Unfun mechanics need to be slowly removed from the game, 1 by 1.
Anything that is ANTI-FUN, that is, that makes playing the game not fun, should be looked at. For both sides. The aim of game play design should be to create abilities and gameplay that does not break the core tenets of the game and is not overly stressful that it ruins the game's FUN aspect.
- Bubba's chainsaw able to facecamp, insta down AoE multiple targets, and has many charges, AND can turn directions
- The doctor's AOE reveal scream. This mechanic breaks the fundamental tenets of the game. The hide and seek aspect of a HORROR game is completely nullified with this broken, stupid mechanic. And it even penetrates upper or lower floor levels. It's completely stupid. The killer doesn't have to search for you, you remove the tension and fear of the killer looking for you.
- Nurse blinking through walls. Again, another stupid ability that completely breaks the core tenets of the game. This time, the CHASE aspect. The chase aspect of a horror game is the most tense, exciting parts of this game. And Nurse completely ruins it with this stupid mechanic that allows her to simply teleport through obstacles, pallets, and even walls. This is ANTI-FUN written all over it.
- Decisive Strike should be CORE on all Survivors. Being tunneled out of a game is one of the most frustrating, anti-fun things in this game.
- The game needs to stop being about kills/escapes. A kill should be worth a lot of points, and an escape too, yes, but the game needs to utilize all of those amazing stat tracking that we ALREADY have.... and combine everything into an overall GRADE and Title Score for each Survivor. So even if you die, you helped your team succeed and escape as a martyr hero... which is a core thing in all horror movies... the hero who takes on the killer so others can get away. People would not feel as bad for dying anymore.. when they get a good score and the title "Heroic Survivor" for achieving a lot of points to contribute to the match, even if they died.
I have a few more to add to the list.
Comments
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- Bubba's ability to force a 2K+ needs to be addressed, as does his ability to facecamp.
- No.
- Yes, Nurse is OP, but no.
- Absolutely not.
- Yes.
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I agree with everything except for the Bubba part. That is also a no.
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His ability to facecamp is completely unfair.
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1: Bubba's facecamping is a problem, but the rest of the things you just listed are what make him a fun killer, because he's actually pretty good when played more "normally" while being a killer you can dodge and evade if you're on the ball. Those things are fun!
2: This game hasn't been a hide and seek game for a loooooong time. It's more about the chase and has been for quite a while, since long before I started playing. Being immersed and hiding in a corner just doesn't work out for you all the time anymore.
3: Nurse has issues with her core design but I would have to disagree that it's because she's "unfun". It's more that she has a chokehold on balance for a lot of perks and core mechanics, unless you're going against a god Nurse she's plenty interactive.
4: I understand where you're coming from on this, but DS is the wrong call. Something like Borrowed Time would be a better fit for a basekit anti-tunnel measure, with some tweaks, which is apparently what they're looking at!
5: The emblem system already rewards players who perform well but die, so I'm not sure what you mean by this one?
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The fact that you can face camp as Bubba to guarantee a kill and then go on to get even more kills with a cheeky end game build revolving around NOED, Bloodwarden and the like make his face camping potential absolutely unfair.
I want to like this killer but as soon as it's obvious that they're just looking to face camp and guarantee easy MMR for themselves I lose all respect for the design of this killer.
I don't even have a problem with camping in general mind you it's just the fact that you can do nothing against Leatherface should he choose to do so without giving him free kills.
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Every killer can face camp sir.
Thumbs down to this list!
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Not every Killer can force a trade.
Nobody plays Bubba like a regular Killer. Almost everyone just facecamps with him because its an easy 2K+
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Not sure if this is just a troll or not
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Bubba's camp need to touch. It is almost imposible to save teammate without hook trade. This is so stupid mechanic.
The only change i wanna about Bubba, nerf him camp game.
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Anything I don't think is fun or causes me to lose should be removed from the game.
Its called "me balance" it balanced solely for me.
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Man, you only proposed to NERF HARD the killers you hate and to BUFF HARD all the survivors in a whole.
Don't you think that MAYBE this will kill the game?
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So you agree SWF needs to be removed?
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A lot can. Maybe not as easily. But VERY, VERY close. Also, “nobody” is a STRONG generalization that I’m not comfortable with. Maybe you’re at different MMR than me but Mid to high mmr bubbas typically can go either face camp or no face camp with the latter being played more at least in my experience.
