being highly visible is unfun. Make them transparent from survivor perspective.
Pig has too few rbt and they suck. UNFUN give her infinite zraps and make it lethal at the exits again.
Billy nerf was unfun. Unclunk him.
Limited evil within is unfun.....
Just calling everything unfun isnt gonna make a good argument.
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