Why people think MM instakill add-ons are fair?!
They are not. I am sorry, but how fair is just coming to someone, who you might not even chase or see whole game and just delete them out of the game?!
"But it takes sooo long..." - No, doesn't metter. You can equip like 4x full slowdowns.
I don't get why people are okay with these add-ons. Also, some people even will complain about Survivors only defense againts it = locker. Wow.
These add-ons are super outdated and should be reworked.
Comments
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From what I know there's a general consensus that Tomestone Piece is busted and should be changed.
The reason Judith's doesn't get the same thing is because it essentially requires another iri addon to function and both increase the time to stalk by a large amount and it makes Myers slower so you essentially need Play With Your Food stacks to do anything with it.
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We are complaining about Myers?
Really?
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Tombstone Piece is wacky and needs a change.
However, literally every time I've seen a Judith's + Fragrant Tuft of Hair Myers they've taken a huge L.
The last one I saw ran four slowdown perks. Iirc, it was Corrupt, PGTW, Pain Resonance and Dead Man's Switch.
He didn't even pop Tier III until after the gens were done and he only got a Kill because Kate t-bagged him at the Exit Gate. Which, let me tell you, was pretty hysterical.
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Tombstone piece? Yea it need one more condition to mori. The other one is fine no matter how salty you may be
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They did it with Iri head huntress. from 3 to 1.
Now you never see it.
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I think most people agree that it's busted. The only reason it doesn't bring more of an uproar because it's an addon for arguably the weakest killer in the game.
Imo it would be fine if he could only mori survivors who have their evil drained.
So it punishes the ones who feed him and not the one random survivor that sees him for 5 seconds and instantly dies
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*Talks about one type of add-ons / playstyle*
oMG hE iS cOMpLAinInG aBOuT wEAk kILLeR luL
Jesus.
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They only works in extremely potato survivors.
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Tombstone piece is OP and actually makes Myers decent, Tombstone itself only works on teams that aren't playing very well
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Every time the killer takes a bit of time to tier up my friend is like, "Does he have Tombstone???" I think Judith's Tombstone keeps it interesting.
Tombstone Piece needs a change.
That's awesome. I love surprise exit gate Tombstone kills.
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YES.
Survivors cry about NOED being unfair because "it gives kills you do not earn", and yet to Mori someone with Myers to have to spend half the game throwing. That is about as earned as it gets, short of a 5 stack Pentimento/Devour.
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Iri Head was just... pressing M2.
Myers Mori takes slightly more work than that.
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I'm all for killers having heavily variable playstyles. In fact. There should be addons like this on other killers too!
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Judith’s tombstone is fine as is and using lockers to evade it should be removed.
Tombstone piece is busted and needs a nerf.
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I just don't think nerfing one of if not the worst killer in the game is healthy for the game at all. And unfortunately the devs have no plans to buff Michael, so the add ons should remain until they do.
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So... HOW MANY MM did u seen in this weekend?
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It's all about fun and those memento is unique enough to be fun anyway.
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First off, Myers has got to be one of, if not, THE least powerful killer in the whole game. Second, while I do agree that the Tombstone piece is a bit broken, being able to take someone out of the match within minutes, the Iri Tombstone addon is by far one of the least powerful addons of his, only seconding something like the glass fragment which becomes completely useless when you progress to Tier 2. Even with a whole bunch of slowdown perks and PWYF, the Iri Tombstone is far from powerful.
It takes 3 times the amount of stalk points to get to Tier 3 for the first time with the Iri Tombstone, meaning he needs at LEAST 15 stalk points to get to Tier 3, and each survivor has 10.1 total, meaning he needs to basically fully stalk someone to the max, and then drain someone else of half their stalk points. At max stalking speed, he takes 6 seconds to gain roughly 5 stalk points, meaning that in order to get 15 he needs to stalk for a total of 18 seconds at 100% efficiency, and that isn't including the time it takes to find the second survivor required. To stalk at 100% efficiency, he needs to literally be right on top of you, at about 2.5 meters. Chances are, you aren't gonna be that close to him for the duration of him stalking you, the average may be something like 15 meters or more, which means he stalks at about roughly 67.5% efficiency, the max being roughly 40 meters at 10% efficiency. Taking all this into account, it isn't really that powerful, just break LOS.
