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Recent End Game "Tech"
I don't know if a popular streamer invented this but I've encountered it a couple times today. I'm not sure if it's something that needs to be fixed in some way or if there are some counters I haven't thought of. It's kind of funny when it happens but also might be a bit broken.
A killer runs Noed, Remember Me, No Way Out, Bloodwarden. The killer opens one gate the second the gens are done. This starts the 2 minute end game collapse timer. The killer then stands guard over that exit with Noed.
If it takes 10-20 seconds for a survivor to touch the other gate handle, No Way Out activates for another 60 seconds. By the time No Way Out ends, the end game timer is now down to ~40 seconds.
Remember Me makes the 2nd gate take 32 seconds to open, giving a window of less than 10 seconds for survivors to escape through the 2nd gate before everyone dies to end game collapse.
I think if a fix is needed here, it would be making No Way Out activate when the killer opens an exit gate.
Are there any suggestions for how to counter this strategy as survivors, particularly without comms (solo queue)? The only thing I could think of is deliberately having someone get downed/hooked to slow the timer. But realistically, I don't think we can expect that kind of coordination in solo queue. And even with that strat, the killer could keep someone slugged until No Way Out ends, and then trigger BW.
Comments
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If they’re camping the gate, then just get rid of NOED and leave. Or sacrifice one person and the others get out before killer can hook in time.
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I wouldnt call that a tech or broken, thats using a build optimally. Not OP at all.
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-Snip, I have been outsped-
So yeah, if you see people doing it it's likely bc of the video posted above
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Everything Otz does becomes gospel to this place. If I am ever wondering where a weird trend comes from, I am just going to assume Otz at this point. Like... Bruh.
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Well in theory this shouldn't be a problem but dbd players can be quite.... slow. It's as simple as the person who hasnt been hooked yet to get down by the killer then hooked or left to crawl out, either way if they get hooked or downed it effectively extends the egc as a downed or hooked person causes the egc to be extended. Then use that time to find noed or wait out the 2nd door.
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I'm glad there's someone with the same name as a forum member on the thumbnail.
That's pretty funny
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Nice find ahaha
Damn, wonder if they'll see this thread
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The problem I have with it is it seems to go against the stated goal of the End Game Collapse not favoring either side. Also, how effective this build is against solo queue. Countering this requires some combination of:
- IMMEDIATELY touching the 2nd gate to start No Way Out's timer.
- Having all 5 totems cleansed (doubtful in most cases) or quickly finding and cleansing Noed. Even having found Noed, I imagine this could be done with Bubba to have an instadown on command.
It's such a small window of time for survivors without comms to realize what the killer is doing and be in position to counter it. I don't know if that's a reasonable expectation for a normal solo queue team.
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No way out probably shouldn't trigger if an exit gate is opened, that makes no sense
I had no idea it even did that. It sounds like an oversight to me
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99'ing a gate also goes against the goals of an endgame collapse 🤷 do bones.
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This strat is evil and I love it.
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I'm not going to bother responding to you anymore. I don't think you're commenting in good faith, or trying to see how this "optimized build" could be unhealthy for the game.
I guess Boil Over and hook locations didn't need to be fixed since they were just being used optimally as well...
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End game collapse is an entirely separate part of the game, if it isn't active then it isn't in play, so how can 99ing gates be against end game collapse if end game collapse hasn't started?
The Devs have ALWAYS stated that egc ONLY exists to make sure matches don't get taken hostage, that's why the killer can activate it.
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It is pretty funny, but might not be healthy for the game if it becomes a popular tactic.
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Could have guessed it was him lol. Props to him for the creativity.
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It shouldn't block a gate as intended if another gate is opened? That does not make sense to you? Really?
The only reason I ever suspected otherwise was because Behavior logic is not as consistent as normal logic. But the perk blocking gates is really quite straightforward...
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It definitely feels more like an exploit to me.
Opening the gates yourself as killer is a surrender button. It's saying "I'm done with this game, I'm starting the timer so you have to leave." It seems very unintended that a perk to block either of the exit gates from being worked on activates after one of the gates is already open. The only comparable situation is Blood Warden which the killer can use after opening the gates themselves, and in that case survivors have to choose not to leave for a minute so it isn't anywhere near as abusable like this situation of using both.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this was changed in the next patch to prevent No Way Out from triggering after the gates are open, but that being said, you can simply remove noed (as well as have the obsession open the other gate) and make this whole build worthless.
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Bad take on my end I guess, still dont think its stupidly broken.
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It's not a problem as you can just cleanse the bone.
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Why you thought opening the gate is a surrender button, though?
It doesn't immediately end the game.
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I love this. It's hilarious.
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That's why they added the endgame collapse, so survivors couldn't just remain in the game endlessly when they felt like either hiding from or bullying the killer. The killer opening the gate is only an option so that they have some way of starting it themselves if the survivors are choosing not to.
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There are a lot of counters to it.