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NO! They are the only funny thing in play the survivor!
We need to implement balancing mechanics around that, the game should give the killer advantages or more BP if he is facing bigger SWF.
The highest should be a team of 4, then a team of 3 or 2 teams of 2, single team of 2 and the lowest is 4 solos.
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No
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BP doesn't make 4 survivors telling each other how to think more "fun" for the killer.
You can't just view the game from a survivors perspective and expect killers to keep playing if you keep removing anything they can do.
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I NEVER said we should remove killer options. Where? Where did i said that?
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I've taken stats for almost 300 games. Perhaps you'd be interested in knowing how many Bubba's facecamped versus how many didn't. I just got to 300 games.
Also, no, Bubba is the best at facecamping. What other Killer has such an easy and unpunishing instant down?
Post edited by Pulsar on0 -
I play bubba. I never facecamp unless:
- The survivor played in order to spoil game flaws, i fc a survivor because he run an infinite for 5 gens.
- In the endgame if i cannot defend the exits.
- If there are at least 3 things that can be defended while facecamping.
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What do you consider an 'infinite'
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The main house in Haddonfield is infinite if you do not have a perk that can deal with windows and if the windows pop in the right places.
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Then you weren't around when actual infinite's were a thing.
Myers House is annoying but there's worse structures on Haddonfield and they still aren't infinites.
Here's an actual infinite from back in the day.
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6 : increase generator time to 240seconds.
Now it's actually healthy.
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DOUBLE POST.
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I know about the old infinites. The point wasn't that current infinites are worst.
The point is: you said that all bubba fc. I said it is wrong. Not only i do not camp but i have met many chasing bubbas.
Bubba is very valid chaser if you manage to learn it, fc bubbas are the ones that are not skilled. Moreover skilled survs do not give more than one kill to a camping bubba.
It is also satisfying to see survivors run away from gens as soon as you approach instead of keep working on them until the last second. Noone want to mess with his chainsaw.
The killer that i more often see fc regardless of skill level is Ghostface honestly, because he also is immune to kindred, but i do not play him.
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First off, Ghostface is terrible at facecamping and Kindred does work on him.
Secondly, Bubba can literally guarantee two Kills by facecamping.
It takes 120 seconds for one person to die, worst case scenario, three gens get done. He gets one more person and hooks them before two more gens get done. The others leave, easy 2K.
If he had perks, it could be worse. Corrupt will buy him time at the start, combine that with NOED and No Way Out and he could easily get three if not all four.
Here's the breakdown of Killers seen in 300 games. Facecamping with Bubba is extremely popular. Also, poor Twins.
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Bubba can take rancor and pretty much guarantee 3K 80% of times too.
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Is that statistic made by you? On how many matches? Do you understand that a statistic made only on your experience is pointless? This is exactly how statistics DO NOT WORK!
Your personal experience can maybe invalid a statistic but cannot make one!
BTW GF is a pretty good FC unless you think a FC must only stay right in face of the survivor. It is not really necessary. With veil of night kindred do not work. Also discussing GF is out of topic.
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Lmao you proved yourself wrong
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I am proved being wrong BUT you are not gonna explain why.... but you write LMAO because this has the power to convalidate any point in any discussion.
I not even discussed the sentence "It takes 120 seconds for one person to die, worst case scenario, three gens get done. He gets one more person and hooks them before two more gens get done. The others leave, easy 2K." because there is such huge amount of ignorance inside it that it is embarassing.
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Fun is subjective and literally irrelevant to balance. No.
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And I haven't slept in 30 hours, what's your point.
I'd explain, but I'm on mobile.
Also, there's no ignorance there. Those are facts. It takes 120 seconds for someone to die. 80 seconds for a full gen. 3 people split up get 3 gens done by the time one person dies.
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Sure! IF the bubba was able to catch a survivor in ZERO seconds this will work!
You do not count that bubba must:
- Find the 1st surv
- Down the 1st surv while he is predropping every pallet
- THEN 120 seconds
- Hope for no hook exchange in the while with the use of BT and DS, it depends from the situation, if you hook in the basement is not gonna happen, if you hook near 2 jungle jims can happen.