There's also a dilemma with the addon. The Myers could bring the J. Myers Memorial page and stalk 25% faster, but then the tombstone isn't infinite and hardly even makes it worth bringing, or he could bring the Fragrant Tuft Of Hair, further increasing the required amount of stalk points by 10, up to a total of 25. That's at MINIMUM 2 survivors' worth of stalk points, and an extra half in there. Completely draining a survivor of their stalk points would take 12 seconds at 100% efficiency, or something like 24 at 50% efficiency which is likely going to be the average.
This sort of thing is exactly why it's so hard to obtain the Evil Incarnate achievement, because it just takes so long to get to Tier 3 with infinite tombstone, and even with 3 slowdown perks (only 3 because PWYF is essentially required because of the slowdown Iri Tombstone gives), by the time you get to Tier 3 there may be 1 or 2 gens left at best. And once you've mori'd two people, the last two survivors will likely catch on to what you're doing, and then they'll just jump in lockers to deny you your achievement.
Now compare that to the Tombstone Piece, which only requires 2.5x the amount of stalk to reach Tier 3 for the first time That's still at minimum one survivor's worth of stalk points, but is significantly more powerful because of the fact you can combine it with the J. Myers Memorial page and get it no problem. The fact that it completely sends you back to Tier 2 once you mori someone makes hair addons irrelevant and not worth bringing. You do get a penalty for killing someone with the piece but it's so insignificant because you can turn a 4v1 into a 3v1 very quickly, and the survivors can't really do anything against it.
That being said, if you're really having issues with Myers players bringing tombstone often, just jump into lockers if you notice it takes him a while to Tier up to Tier 3, or just do it to be safe. Yes, I know that's what people keep telling you, but it's really the only counterplay to it, vaulting windows and such is too risky, and you can't get mori'd while in a locker or on the ground, not by tombstone. I rarely see Myers to begin with in my games, let alone ones running purple or iri tombstone. If this sort of thing only happens to you occasionally, get over it. It may not be fun to play against since you don't even get a chance to get saved off hook, but it isn't like you're seeing it every other game, sometimes ######### happens.
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So far 3, 2 of them have these addons. Note: I play much more killer than Survivor .
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With Huntress you literally just pressed M2 and could down someone and hook them literally not even 20 seconds into the match. Myers takes significantly more time than that, even with just the Tombstone Piece. But regardless, Tombstone Piece does need a rework
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I think this would be a very fair change to it, but maybe make it somehow that once a survivor is fully stalked you immediately progress to Tier 3, regardless of how full your meter is. Because by default it takes exactly 4.9998 stalk points to Tier up once, and survivors have 10.1 total, so fully stalking a survivor and then going to stalk someone else to get to Tier 3 would make it very awkward to use and pretty much just kill the addon entirely.
That, or just make it so you can mori survivors regardless of whether or not you are in Tier 3 with the addon in place, but take a chunk of your stalk reservoir away, the same amount that would be taken from you when you go back to Tier 2 after mori'ing someone with it. I think this would honestly make it a very healthy change compared to how it works now. This way, like you mentioned survivors who were never stalked at all wouldn't be punished because Myers pops T3 on them and then Mori's them.
Another change that would make it slightly more fair to go against compared to the suggestions I gave, because maybe they could be abused somehow by Mori'ing a survivor and then popping Tier 3 in seconds on another, maybe I'd make it so if a survivor is within a specific range of stalk points left, you can Mori them in Tier 3, say, a range of about 1.5 stalk points, that way you can 99 the stalking on them specifically, stalk someone else a little bit, and then still be able to stalk them and actually Mori them because it doesn't require their stalk reservoir to be 100% empty.
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Can't we agree to nerf pig?
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Those add-ons are "fair" but unhealthy: survivors have no chase interaction with killer, they just get stalk and leave... or get tombstoned. Such an interactive experience.