-Go cleanse NOED
-Wake Up
-Obsession opens the door
-Get downed to slow timer
-Just run at the opened gate as a team
If the killer is hovering around a gate or they purposely tunneled the obsession out while seemingly having no perks, then you could assume they might be doing this and camp a gate yourself since they'll probably stop chasing once you get to 1 gen. Touch the gate right away and now their build does practically nothing.
It's one of those builds that's funny to try but it shouldn't really work that often. However, like most other weird builds it will probably end up working more often then it should because people don't pay enough attention, they just don't care, or it was used on newer players.
All this said, I wouldn't be surprised if they change how No Way Out works, especially if this starts to become more popular.
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Ok, so OTZ came up with a build to win the game in funny way. He is perfectly capable to win 98% of his games if he is trying hard, but just to make something new he tried this. It took him multiple attempts because there is so many things that could go wrong. So he basically instead of playing the way that would give him 98% chance of winnig, he chose way that works 15-20% of the times.
Yea BHVR do something this is unacceptable
Post edited by c0gnu5 on3 -
Killers finally don´t play gen slowdown meta aaaaaand people call it an exploit.
But tbh, this build is hilarious!
Have to try this myself.
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Except it doesn't take survs hostage. Two minute timer (four if someone gets down) and it's either they escape or they die. So no hostage situation
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This implies that the Killer is stupid enough to down someone.
@Topic:
I have played against a build like this (in fact, I was in the Twins-game in Otzdarvas video) and it was not really enjoyable. While I think the idea is somewhat unique, it turns the game into a problematic state in some occasions, since maximizing one aspect (in this example - slowing down the time to open Gates) can make it too much.
I would agree that a potential fix would be to disable No Way Out if the Killer opens a Gate. This would still leave the Perk in a decent spot, but would avoid situations like this.
In the game on RPD I was opening the gate and I knew that it was impossible to do once I saw Remember Me pop up. And I basically beelined to the other Gate once I was unhooked. Gate was open around 1 second after the EGC-Timer ran out.
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build is fine, stop crying
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Me too
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Killer: *Uses a combination of end-game perks.*
Survivors: It's an exploit! Remove it!
I swear, people are just straight up crying for nerfs to things that kill them, at this point.
The Killer makes a build that only works in the end-game and, because it works, it has to be an exploit? Such entitled thinking.
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It's meant to not favor either side normally, yes. When the killer devotes all 4 perks to SPECIFICALLY that, of course it would change that.
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It doesn't make sense because the perk isn't completely doing what it's supposed to imo
The perk is meant to stop both gates from being opened but if one gate is opened it decides it's only going to block one? That's why I think it's likely an oversight. It's a perk meant to delay the endgame starting except in the case of the hatch being closed.
I'm not saying it needs to be changed since it's an actual tech caused by a technicality - I just think it's kinda silly that it works like that and probably shouldn't.
It's cool that it does though, always something new to learn with this game
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Do you have any idea how many games it took for the build to work? Did you miss the obvious counterplay of simply rushing the gate the killer is camping? Did you miss the obvious counterplay of cleansing noed?
Just because a streamer does a cute gimmick strat doesn't mean it's something to panic about. It's a dumb build with clear and simple counterplay.
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There was also another forum member in the last game, kinda cool to recognize people from here in YT video lol
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Are people really calling this a tech lmao stop putting that word on everything. A tech is a technique involving a power or just gameplay to pull off a certain move. This is just a niche build focusing on trying to kill all the survivors at the endgame because they use an entire endgame build. Without comms, it is definitely harder but just doing noed and leaving is the easiest way lol
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(Boil Over/CoH) Survivors finally don't play BT, DH, Adrenaline, UB meta aaaaaand people call it an exploit.
Just because something is off meta doesn't make it balanced or healthy game design.
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I'm not sure counterplay of "literally just throw yourself at the killer and hope some of you can crawl out" is a good mechanic.
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But what it does is just activating endgame collapse and not immediately let all survivors escape, if it was a surrender button, it should be usable mid game and end the game immediately.
I'm mostly sure it is meant to be killer's advantage to some degree.
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Imagine intentionally ignoring the fact you can cleanse NOED.
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All it takes is for 1 person to take the noed and you can open the gate no problem. Though with blood warden it's a bit more tricky. Honestly If they get 4 stacks and remove the obsession I feel like they just won the match fair and square.
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It's 4 perks dedicated to an endgame build that needs a good map and the survivors to not be on a gate too fast
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Funny thing is that this end game tech is basically the survivor equivalent at waiting at the door and t-bagging the killer knowing the killer can't do anything about it. Except it requires the killer to be running four perks dedicated to making this play even work whereas it takes zero perks for survivors.
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Who called CoH an exploit? O_o
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Probably the one which can heal a survivor before cooldown ends, and it actually got fixed so it was a exploit for sure though.
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Oh, you mean when CoH stacked on the PTB. Well that didn´t make it to live.
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I won’t say that it’s a perfect build or strategy, but usually such builds are quickly nerfed by developers, because they see an increased peak of a bunch of these perks and make a fix, maybe not soon, but I think it will take 2 months.
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