- Find the 2nd surv
- Down the 2ns surv
At this point usually the gens are done, the exit open, the other 2 survs are ready with torches and BT.
Kill 2 skilled sruvs with a facecamping bubba is very hard.
It works with not skilled ones, but with them it is also easy to kill 4 of them.
NOED is a different situation. I think NOED is cancer.
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You can't hook exchange and do gens.
I will literally come out of retirement to prove you wrong. I will run a facecamping Bubba experiment
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Uh. You're forgetting that generator repairs will be progressed before the first hook happens. It takes time for the killer to come find, chase, down, and hook the survivor, during which people are already working on generators. Also if they group up afterwards, the last 1-2 generators go way faster.
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You have 4 survs. One got spotted and chased, the other 3 finish the gens.
Then 2 of them do the lasts and the third with BT tries to exchange with BT, scount the area, if the area is fine go for the exchange.
If the area is not or go and help the gens or go to an exit in order to open as soon as the gens are done.
The good survs requires 5 seconds to understand if a noisy chainsaw killer with a huge terror radius is camping or not.
With NOED is toxic? Well yes... every killer is, even not blinking nurse with NOED can facecamp better than any bubba. Facecamping do not require movement and being able to own with one it is more flexible than using a chanisaw.
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And one more thing to add, if we face camp with bubba, we will probably not take a rank up, because we all know that camping a survivor make we lost a lot of points, that's no point for a good killer play bubba like this, people who face camp with bubba are probably frustrated or just want to have "fun" is not fun for the survivor... but when a killer is totally bullied by a full team, that's not fun for the killer, for me is totally normal a facecamp bubba in this game when we have a lot of bully squad around.
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You're also forgetting Survivors aren't perfect and they need time to travel to gens and find them.
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You gain MMR for Kills.
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Also BHVR declared 3k as win condition, so pretty much guaranteed to have 2-3k is very good.
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How many games will make a good sample size?
I'm gonna test this.
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I mean, yes? I never said that isn't part of the time matchup between camping and cranking out generators. But unless a survivor is going down like 10s into a chase, the net difference is generally in favor of repairing, because it takes far less time to find a generator and start repairing than to down, if the survivor isn't terrible. Even with a good Bubba versus a good survivor, it really is not possible for people to go down quick enough to change that net difference without making massive mistakes in gameplay because of how hard windows and certain tile setups shut down his power.
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No man! You cannot test this not even with 1M of games.
Because the games YOU play are a minor, very particular part of the games that are played.
You have X MMR, you play in certain hours and not in others, you play from a certain country.... and so on!
If you want to do statistics right you must collect data from other players!
This is what BHVR is doing with MMR.
If you, for example, are a streamer with 1k of viewers you can ask 20 of them you trust to collect and send data to you.
Usually newspaprs do statistics with 1k-2k examples btw.
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Okay.
So what you're telling me is you want proof but any proof I offer is invalid.
Got it, no use in arguing bye
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No man. I do not want proofs. I have an opinion. You have an opinion. We can discuss but it is not mandatory we agree at the end.
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They said it kind of badly, but they do have a point. The scope of data one single person can collect is way too limited. When factoring in data into balance discussions, there needs to be data to account for all possible factors, to study why exactly it is resulting in what it does. For instance, is it specifically at high MMR? Low MMR? Against solos? Against SWFs? With a specific add-on or perk combo? So on and so forth. It is just realistically unfeasible for one person to have all of the data that is needed to see where the source of the problem is.
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Nobody has done that, not even BHVR.
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I'd be happy with a mode that is only to play without perks from both sides.
One offering maybe. But it would be one offering for both sides. If all survivors choose one, there are only 25% chance per person.
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You cannot have an analysis 100% precise but the more data you collect, the more they are diversified the better results you will have.
Sure only one person can't do it because you will have all the possible filters on.
- The MMR of the person
- The country he is connecting from
- The particular timing he can play
- The build he likes to run
- The bias about the opponent's behaviour
It is a very false collection of data.
BUT what is the point you are trying to prove? That all or at least 90% of LF are campers?
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'Everything unfun needs to go!'
*Literally only lists Killer things that should be removed*
Ah yes, the ancient game development art of 'Cater only to one side's fun'.
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