Myers weakest killer of dbd? What the hell are you all smoking? Myers unlimited tier 3 and green stalk speed add-on is so good... you have built-in uncleansable noed (way before all gens pop). The other duration add-ons are pretty good also.
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Another thing to consider, tombstone games often result in ALL players depipping and ALL getting low BP. On top of being relatively boring matches in the most case. So you are not very likely to encounter tombstone matches to begin with.
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Anybody with two brain cells knows Tombstone Piece is just broken. It's ridiculously easy to hit T3 with it and Mori someone.
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A locker a day keeps the tombstone away.
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there are several ways to counter the instakill. always assume myers has the tombstone piece (if he gets to tier 3 quite early) and force him to grab/lunge at you by hopping into a locker, vault and holding onto gens.
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Just because you didn't see Michael, doesn't mean he wasn't watching you like a creep. The reason people don't complain that much is because it's difficult to get on good teams. Also he's so big and slow, can't even peek around walls, like GF can. Just have some situational awareness and don't let him stare at you like the last donut in the shop.
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And some people still complaint about that add-on being broken. 🙄
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My only issue is when I'm the last person to see him and he just pops tier 3 and insta kills me in our first interaction all game while the people who fed him just live their lives
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Taking a break from Pig.
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Judith's Tombstone is fair. It's difficult to use because it only really works with the other iri (which jacks up the stalk requirements even higher), has a speed penalty that requires a perk slot and even more extraneous chases to fix, and can be countered by playing smart and hiding if Myers hasn't seen you yet. It's also fairly easy to tell he has it because he'll spend a long time in T2 without trying to hit people - so even in solo, you can figure out when you need to pull out the tombstone counterplay. Unless 3 survivors feed him without making him work for it, there will be enough time to do gens to the point where you'll nearly be done with the game by the time he gets T3 off and most players can make it out the gate.
Tombstone Piece is busted. It's much quicker to activate and reliably lets Myers delete one survivor very early without a proportionate drawback. Two, if he's smart about it, and then he's an M1 killer with a 16m TR for the rest of a game that only has two other survivors in it. Though smart players will get in lockers once they realize he has it, the first kill is... basically guaranteed unless you're dumb about when you activate T3.
Judith's more or less requires him to stalk the whole team; Piece lets him instakill you the first time he sees you. Difference of needing 17.5 stalk points versus 30, IIRC.
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Sometimes it's best to let reasonable fun things stay. It's a very rare add-on, it has a requisite for judith's tombstone to activate. So it can be countered by playing smart. But people should allow fun since the gameplay gets monotonous at times, so it's reasonable since it changes up the gameplay. While judith's tombstone admittedly is not "balanced", it's a very rare add-on. It's not like NOED since that is a perk.
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The problem with Judith speed penalty was never that it applied when it other tiers. It literally hurts your ability to get close enough for the instant kill.
Also the main strength of judiths is that unlike piece you don't go back to t2 when killing someone but myers t3 is fairly short and with the mori animation and speed penalty you need survivors to throw to hand you multiple moris in 60 seconds. Which is why you only ever see it ran with tuft of fur to make the most use out of that aspect.
You basically might as well play piece instead because there's less drawbacks to it.
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In the entire time I've played the game, I've only had once instance where a Myers I had never interacted with showed up and killed me at the exit gate. The rest of the time, it was basically the same as the old Red Mori.
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And all of that equates to Judith's being completely useless in any actual competitive game.
Tombstone Piece isn't a common addon, and at least it actually does something.
There's also a general consensus that Michael is one of the "worst" killers in the game, so I don't see why it matters if he has one addon that's actually powerful. It also essentially requires you to equip another addon to increase stalk speed in order for it to be any more usable than Judith's, so it takes up two addon slots, plus at least a perk slot or two for slowdown.
And how often do you see it, after all? I'm a Michael main, and I have fifty-something unused Tombstone Pieces lying around; it's not a staple in any of my builds or in any of the major Myers builds that I know of. It's a fun thing to play around with, but running it is a gamble considering that you need a good bit of stalk to use it to gain a competitive edge, and it precludes running any other addons and costs at least a perk slot or two on top of that.
Your only hope in using Tombstone Piece to gain a competitive advantage is to run something like Lethal Pursuer and try to get a kill in before more than one gen pops (and even then, you have to fully stalk one survivor and then go find another one to stalk), and then you can only get two kills out of it, max.
Tombstone Piece is fine as is, and using lockers to evade it should be removed.
Judith's Tombstone is useless and needs a buff.
On the contrary, Michael got a huge buff recently, albeit not one that many people talk about. Vanity Mirror used to be a completely useless addon, but now it's even more busted than Tombstone Piece if you combine it with Dead Rabbit and M&A. No terror radius, plus X-ray vision without the speed penalty of using Cracked Mirror.
This was one of the most brilliant things they could have done to turn Michael into a competitive killer, and nobody seems to have even noticed.
Yep. This is what Tombstone Piece is really useful for. 99% it and grab one of the T-baggers at the exit gates. There is no better feeling in this world.
It's not any more broken than Dead Hard, CoH, or the baskits of killers like Nurse and Blight.
You do have to work hard for it, and it's not something you can use all game or run without risk. It's not something you see in every Myers game for a reason.
You can read my main points above, but Myers doesn't need a nerf of any kind. Half of his addons are complete ass, and the other half are so insane that they can actually make him useful.
I take issue with people calling him the weakest killer in the game because of Vanity Mirror, Dead Rabbit, and (to a lesser degree) Tombstone Piece, but nerf any at all and people like Otz might actually have a point.
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Is Tombstone Piece reasonably fun, though? Getting deleted at 5 gens because Myers stalked a Meg on a generator and found you next isn't particularly fun. There's virtually no interactivity, just hi, bye, and queue up again, better luck next match.
At least with Judith's, he typically has to get stalk off you. It doesn't create particularly enjoyable games, but it's balanced. Piece can be activated very early and ends up being a 'too bad' for whoever gets caught first. There isn't even a chance of counterplay unless you treat all Myers like they have instakills and jump in lockers (which will make you much easier to kill if he doesn't have them), because Piece is activated too quickly to really give off the telltale warning signs that you're facing a tombstone Myers.
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I like vs MM because of this add-on. Until I see MM hit Tier 3 and hit someone else preferably I run like a bat out of hell as soon as I spot Myers since I'm scared of the killer. I want tension in my games.
Also, when playing MM I find Fragrant Tuft to be a lot more rewarding than Tombstone. Tombstone requires quite a bit to activate and if your teammates play cautiously instead of tbagging in front of Myers it's a lot more difficult to pull off and you only get one kill with each usage.
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Judith's isn't balanced. If you're playing against any group of survivors that have had the game for more than a month, you're getting exactly zero kills unless they decide to be generous and let you slaughter them because they think you're going for the achievement.
Piece is balanced by the fact that you're banking your entire strategy on that one addon, since you're also going to need a stalk speed addon and a couple of slowdown perks to go with it. You still have to stalk multiple people, you still lose EWIII when you use it, you still can't use it more than twice even if you're lucky, and you're still going to get a low amount of BP and probably depip - all for getting an easy kill with one of the "weakest" killers in the game.
On the contrary, it's easy to know if Myers has a Tombstone Piece if you notice him stalking multiple people before hitting EWIII. If he had to stalk everyone for a minute and a half and his hand is open, it's Judith's. If not, it's either Tombstone Piece or Fragrant, and the counterplay is for both is mostly the same - get the ######### away. Tombstone Piece has an additional counterplay in the form of keeping a small distance from or dodging and ducking around Myers in order to trick or force him to go for lunges in order to get you down (he has to be right next to you and use a basic non-lunge attack in order to grab you - this can be exploited more easily than you'd think).
It might not seem fair if Myers just walks up behind you and deletes you from the game out of nowhere, but neither does getting sighted before the other survivors in a regular game and and tunneled to death, or coming across a good Nurse or Blight, or facing a Boil Over RPD bully squad as a killer. Sometimes good luck is the only counterplay in this game, and it's not like Myers is popular or that TP is even a popular build among those of us who main him. You really want him nerfed?
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I agree with you it may not be "fun", and or balanced when paying survivor. But it sure is fun for anyone who has played with those add-ons... At the end of the day in my view, I'm looking at this from a fun perspective. The add-on makes myers fun to play as. And even with the tombstone piece if the user does not play it right, said user will only be able to insta-mori two survivors. So the other two could make a play under the right conditions. And it's a purple add-on so it's still okay because of that.
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Because its instakill.
"You didn't chase me around for two gens to down me, so that's broken."
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Tombstone Piece needs a change, but Judith's Tombstone is fine.
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It's too bad vanity mirror doesn't really make him any better as you are now literally an M1 only killer with an aura read. Imagine if the next killer was that. No ability besides aura reading. They wouldn't be considered good. The change was also muted by Shadowstep releasing in the same patch. Couldn't even use vanity mirror for weeks because you would get multiple shadowsteps and be turned into a M1 killer with literally no power.
People also want a buff to his kit, not a singular add on that massively changes how he plays, pretty much transforming him into a different killer. When the devs feel like fixing Myers, we can consider nerfing him. At this point he's so bad and so much of a joke that I wouldn't even want to renew the license if I was the license holder of Halloween. Borderline harmful to the characters image.
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Judith's pretty much requires you to use Play With Your Food if you want a good chance to actually catch anybody once the addin fires. And Play with your food pretty much requires you to give up injuring anybody if you want to keep your speed boost. (And heaven forbid you actually get an obsession who actually knows how to remain out of sight and prevent you from getting the tokens) So Myers actually needs to give up a lot of pressure to actually use the add-in effectively. Which is why many of us just don't bother using it.
And good luck getting Tombstone grabs with these servers - we have a hard enough time getting gen grabs these days....
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I think you've got some of your ideas about how to successfully play Mikey wrong.
T3 is mostly an afterthought for people who main Myers. It can be useful to get someone in one hit, but removing that doesn't feel like any loss to the character. Even before Vanity Mirror became a staple in my Michael builds after its buff, I sometimes forgot T3 existed. His main draw was his lack of terror radius (including at full speed when M&A and DR are used). And while he's always extremely perk and addon dependent, you can completely break the ######### game with the right combos.
Aura reading isn't what makes that build powerful. It's aura reading plus no terror radius plus regular speed that makes him borderline unstoppable. There's so much you can do with it, and your first hit is always free. Camping also guarantees an extra down, and you can mindgame and end chases like nobody else in the entire game since you can see through the goddamn walls. On a map like Lery's, you might as well be a Nurse main with 5,000 hours. There's just nothing they can do.
My wider point, though, is that I 3-4K 90% of my matches with VM/DR/M&A, but I'm much closer to 2K on average when I try a TP build.
I've played a few games with Tombstone Piece since this thread started, just because I don't usually bother with it, and while I can consistently get at least one kill and usually two with the addon, I'd probably be doing just as well to play with a generic Hair Bow build. For all the extra stalking you have to do, you could get kills almost as quickly by hooking people normally, and everyone spends the entire game hiding once they realize you have it (or denying it by hiding in lockers if you time it wrong). It's not OP, especially from the killer's perspective. Vanity Mirror is much more abusable.
Side note: I think having multiple playstyles was always the point of Myers' design in DBD. That's exactly what they want.
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Yes,nerf it to the ground completely and give him nothing in compensation.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday Michael has several good addons. Tombstone Piece is just broken and unhealthy though. Plus, let's be real, nearly every Michael runs a stalking speed addon. As for Judith's Tombstone, yeah it's basically useless and flat out needs a rework.
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He's objectively among the bottom 5. You can do well with him but you can do well with a 0 perk blight, too, if you get bad survivors. Myers is bad, and I don't believe anyone who mains him really has much more authority than the 500+ streamers with tens of thousands of hours who feel he also sucks.
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There is nothing fair in this game, why is tp different?
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You wanna nerf his tombstone add-ons? Fine. But guess what his baske kit needs a HUGE buff if that happens.
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